UK Politics IV: Disraeli Gears

[Rufford]

So what are they trying to distract us from then? I can't think of much at the moment thats so bad that they'd need to do that.

I don't know either. Perhaps it is just to cover an absence of doing something.

A massive political story not being on the news for a day is now a massive news story in itself. Welcome to 2016.

[Great Nepal]

There is no pig.

So what are they trying to distract us from then? I can't think of much at the moment thats so bad that they'd need to do that.

...the job market, the interest rate cut, the fall of the pound, collapse of GDP forecast, fall of customer confidence? I mean good policy done for bad reason is still good but obvious attempt at distraction.

[Rufford]

So what are they trying to distract us from then? I can't think of much at the moment thats so bad that they'd need to do that.

...the job market, the interest rate cut, the fall of the pound, collapse of GDP forecast, fall of customer confidence? I mean good policy done for bad reason is still good but obvious attempt at distraction.

They arn't not big news storys anymore. Again, welcome to 2016.

[Vassenor]

'Countries with strong public service media have less rightwing extremism'

But clearly we need to get rid of the BBC because reasons.

[Ostroeuropa]

'Countries with strong public service media have less rightwing extremism'

But clearly we need to get rid of the BBC because reasons.

Using a left wing source to back left wing government intervention on the grounds that if you don't, the right wing gets more popular.

High voter turnout isn't really a good thing. Do you honestly think 80% of people know what the fuck they're talking about or care about the intricacies of government?

What drives them to the polls is hysteria and moral panics, something the left wing now thrives on since the rise of identity politics. I would wager turnout used to be higher when the right wing lost its shit about gays and whatever until the public wised up to why that was ridiculous too.

[Souseiseki]

'Countries with strong public service media have less rightwing extremism'

But clearly we need to get rid of the BBC because reasons.

Using a left wing source to back left wing government intervention on the grounds that if you don't, the right wing gets more popular.

liberals support many policies that make them look left-wing, however, they are not and never will be left-wing.

[Imperializt Russia]

You're generalising the long time unemployed a lot. Some can't work for a number of legitimate reasons.

Well, as you say so yourself, some. Most are just useless.

https://www.nomisweb.co.uk/reports/lmp/ ... eport.aspx
Of the 9 million economically inactive in the UK, over 2 million are students, over 2 million look after family members or are homemakers, 2 million are long-term sick and over 1 million are retirees.
7 million of the 9 million economically inactive "do not want a job".

What are grammar schools, and why were they banned?

It's a school with an entrance exam, intended for the brightest children to go to.
They weren't banned, but the construction or conversion of new ones were banned.

There are 165 of them remaining in the UK, out of more than 3000 comprehensive-level schools, but 69 of them are in Northern Ireland for some reason.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/06/theresa-may-to-end-ban-on-new-grammar-schools/

Theresa May is planning to launch a new generation of grammar schools by scrapping the ban on them imposed almost 20 years ago, The Telegraph has learnt.

In a move that will be cheered by Tory grassroots, the Prime Minister intends to pave the way for a new wave of selective schools.

Mrs May is understood to see the reintroduction of grammar schools - banned by Tony Blair in 1998 - as a key part of her social cohesion agenda.

The historic shift in education policy is expected to be announced by the end of the year, possibly as early as the Conservatives’ annual party conference in October.

It marks a major departure from David Cameron’s education policy, with the former prime minister repeatedly refusing to give in to pressure from backbenchers on the issue.

A government source said allowing new grammar schools was about “social mobility and making sure that people have the opportunity to capitalise on all of their talents”.

“If you’re a really bright kid you should have the opportunity to excel as far as your talents take you,” it added.

Tory MPs who have campaigned for the change for years were jubilant last night, saying allowing more academic selection would be “fantastic” and a “victory for common sense”.

Good. Absolutely the right decision.
Bring in more social mobility; let children regardless of their background thrive based on their skills, rather than bundling them together with the bad kids.

I tried to explain this to you before. Except for happening to go to the same school; bright, skilled children are not "bundled together with the bad kids".

They are already separated by classes tailored to educational ability.
Any "bad kids" they are "bundled with" are children of a similar level of intellect who just happen to be twats. They'd have made it into a grammar school too.

