UK Politics IV: Disraeli Gears

[Dejanic]

BoJo as Foreign Secretary seems crazy, but in hindsight it makes perfect sense. That's why he didn't contest the leadership.

It was more that Gove backstabbed him at the last minute, no?

Possibly, but Gove isn't the most popular figure with the public, and there's a good chance Johnson made some secret deal with May as opposed to going through a long drawn out campaign which he was already behind in, and was futher behind thanks to Goves betrayal.

Gove in the end fucked himself over, he betrayed Cameron and the more pro Euro side of the Tories with his hop over to leave, and then he destroyed his one chance of decent power by backstabbing Johnson, which caused him to considered untrustworthy and in many senses despised by the leave side of the Tories. Whilst May was always ahead Boris was the only one with a chance of beating her in a vote off, but with Goves betrayal he fucked Johnson over, fucked himself over since he never had a chance anyway, Fox then disappeared (though he was always a joke candidare) and that then left Leadsome as the "Brexit candidate, Leadsome being a politician no one had heard of, with no relavent experience or expertise, with outlandish extreme views (she's basically the right wing Corbyn), and in my honest opinion, she's someone who never realistically wanted to be PM. She ran to raise her profile as a politician, and as soon as the heat got to her and she realised it was her or May, she backed out very quickly.

Either way, Goves political career is dead for now, no one will trust him again. Who will take him now?

[Dejanic]

I think that's not as likely as you'd think, since his remit does not include Brexit or international trade.

I didn't mean to imply he would be responsible for Brexit - I simply meant that his appointment to foreign secretary, a role that pretty much everyone in the world agrees he would be totally disastrous at, looks a bit like Theresa May disposing of a potential leadership rival by giving him a job he will make a total hash of, thereby destroying any remaining credibility he might have.

Only Europhilic politicians are saying that, they think he'd be a disaster because he's successful and doesn't agree with their warped view (that Britain MUST be a part of the European union), they want a foreign secretary who will serve them, as opposed to his/hers countries interests, they want a yes man, and Boris isn't a yes man. Boris was decent as Mayor of London and did a lot in terms of foreign policy, he has the relevant experience and expertise to be a good foreign secretary imo.

[Geilinor]

I didn't mean to imply he would be responsible for Brexit - I simply meant that his appointment to foreign secretary, a role that pretty much everyone in the world agrees he would be totally disastrous at, looks a bit like Theresa May disposing of a potential leadership rival by giving him a job he will make a total hash of, thereby destroying any remaining credibility he might have.

Only Europhilic politicians are saying that, they think he'd be a disaster because he's successful and doesn't agree with their warped view (that Britain MUST be a part of the European union), they want a foreign secretary who will serve them, as opposed to his/hers countries interests, they want a yes man, and Boris isn't a yes man. Boris was decent as Mayor of London and did a lot in terms of foreign policy, he has the relevant experience and expertise to be a good foreign secretary imo.

He compared the EU's motives to those of the Nazis and insulted the current US president and one of the candidates. He once called Africans "picanninies".

[Wolfmanne2]

I didn't mean to imply he would be responsible for Brexit - I simply meant that his appointment to foreign secretary, a role that pretty much everyone in the world agrees he would be totally disastrous at, looks a bit like Theresa May disposing of a potential leadership rival by giving him a job he will make a total hash of, thereby destroying any remaining credibility he might have.

Only Europhilic politicians are saying that, they think he'd be a disaster because he's successful and doesn't agree with their warped view (that Britain MUST be a part of the European union), they want a foreign secretary who will serve them, as opposed to his/hers countries interests, they want a yes man, and Boris isn't a yes man. Boris was decent as Mayor of London and did a lot in terms of foreign policy, he has the relevant experience and expertise to be a good foreign secretary imo.

Even among us Labour moderates in London, Boris was a pretty awful Mayor of London.

[Philjia]

Only Europhilic politicians are saying that, they think he'd be a disaster because he's successful and doesn't agree with their warped view (that Britain MUST be a part of the European union), they want a foreign secretary who will serve them, as opposed to his/hers countries interests, they want a yes man, and Boris isn't a yes man. Boris was decent as Mayor of London and did a lot in terms of foreign policy, he has the relevant experience and expertise to be a good foreign secretary imo.

