UK Politics IV: Disraeli Gears

[Wolfmanne2]

Immigration has clearly had a detrimental effect in many deprived communities such as Stoke-upon-Trent, putting pressure upon public services and then there is also the fact that exploitative bosses taking advantage of migrant labour has a detrimental effect upon the British people in regards to wage stagnation and opportunities in low-income jobs. Now, we do need some immigration in order to balance out the impact of an ageing population and also as natives simply do not seek out certain jobs (i.e. fruit picking in agriculture - though there is the argument that they would if wages were higher, but I digress) - but we can cut immigration with little cost to the economy and likely an increased in general welfare for the British people.

Yes, but we seem to be talking more in terms of quotas and only accepting immigrants from certain geographical areas. That's what doesn't make sense to me.

It's Ostroeuropa, what do you expect?

[Philjia]

Yes, but we seem to be talking more in terms of quotas and only accepting immigrants from certain geographical areas. That's what doesn't make sense to me.

It's Ostroeuropa, what do you expect?

Increasingly brazen excursions into BNP territory?

[The Nihilistic view]

Immigration has clearly had a detrimental effect in many deprived communities such as Stoke-upon-Trent, putting pressure upon public services and then there is also the fact that exploitative bosses taking advantage of migrant labour has a detrimental effect upon the British people in regards to wage stagnation and opportunities in low-income jobs. Now, we do need some immigration in order to balance out the impact of an ageing population and also as natives simply do not seek out certain jobs (i.e. fruit picking in agriculture - though there is the argument that they would if wages were higher, but I digress) - but we can cut immigration with little cost to the economy and likely an increased in general welfare for the British people.

Yes, but we seem to be talking more in terms of quotas and only accepting immigrants from certain geographical areas. That's what doesn't make sense to me.

What don't you understand about social cohesion?

[Lamadia III]

It's Ostroeuropa, what do you expect?

Increasingly brazen excursions into BNP territory?

You seem to think increasingly that anybody left of Corbyn is Adolf Hitler.

[Wolfmanne2]

It's Ostroeuropa, what do you expect?

Increasingly brazen excursions into BNP territory?

Basically yeah. I mean I accept we need to address immigration, but basing immigration policy upon xenophobia and racism rather then on the economic and wellbeing aspect of it is not good policymaking to me.

[Geilinor]

I don't think anyone has really explained why we should be capping immigration anyway. What is the benefit?

It's a cheaper way of approaching the housing crisis and things like that. Instead if increasing supply, we reduce demand.

Not that it'd work, mind you.

The easiest, most productive way to deal with housing costs is to simply build more housing.

[Ostroeuropa]

Yes, but we seem to be talking more in terms of quotas and only accepting immigrants from certain geographical areas. That's what doesn't make sense to me.

It's Ostroeuropa, what do you expect?

Once you accept there is to be a cap, it becomes a matter of deciding which ones are best suited to be here. English speakers are obviously at the front of that queue in terms of costing the government the least, and benefiting the economy the most. If they also have cultural similarities, that means less risk of isolation and less security risk, as well as other benefits for assimilation.

You're also ignoring that this was the view of the majority of the british public.

[Olivaero]

Judging an individual based on their potential actions because some others in their ethnic group happen to really love thoes actions doesn't make much sense. Judging people on what they have actually done makes more sense. Funnily enough we also live in an age where this is easier than ever as facebook continues to spread. If you want to evaluate a potential immigrant on their ideals why not just browse through their statuses? However that is pretty much stepping on the right of free speech, but it's certainly more fair then what your proposing.

It's an issue of resources and practicality. Given unlimited funding, we could be far more strenuous. But, fact is, the British government owes its own citizens fair treatment before it owes foreigners fair treatment, and that should be reflected in funding and resource allocation.
So a broad, perhaps unfair, policy, is acceptable to me until home affairs are in better order and more funds could be directed to make immigration checks more individualized instead of generalized.

A problem solvable by automation then, a simple program thats designed to parse the text of the individuals posts pick out mentions of hot button topics such as terrosim, homosexuality, gender views then have an individual glance through the posts which are highlighted. Safe to say, I think your solution would end up never being fixed because there will always be more problems at home and money when it comes to government departments will always be tight.

[Vassenor]

Increasingly brazen excursions into BNP territory?

Basically yeah. I mean I accept we need to address immigration, but basing immigration policy upon xenophobia and racism rather then on the economic and wellbeing aspect of it is not good policymaking to me.

Unfortunately it is what the electorate has called for.

[Wolfmanne2]

Basically yeah. I mean I accept we need to address immigration, but basing immigration policy upon xenophobia and racism rather then on the economic and wellbeing aspect of it is not good policymaking to me.

Unfortunately it is what the electorate has called for.

That is a very patronising view of the electorate.

[Imperializt Russia]

I don't think anyone has really explained why we should be capping immigration anyway. What is the benefit?

Immigration has clearly had a detrimental effect in many deprived communities such as Stoke-upon-Trent, putting pressure upon public services and then there is also the fact that exploitative bosses taking advantage of migrant labour has a detrimental effect upon the British people in regards to wage stagnation and opportunities in low-income jobs. Now, we do need some immigration in order to balance out the impact of an ageing population and also as natives simply do not seek out certain jobs (i.e. fruit picking in agriculture - though there is the argument that they would if wages were higher, but I digress) - but we can cut immigration with little cost to the economy and likely an increased in general welfare for the British people.