At my school, a relatively small school, each year group, for each individual subject, was separated into up to six "sets" (classes). X set, 1, 2 and 3 for the top-attaining kids, and Y set, 1, 2 and 3 for the lowest-attaining kids.
I was in X1 (top) set for all subjects except French. Can't remember what set I actually was in. I graduated with a qualification that didn't properly reflect what little ability I had - I specifically requested the foundation-tier listening exam (a tape recites the questions, you write in answers - functionally, a timed exam to boot) for French because I simply could not handle the upper-tier paper.

'Countries with strong public service media have less rightwing extremism'

But clearly we need to get rid of the BBC because reasons.

Using a left wing source to back left wing government intervention on the grounds that if you don't, the right wing gets more popular.

High voter turnout isn't really a good thing. Do you honestly think 80% of people know what the fuck they're talking about or care about the intricacies of government?

What drives them to the polls is hysteria and moral panics, something the left wing now thrives on since the rise of identity politics. I would wager turnout used to be higher when the right wing lost its shit about gays and whatever until the public wised up to why that was ridiculous too.

Hysteria and moral panicking doesn't get high voter turnouts. It forms a reliable voter base of hard core nutters, but it doesn't motivate people to go out and vote in large numbers.

Every American election is underwritten by "hysteria and moral panic" yet their turnouts are routinely garbage.

[Ostroeuropa]

Well, as you say so yourself, some. Most are just useless.

https://www.nomisweb.co.uk/reports/lmp/ ... eport.aspx
Of the 9 million economically inactive in the UK, over 2 million are students, over 2 million look after family members or are homemakers, 2 million are long-term sick and over 1 million are retirees.
7 million of the 9 million economically inactive "do not want a job".

What are grammar schools, and why were they banned?

It's a school with an entrance exam, intended for the brightest children to go to.
They weren't banned, but the construction or conversion of new ones were banned.

There are 165 of them remaining in the UK, out of more than 3000 comprehensive-level schools, but 69 of them are in Northern Ireland for some reason.

Good. Absolutely the right decision.
Bring in more social mobility; let children regardless of their background thrive based on their skills, rather than bundling them together with the bad kids.

I tried to explain this to you before. Except for happening to go to the same school; bright, skilled children are not "bundled together with the bad kids".

They are already separated by classes tailored to educational ability.
Any "bad kids" they are "bundled with" are children of a similar level of intellect who just happen to be twats. They'd have made it into a grammar school too.

At my school, a relatively small school, each year group, for each individual subject, was separated into up to six "sets" (classes). X set, 1, 2 and 3 for the top-attaining kids, and Y set, 1, 2 and 3 for the lowest-attaining kids.
I was in X1 (top) set for all subjects except French. Can't remember what set I actually was in. I graduated with a qualification that didn't properly reflect what little ability I had - I specifically requested the foundation-tier listening exam (a tape recites the questions, you write in answers - functionally, a timed exam to boot) for French because I simply could not handle the upper-tier paper.

Using a left wing source to back left wing government intervention on the grounds that if you don't, the right wing gets more popular.

High voter turnout isn't really a good thing. Do you honestly think 80% of people know what the fuck they're talking about or care about the intricacies of government?

What drives them to the polls is hysteria and moral panics, something the left wing now thrives on since the rise of identity politics. I would wager turnout used to be higher when the right wing lost its shit about gays and whatever until the public wised up to why that was ridiculous too.

Hysteria and moral panicking doesn't get high voter turnouts. It forms a reliable voter base of hard core nutters, but it doesn't motivate people to go out and vote in large numbers.

Every American election is underwritten by "hysteria and moral panic" yet their turnouts are routinely garbage.

One of the most major reasons people cite for supporting labour is the NHS, and the reason is because Labour is basically a party revolved entirely around a conspiracy theory.

The Labour party being a moral panic conspiracy theory party akin to "Obamas gonna take your guns!" for 70 years straight, a conspiracy theory that millions of labour voters believe.

"TORIES GON TAKE YOUR HEALTHCARE BY FUCKING UP THE NHS ONE SLIGHT REFORM AT A TIME SO WE DONT NOTICE."

70 years, hasn't happened yet. Also note, it implicitly concedes that labour is so absolutely shit at governing the country they can't counteract intentionally minor and subtle changes, nor thwart a generations spanning conspiracy to fuck over the NHS by boiling the pot one degree at a time.