He compared the EU's motives to those of the Nazis and insulted the current US president and one of the candidates. He once called Africans "picanninies".

At least as Foreign Secretary he'll have an army of schmoozers and handlers at the embassies to protect him.

[Dejanic]

Only Europhilic politicians are saying that, they think he'd be a disaster because he's successful and doesn't agree with their warped view (that Britain MUST be a part of the European union), they want a foreign secretary who will serve them, as opposed to his/hers countries interests, they want a yes man, and Boris isn't a yes man. Boris was decent as Mayor of London and did a lot in terms of foreign policy, he has the relevant experience and expertise to be a good foreign secretary imo.

He compared the EU's motives to those of the Nazis and insulted the current US president and one of the candidates. He once called Africans "picanninies".

He apologised for the "picanninies" comments. I wouldn't disagree with comparing the EU's motives to certain Nazi motives. And insulted the US president? This is Britain, politicians insult each other daily in parliament and outside it, American political rules don't apply here.

[Dejanic]

Also the EU/Nazis comment must be taken within context. We also had remainers saying that supporting Brexit meant supporting the Islamic state and terrorism, as well as world war 3. Both sides said brutal silly things.

[Geilinor]

He compared the EU's motives to those of the Nazis and insulted the current US president and one of the candidates. He once called Africans "picanninies".

He apologised for the "picanninies" comments. I wouldn't disagree with comparing the EU's motives to certain Nazi motives. And insulted the US president? This is Britain, politicians insult each other daily in parliament and outside it, American political rules don't apply here.

He apologized but he'll have to travel to Africa, where people may not completely forgive him for it.

[Valaran]

Even among us Labour moderates in London, Boris was a pretty awful Mayor of London.

Boris wasn't an awful mayor imo.

[Imperializt Russia]

Only Europhilic politicians are saying that, they think he'd be a disaster because he's successful and doesn't agree with their warped view (that Britain MUST be a part of the European union), they want a foreign secretary who will serve them, as opposed to his/hers countries interests, they want a yes man, and Boris isn't a yes man. Boris was decent as Mayor of London and did a lot in terms of foreign policy, he has the relevant experience and expertise to be a good foreign secretary imo.

He compared the EU's motives to those of the Nazis and insulted the current US president and one of the candidates. He once called Africans "picanninies".

I believe he made the picanninies comment in his column on three occasions (that the news bothered to quote).

[Valaran]

Boris was decent as Mayor of London and did a lot in terms of foreign policy, he has the relevant experience and expertise to be a good foreign secretary imo.

If you mean by foreign policy, he went around and made a celebrity of himself then yes. That was absolutely fine in the London context - we basically just needed a mayor who could market the place and make news - I'm not begrudging Boris that.

However, I seriously doubt he has the expertise or experience. He may have the skill for it, but not those.

[Mad hatters in jeans]

He compared the EU's motives to those of the Nazis and insulted the current US president and one of the candidates. He once called Africans "picanninies".

He apologised for the "picanninies" comments. I wouldn't disagree with comparing the EU's motives to certain Nazi motives. And insulted the US president? This is Britain, politicians insult each other daily in parliament and outside it, American political rules don't apply here.

Don't even try to defend Boris, just don't.

[Souseiseki]

angel eagle's CLP ignored the suspension of CLP meetings and held a vote of no-confidence anyway. it is understood she was "btfo 59-9 gg no re bye bye".

[Mike the Progressive]

Lesser of two evils? Democracy is normally selecting the less shittier option. Not the most ideal one. I suspect a lot of people would prefer Blair over Cameron or May.

Well we've had thirty years of "selecting the less shittier option" and it really hasn't worked out.

Sure it has. Just not for the ideologues.

[Mike the Progressive]

Parties have factions. Corbyn is symbolic of the hard left frustrated at defeat and much like Tea Party candidates in the US shows us the base pushing harder and harder to their side. The most success Labour has had with Tony Blair, but old school socialists and leftists didn't like his pull to the center. It's a lot easier to change your message than what people believe. Labour doesn't seem to understand that.

Several decades ago Corbyn would be considered a moderate. And what the right don't seem to understand (Ken Clarke is the only one who does understand), is Labour moving left, shifts the whole political spectrum in Britain to the left.