If fruit-pickers were paid better so that natives chose to get into fruit-picking, then fruit wouldn't be cheap. Demand for British fruit would fall, and those native fruit-pickers would be out of a job.

Then the companies would just drop wages and hire migrants again, because migrants are typically happy to do that work, and are typically better at it than natives.
Supposedly it's common in America for Americans to try fruit or vegetable picking, and they're constantly shown up by the Mexican labourers, and simply cannot keep up.

[The Nihilistic view]

Increasingly brazen excursions into BNP territory?

You seem to think increasingly that anybody left of Corbyn is Adolf Hitler.

\o

[Mad hatters in jeans]

Unfortunately it is what the electorate has called for.

That is a very patronising view of the electorate.

Is it far from the truth?

[Ostroeuropa]

Unfortunately it is what the electorate has called for.

That is a very patronising view of the electorate.

I posted a poll earlier showing it's true.

The British public want canadians, americans, irish, australians, new zealanders to jump the queue.

Then french, germans, japanese, and swedes on a second tier.

Followed by a third tier of everyone else, with a fourth "No thanks" tier of several muslim countries, and Russia.


https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/26/on ... igrant-tu/

[Philjia]

Increasingly brazen excursions into BNP territory?

You seem to think increasingly that anybody right of Corbyn is Adolf Hitler.

Corbyn is also racist. Well, he attracts them, at least.

[Souseiseki]

Unfortunately it is what the electorate has called for.

That is a very patronising view of the electorate.

#goebbelswasright

[Sanctissima]

I don't think anyone has really explained why we should be capping immigration anyway. What is the benefit?

I would say "None!" but I'm certain I'm in a massive minority. I'd go one step further and say it's actually a fairly ridiculous goal to try and limit immigration to a simple numerical figure when the population of the whole world keeps on growing and the environmental situation is deteriorating.

Eh, it depends on the economy in question, and the current population demographic. You can't just have total open borders, especially if you're a rich and highly developed country, since that would be unrealistic. People would continually flock in, and eventually it would become unsustainable.

In the case of the UK, quite a lot of its economy, like most of Western Europe, relies on cheap labour from migrant workers (not exactly the same situation as with actual immigrants, I know, but hear me out). As such, it inevitably needs to maintain or otherwise keep a steady influx of these workers, since its economy would otherwise need to be restructured, lest it implode on itself. With the possibility of the UK officially leaving the EU, this is going to increasingly become a necessity, since many European expats working in the UK under the terms of Schengen will likely be sent home packing. That being said, even with the increasing need, you can't have too much cheap labour, or domestic unemployment becomes untenable and instability ensues. There needs to be a bit of give and take.

[Imperializt Russia]

Unfortunately it is what the electorate has called for.

That is a very patronising view of the electorate.

I'm sorry, were you away at the end of June?

[Souseiseki]

That is a very patronising view of the electorate.

I'm sorry, were you away at the end of June?

are you sure you're just not just patronizingly ignoring their Legitimate Fears™ about immigration, as expressed by the express?

[Vassenor]

Increasingly brazen excursions into BNP territory?

You seem to think increasingly that anybody left of Corbyn is Adolf Hitler.

Are we still collecting for NSG Burning Man?

[Wolfmanne2]

That is a very patronising view of the electorate.

I posted a poll earlier showing it's true.

The British public want canadians, americans, irish, australians, new zealanders to jump the queue.

Then french, germans, japanese, and swedes on a second tier.

Followed by a third tier of everyone else, with a fourth "No thanks" tier of several muslim countries, and Russia.


https://yougov.co.uk/news/2016/08/26/on ... igrant-tu/

I've seen the poll. Introducing an element of selection based on the skills required will by itself exclude a great number of people there you and I suppose many people have deemed culturally undesirable. Will an Egyptian engineer likely be hired over a French one? Our low-income workers are already overwhelmingly EU migrants, so we're fine on that front and we don't get a great deal of immigration from the Middle East or South Asia anymore, so it all seems a bit moot to introduce an unnecessary selection criteria.

[Imperializt Russia]

I nearly accidentally used an Express chart until I realised it was an Express chart.
Not because it was from the Express, but because it was of Express readers.

This is the chart I was originally looking for, and I only realised once I found it that it is, again, for Leave voters.

[The Nihilistic view]

That is a very patronising view of the electorate.

I'm sorry, were you away at the end of June?

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/2016/06/ho ... d-and-why/

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content ... 68x989.jpg

[Imperializt Russia]

Increasingly brazen excursions into BNP territory?

You seem to think increasingly that anybody left of Corbyn is Adolf Hitler.

Pretty sure you mean right.

Even then you're still wrong, but whatever.

[Wolfmanne2]

That is a very patronising view of the electorate.

I'm sorry, were you away at the end of June?

You're assuming that the anti-immigration sentiment is stemming from xenophobia and racism, which is true in many instances. You need to remember as well that such attitudes stem from economic deprivation within communities, whether as a result of a lack of public investment or as a result of economic exploitation by unscrupulous bosses of both native and migrant labour.

Most people don't oppose highly skilled immigration; they do not want to halt immigration as a whole. To a white working class person they understand that a skilled engineer has a lot to contribute to the country. The issue is more low-skilled immigrants.