Every bloody election.
"This is the one. This is the time they're finally gonna do it! They'll finally fuck the NHS up beyond repair and privatise it! Just watch! They've been planning for generations."

Because as we all know, the tories conduct their meetings anonymously in spooky costumes and speak in riddles.

Maybe you weren't implying UK elections aren't based around moral panics, and accept that they are.

If it's not the case in other countries, maybe that's a good thing, sure. But I wouldn't count on it. I'm not familiar enough with the politics of countries with high turnout to comment on whether they have less moral panics or not. But i'll point out that the BBC seems to be a driver of moral panics currently, so I don't see how.

[Souseiseki]

are just pretending the utter fucking of nurses and junior doctors isn't happening

scotland is going to be rolling in nurses while you suffer

[Souseiseki]

actually maybe wales will be fine as well and only england will suffer i don't know enough about how independent NHS wales is to comment

[Ostroeuropa]

actually maybe wales will be fine as well and only england will suffer i don't know enough about how independent NHS wales is to comment

It's pretty independent. I like the idea of decentralizing the NHS into various regions of England too. competition is key.

[Imperializt Russia]

actually maybe wales will be fine as well and only england will suffer i don't know enough about how independent NHS wales is to comment

I don't know if it's because of central cuts or if NHS Wales is just dirt poor, but they've been canning rural services lately.

If you live in Welshpool, you have to leave Wales and go to Shrewsbury for A&E or anything more than basic medical care.
Shrewsbury's A&E is being closed soon. What if you live in Welshpool? Fuck you, that's what.

[Philjia]

actually maybe wales will be fine as well and only england will suffer i don't know enough about how independent NHS wales is to comment

It's pretty independent. I like the idea of decentralizing the NHS into various regions of England too. competition is key.

Competition is what will kill the NHS by making it more centralised.

[Lexten]

actually maybe wales will be fine as well and only england will suffer i don't know enough about how independent NHS wales is to comment

It's pretty independent. I like the idea of decentralizing the NHS into various regions of England too. competition is key.

Why is competition key? Nobody chooses what hospital they go to for A&E or factors in the quality of the hospitals in the area when they move house.

[Ostroeuropa]

It's pretty independent. I like the idea of decentralizing the NHS into various regions of England too. competition is key.

Why is competition key? Nobody chooses what hospital they go to for A&E or factors in the quality of the hospitals in the area when they move house.

Because then you can compare outcomes and hospitals can adopt policies that are better suited to serve the public.

[Ostroeuropa]

actually maybe wales will be fine as well and only england will suffer i don't know enough about how independent NHS wales is to comment

I don't know if it's because of central cuts or if NHS Wales is just dirt poor, but they've been canning rural services lately.

If you live in Welshpool, you have to leave Wales and go to Shrewsbury for A&E or anything more than basic medical care.
Shrewsbury's A&E is being closed soon. What if you live in Welshpool? Fuck you, that's what.

It's more likely to be the Kipper mindset present in Labour Wales.
They can cut NHS stuff and blame the Tory government, right up until it explodes in their face and Wales decides to declare independence over a bunch of bullshit that never happened.

Thinking Labour *actually* supports the NHS, rather than uses it as a public hysteria issue, would be naive I think. This is NEW Labour, after all.

[Imperializt Russia]

I realise that my example was entirely incorrect, as obviously Shropshire's hospitals in England are obviously nothing to do with NHS Wales, except that patients in Wales are forced to use services in Shropshire.

The point, however, is rather that Wales' (mid-Wales, certainly) NHS is seriously under-funded and under-capability in rural areas.

[Irona]

I don't know if it's because of central cuts or if NHS Wales is just dirt poor, but they've been canning rural services lately.

If you live in Welshpool, you have to leave Wales and go to Shrewsbury for A&E or anything more than basic medical care.
Shrewsbury's A&E is being closed soon. What if you live in Welshpool? Fuck you, that's what.

It's more likely to be the Kipper mindset present in Labour Wales.
They can cut NHS stuff and blame the Tory government, right up until it explodes in their face and Wales decides to declare independence over a bunch of bullshit that never happened.