You're mistaken. The paradigm is moving towards the right. Political defeat has driven Labour to the fringe.

[Marcurix]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36796212

Well, this is awkward.

[Ifreann]

angel eagle's CLP ignored the suspension of CLP meetings and held a vote of no-confidence anyway. it is understood she was "btfo 59-9 gg no re bye bye".

RESPECT DEMOCRACY

[Anywhere Else But Here]

http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36796212

Well, this is awkward.

But Lord Wolfson insists that immigration was NOT the key issue for many who wanted out of the EU.

What world is he living in? And can I go live there too?

[Freefall11111]

Oh boy, oh boy. It's by-election time.

Gwynedd (Marchog) result:
IND: 65.3% (+65.3)
LAB: 34.7% (+10.6)

Selby (Byram & Brotherton) result:
CON: 44.3% (+11.8 )
LAB: 39.6% (-4.4)
YF: 16.1% (+16.1)

Islington (Barnsbury) result:
LAB: 51.6% (-4.1)
LDEM: 17.7% (+7.1)
CON: 15.9% (-2.9)
GRN: 13.1% (+0.7)
IND: 1.7% (+1.7)

Gwynedd (Y Felinheli) result, nothing to compare to because PC ran unopposed last time:
PC: 92.6%
CON: 7.4%

Astley (North Norfolk) result:
LDEM: 40.8% (+40.8 )
CON: 25.3% (-30.7)
UKIP: 17.0% (+17.0)
GRN: 10.4% (-15.9)
LAB: 6.5% (-11.3)

Newquay Treviglas (Cornwall) result:
LDEM: 57.8% (+32.9)
CON: 25.0% (-2.1)
LAB: 10.3% (-7.4)
IND: 6.9% (+6.9)

Trowbridge Grove (Wiltshire) result:
LDEM: 45.9% (+45.9)
CON: 21.4% (+6.9)
UKIP: 13.4% (+13.4)
LAB: 8.4% (+8.4)
IND: 8.1% (+8.1)
GRN: 2.9%

Newham (Forest Gate North) result:
LAB: 52.5% (-5.0)
GRN: 31.1% (+17.2)
CON: 13.8% (+0.2)
LDEM: 2.6% (-2.5)

Wibsey (Bradford) result:
LAB: 50.7% (+8.9)
UKIP: 27.5% (-11.1)
CON: 18.9% (+4.7)
LDEM: 2.9% (-2.5)

St Teath & St Breward result:
LDEM: 44.8% (+13.0)
IND: 17.5% (+17.5)
CON: 14.6% (-2.1)
IND: 13.1% (+13.1)
IND: 5.3% (+5.3)
LAB: 4.8% (+4.8 )


All told: Four Lib Dem gain (two from independent, one from UKIP, one from Tories), three Labour hold, one Plaid hold, one Tory gain (from Labour), one independent gain (from independent).

[Atlanticatia]

http://www.scotsman.com/news/uk/poll-vo ... -1-4177896

So Corbyn is unpopular, but Eagle ain't gonna improve Labour's standing either.

[Vassenor]

So I guess this sums up how screwed we are.

[Imperializt Russia]

Well we've had thirty years of "selecting the less shittier option" and it really hasn't worked out.

Sure it has. Just not for the ideologues.

No, it objectively hasn't worked out. The poor were fucked, the students were fucked, anyone who pays for a utility, or service on vital infrastructure was fucked.

Labour's one identity became "chase the Tories" and now they're fucked, they'll eventually reform like the T-1000 and the Tories indentity seems to have become "let's just lie, it won't make people stop voting for us".

[Mad hatters in jeans]

So I guess this sums up how screwed we are.

That site has a lot of depressing articles.

Think i'm gonna take a break from the news for a while

[The Huskar Social Union]

Oh boy, oh boy. It's by-election time.

