UK Politics IV: Disraeli Gears

[Questers]

Having pride in your country is a little bit silly. This is the silly aspect of patriotism.

That a person should not have a stronger bond to their own country than to any random country with which they're not associated is slightly unusual, however.

[The Huskar Social Union]

I might find that I become the first person ever to actually fail my master's course, by having only "completed" something in the region of 50 of the 180 credits.

Or I haven't and the people in the postgrad office have spent 4+ weeks not bothering to actually let me know how that's going.

Sorry IR.

Having pride in your country is a little bit silly. This is the silly aspect of patriotism.

That a person should not have a stronger bond to their own country than to any random country with which they're not associated is slightly unusual, however.

Personally i could not really care about that kind of thing, im born in Ireland yay thats it, i mean i like being irish but thats it, its not a big thing for me, never got into patriotism at all either.

[HMS Vanguard]

Patriotism isn't silly at all because countries are a common endeavour. The difference between the life of a single man in Nigeria or in Japan is much more due to the country than his own personal characteristics. A country is the sum of the personal characteristics of all its citizens.

[Allanea]

Patriotism is fairly natural.

Like loving your mom.

Everyone thinks their mom is the best.

It's almost never true (most people's moms are average) but most people (unless something is horribly wrong in their family, or they're actually unable to feel emotion) love their mom.

[HMS Vanguard]

Patriotism is fairly natural.

Like loving your mom.

Everyone thinks their mom is the best.

It's almost never true (most people's moms are average) but most people (unless something is horribly wrong in their family, or they're actually unable to feel emotion) love their mom.

I don't think my mother is the best mother in the world but I still love her more than I love the best mother in the world (who I don't love at all for that matter).

Patriotism and blind supremacism are not the same thing.

[Irona]

Patriotism is fairly natural.

Like loving your mom.

Everyone thinks their mom is the best.

It's almost never true (most people's moms are average) but most people (unless something is horribly wrong in their family, or they're actually unable to feel emotion) love their mom.

It's entirely possible to love your mum without thinking she's the best, the same is true for your country

There's a difference in America because your pretty much indoctrinated into thinking your country is

[Elepis]

Because some have better values and beliefs than others.

Apparently that's nonsense.

Besides, all this is different from what Lamadia was originally saying. She was saying i should have an unbreakable loyalty to Britain just for the very fact I was born here and nothing else, an idea I find parochial and petty. Which she has still not defended.

You can up and decide to play for the other team in football and call people narrowminded too if you like.
You're British. You should be out to advocate for our interests.

Why should I though? Why should the interests of these 60 Million people be more important to me than the interests of say 1.3 Billion Chinese people, just because I was born here?

No one has actually answered that

[Lamadia III]

That is a very patronising view of the electorate.

I posted a poll earlier showing it's true.

The British public want canadians, americans, irish, australians, new zealanders to jump the queue.

Then french, germans, japanese, and swedes on a second tier.

Followed by a third tier of everyone else, with a fourth "No thanks" tier of several muslim countries, and Russia.


https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/26/on ... igrant-tu/

This plan has some faults, however inherently it is not a bad thing.
Wanting to prioritise Americans, Canadians, Australians, New Zealanders, and so on, is not a bad thing: These people share a very similar culture with ourselves. They already know English as their first language, and in terms of history, in terms of business culture, we are far more similar to an Australian or to an American rather than a Polish, or Russian. I am not saying we should close the door to people from these countries (far from it,) however I understand the motive & the logic behind this idea.

[HMS Vanguard]

Apparently that's nonsense.



You can up and decide to play for the other team in football and call people narrowminded too if you like.
You're British. You should be out to advocate for our interests.

Why should I though? Why should the interests of these 60 Million people be more important to me than the interests of say 1.3 Billion Chinese people, just because I was born here?

No one has actually answered that

Because if you send all your money to China they will leave you to die in a ditch. If you send all your money to the British government, the British will not let you die in a ditch.

Patriotism makes sense because it is ultimately self-promoting, but the best thing for yourself and your country in the long run isn't always the best thing for yourself in the short run in every specific situation, so an emotional sense of duty to make you act patriotically anyway is useful for everyone.

There is social pressure to be patriotic because people who are not patriotic in otherwise patriotic societies are free-riders, getting the benefits of a cohesive society without paying any of the costs.

[Minzerland II]

Patriotism is fairly natural.

Like loving your mom.

Everyone thinks their mom is the best.

It's almost never true (most people's moms are average) but most people (unless something is horribly wrong in their family, or they're actually unable to feel emotion) love their mom.

It's entirely possible to love your mum without thinking she's the best, the same is true for your country

There's a difference in America because your pretty much indoctrinated into thinking your country is

Hyperbolic for the sake of being hyperbolic?

[Elepis]

Why should I though? Why should the interests of these 60 Million people be more important to me than the interests of say 1.3 Billion Chinese people, just because I was born here?

No one has actually answered that

Because if you send all your money to China they will leave you to die in a ditch. If you send all your money to the British government, the British will not let you die in a ditch.

Patriotism makes sense because it is ultimately self-promoting, but the best thing for yourself and your country in the long run isn't always the best thing for yourself in the short run in every specific situation, so an emotional sense of duty to make you act patriotically anyway is useful for everyone.