Thinking Labour *actually* supports the NHS, rather than uses it as a public hysteria issue, would be naive I think. This is NEW Labour, after all.

You call people stupid for being duped into a conspiracy theory? Within your own conspiracy theory?

[Imperializt Russia]

Naive and stupid aren't synonymous.

[Ostroeuropa]

It's more likely to be the Kipper mindset present in Labour Wales.
They can cut NHS stuff and blame the Tory government, right up until it explodes in their face and Wales decides to declare independence over a bunch of bullshit that never happened.

Thinking Labour *actually* supports the NHS, rather than uses it as a public hysteria issue, would be naive I think. This is NEW Labour, after all.

You call people stupid for being duped into a conspiracy theory? Within your own conspiracy theory?

I never called people stupid. Just pointed out that the Labour Party tends to revolve it's election campaigns around a conspiracy theory. Some Labour voters roll their eyes at it too.
It's also not a conspiracy theory to say something is more likely to explain a situation compared to other explanations.

[Irona]

You call people stupid for being duped into a conspiracy theory? Within your own conspiracy theory?

I never called people stupid. Just pointed out that the Labour Party tends to revolve it's election campaigns around a conspiracy theory.
It's also not a conspiracy theory to say something is more likely to explain a situation compared to other explanations.

I'm sorry but arguing that the Labour Party deliberately and knowingly tricks voters into following a conspiracy theory IS a conspiracy theory.

[CoraSpia]

Why is competition key? Nobody chooses what hospital they go to for A&E or factors in the quality of the hospitals in the area when they move house.

Because then you can compare outcomes and hospitals can adopt policies that are better suited to serve the public.

The NHS is already too fractured. It is ludicrous that their is no system which shares information between gps, and that when moving around the country we still have to fill in the same form to see a gp depending on what area we are in.

[HMS Vanguard]

What are grammar schools, and why were they banned?

Grammar schools are state-funded schools that are segregated by ability. They were banned to make it expensive for intelligent people to have children.

[Great Nepal]

Because then you can compare outcomes and hospitals can adopt policies that are better suited to serve the public.

The NHS is already too fractured. It is ludicrous that their is no system which shares information between gps, and that when moving around the country we still have to fill in the same form to see a gp depending on what area we are in.

Just because data is shared (or should be shared) doesn't mean hospitals performance can't (or shouldn't) be compared with each other and policies instituted individually. Share the underlying data and back end processes between hospitals; but allow competition based on their performance wrt patients.

[Rufford]

Well, as you say so yourself, some. Most are just useless.

https://www.nomisweb.co.uk/reports/lmp/ ... eport.aspx
Of the 9 million economically inactive in the UK, over 2 million are students, over 2 million look after family members or are homemakers, 2 million are long-term sick and over 1 million are retirees.
7 million of the 9 million economically inactive "do not want a job".

What are grammar schools, and why were they banned?

It's a school with an entrance exam, intended for the brightest children to go to.
They weren't banned, but the construction or conversion of new ones were banned.

There are 165 of them remaining in the UK, out of more than 3000 comprehensive-level schools, but 69 of them are in Northern Ireland for some reason.

Good. Absolutely the right decision.
Bring in more social mobility; let children regardless of their background thrive based on their skills, rather than bundling them together with the bad kids.

I tried to explain this to you before. Except for happening to go to the same school; bright, skilled children are not "bundled together with the bad kids".

They are already separated by classes tailored to educational ability.
Any "bad kids" they are "bundled with" are children of a similar level of intellect who just happen to be twats. They'd have made it into a grammar school too.

At my school, a relatively small school, each year group, for each individual subject, was separated into up to six "sets" (classes). X set, 1, 2 and 3 for the top-attaining kids, and Y set, 1, 2 and 3 for the lowest-attaining kids.
I was in X1 (top) set for all subjects except French. Can't remember what set I actually was in. I graduated with a qualification that didn't properly reflect what little ability I had - I specifically requested the foundation-tier listening exam (a tape recites the questions, you write in answers - functionally, a timed exam to boot) for French because I simply could not handle the upper-tier paper.

We still have that, A set 1, 2, 3 and 4 and the same for B sets. I'm a prime example of a kid who is in sets A 1/2 for everything and still messes around. My grades would get me into a grammar school, but I'd still mess around there.