Gwynedd (Marchog) result:
IND: 65.3% (+65.3)
LAB: 34.7% (+10.6)

Selby (Byram & Brotherton) result:
CON: 44.3% (+11.8 )
LAB: 39.6% (-4.4)
YF: 16.1% (+16.1)

Islington (Barnsbury) result:
LAB: 51.6% (-4.1)
LDEM: 17.7% (+7.1)
CON: 15.9% (-2.9)
GRN: 13.1% (+0.7)
IND: 1.7% (+1.7)

Gwynedd (Y Felinheli) result, nothing to compare to because PC ran unopposed last time:
PC: 92.6%
CON: 7.4%

Astley (North Norfolk) result:
LDEM: 40.8% (+40.8 )
CON: 25.3% (-30.7)
UKIP: 17.0% (+17.0)
GRN: 10.4% (-15.9)
LAB: 6.5% (-11.3)

Newquay Treviglas (Cornwall) result:
LDEM: 57.8% (+32.9)
CON: 25.0% (-2.1)
LAB: 10.3% (-7.4)
IND: 6.9% (+6.9)

Trowbridge Grove (Wiltshire) result:
LDEM: 45.9% (+45.9)
CON: 21.4% (+6.9)
UKIP: 13.4% (+13.4)
LAB: 8.4% (+8.4)
IND: 8.1% (+8.1)
GRN: 2.9%

Newham (Forest Gate North) result:
LAB: 52.5% (-5.0)
GRN: 31.1% (+17.2)
CON: 13.8% (+0.2)
LDEM: 2.6% (-2.5)

Wibsey (Bradford) result:
LAB: 50.7% (+8.9)
UKIP: 27.5% (-11.1)
CON: 18.9% (+4.7)
LDEM: 2.9% (-2.5)

St Teath & St Breward result:
LDEM: 44.8% (+13.0)
IND: 17.5% (+17.5)
CON: 14.6% (-2.1)
IND: 13.1% (+13.1)
IND: 5.3% (+5.3)
LAB: 4.8% (+4.8 )


All told: Four Lib Dem gain (two from independent, one from UKIP, one from Tories), three Labour hold, one Plaid hold, one Tory gain (from Labour), one independent gain (from independent).

Well done Lib Dems i guess.

[Imperializt Russia]

Oh boy, oh boy. It's by-election time.

Gwynedd (Marchog) result:
IND: 65.3% (+65.3)
LAB: 34.7% (+10.6)

Selby (Byram & Brotherton) result:
CON: 44.3% (+11.8 )
LAB: 39.6% (-4.4)
YF: 16.1% (+16.1)

Islington (Barnsbury) result:
LAB: 51.6% (-4.1)
LDEM: 17.7% (+7.1)
CON: 15.9% (-2.9)
GRN: 13.1% (+0.7)
IND: 1.7% (+1.7)

Gwynedd (Y Felinheli) result, nothing to compare to because PC ran unopposed last time:
PC: 92.6%
CON: 7.4%

Astley (North Norfolk) result:
LDEM: 40.8% (+40.8 )
CON: 25.3% (-30.7)
UKIP: 17.0% (+17.0)
GRN: 10.4% (-15.9)
LAB: 6.5% (-11.3)

Newquay Treviglas (Cornwall) result:
LDEM: 57.8% (+32.9)
CON: 25.0% (-2.1)
LAB: 10.3% (-7.4)
IND: 6.9% (+6.9)

Trowbridge Grove (Wiltshire) result:
LDEM: 45.9% (+45.9)
CON: 21.4% (+6.9)
UKIP: 13.4% (+13.4)
LAB: 8.4% (+8.4)
IND: 8.1% (+8.1)
GRN: 2.9%

Newham (Forest Gate North) result:
LAB: 52.5% (-5.0)
GRN: 31.1% (+17.2)
CON: 13.8% (+0.2)
LDEM: 2.6% (-2.5)

Wibsey (Bradford) result:
LAB: 50.7% (+8.9)
UKIP: 27.5% (-11.1)
CON: 18.9% (+4.7)
LDEM: 2.9% (-2.5)

St Teath & St Breward result:
LDEM: 44.8% (+13.0)
IND: 17.5% (+17.5)
CON: 14.6% (-2.1)
IND: 13.1% (+13.1)
IND: 5.3% (+5.3)
LAB: 4.8% (+4.8 )


All told: Four Lib Dem gain (two from independent, one from UKIP, one from Tories), three Labour hold, one Plaid hold, one Tory gain (from Labour), one independent gain (from independent).

Are two of those Lib Dem gains coming from literally 0 vote share last time? Also that Independent.