There is social pressure to be patriotic because people who are not patriotic in otherwise patriotic societies are free-riders, getting the benefits of a cohesive society without paying any of the costs.

How does patriotsim make sense though, disqualifying the fact Britain is more free than Iran but less free than other countries, how can it ever make sense that I should feel more pride in this country than in any other country? Why is this country automatically Superior to anyother regardless of what those other countries are like?

People who aren't patriotic still pay taxes you know.

[Irona]

It's entirely possible to love your mum without thinking she's the best, the same is true for your country

There's a difference in America because your pretty much indoctrinated into thinking your country is

I severely doubt this assertion.

Say what you will, but the Pledge of Allegiance everyday at school seems pretty culty to me. Same with the near flag worship.

[Lamadia III]

I severely doubt this assertion.

Say what you will, but the Pledge of Allegiance everyday at school seems pretty culty to me. Same with the near flag worship.

I want to see a national anthem in a school assembly every week.
Drill up some national pride in our children, to stop people (forgive the term, it sounds rude but I think this phrase would in any situation) like you. Encourage freedom, the freedom to criticise what this country does, the freedom to want to change it, but make sure our children feel pride in this nation.

[Elepis]

Say what you will, but the Pledge of Allegiance everyday at school seems pretty culty to me. Same with the near flag worship.

I want to see a national anthem in a school assembly every week.
Drill up some national pride in our children, to stop people (forgive the term, it sounds rude but I think this phrase would in any situation) like you. Encourage freedom, the freedom to criticise what this country does, the freedom to want to change it, but make sure our children feel pride in this nation.

That is so much doublethink even O'brien would be proud

[Minzerland II]

I severely doubt this assertion.

Say what you will, but the Pledge of Allegiance everyday at school seems pretty culty to me. Same with the near flag worship.

As much as I disagree with the Pledge of Allegiance, This doesn't exhibit any kind of cultish behaviour at all, cults expel criticism from the group, as far as I can see criticism isn't expelled at all, the pledge has been criticised frequently; otherwise any oath is cultish in nature.

Flag worship? I think anyone who's a patriot and/or love their nation would be angered if their representation was being treated with contempt.

[Elepis]

Say what you will, but the Pledge of Allegiance everyday at school seems pretty culty to me. Same with the near flag worship.

As much as I disagree with the Pledge of Allegiance, This doesn't exhibit any kind of cultish behaviour at all, cults expel criticism from the group, as far as I can see criticism isn't expelled at all, the pledge has been criticised frequently; otherwise any oath is cultish in nature.

Flag worship? I think anyone who's a patriot and/or love their nation would be angered if their representation was being treated with contempt.

its just a piece of cloth, whats the big deal?

[Minzerland II]

I want to see a national anthem in a school assembly every week.
Drill up some national pride in our children, to stop people (forgive the term, it sounds rude but I think this phrase would in any situation) like you. Encourage freedom, the freedom to criticise what this country does, the freedom to want to change it, but make sure our children feel pride in this nation.

That is so much doublethink even O'brien would be proud

I don't see it.

[Minzerland II]

As much as I disagree with the Pledge of Allegiance, This doesn't exhibit any kind of cultish behaviour at all, cults expel criticism from the group, as far as I can see criticism isn't expelled at all, the pledge has been criticised frequently; otherwise any oath is cultish in nature.

Flag worship? I think anyone who's a patriot and/or love their nation would be angered if their representation was being treated with contempt.

its just a piece of cloth, whats the big deal?

It represents them as a nation; when you damage it, you insult and hurt said nation.

[FelrikTheDeleted]

As much as I disagree with the Pledge of Allegiance, This doesn't exhibit any kind of cultish behaviour at all, cults expel criticism from the group, as far as I can see criticism isn't expelled at all, the pledge has been criticised frequently; otherwise any oath is cultish in nature.

Flag worship? I think anyone who's a patriot and/or love their nation would be angered if their representation was being treated with contempt.

its just a piece of cloth, whats the big deal?

I'd like to mention that over one hundred thousand men and women have fought under the American flag.

[Irona]

its just a piece of cloth, whats the big deal?

It represents them as a nation; when you damage it, you insult and hurt said nation.

if you intentionally damage it in order to offend then it does, but accidentally spilling a cup of tea on a flag shouldn't really matter

[Elepis]

its just a piece of cloth, whats the big deal?

I'd like to mention that over one hundred thousand men and women have fought under the American flag.

your point being?

[Minzerland II]

It represents them as a nation; when you damage it, you insult and hurt said nation.

if you intentionally damage it in order to offend then it does, but accidentally spilling a cup of tea on a flag shouldn't really matter

Yes, that distinction should be made.

[Elepis]

its just a piece of cloth, whats the big deal?

It represents them as a nation; when you damage it, you insult and hurt said nation.

you hurt an abstract concept?

[Elepis]

That is so much doublethink even O'brien would be proud

I don't see it.

encouraging national pride, but somehow encouraging free thought at the same time even though encouraging national pride means means discouraging free thought by treating the nation as inviobale

[FelrikTheDeleted]

I'd like to mention that over one hundred thousand men and women have fought under the American flag.

your point being?

My point being that the flag represents everyone that died under said flag.