UK Politics IV: Disraeli Gears

[Kelinfort]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 49086.html

This is batshit crazy. They don't seem to care what the democratic will of their members is. But I think this nicely puts to bed any remaining notions that it is Corbyn, and not his opponenets, who are splitting the party.

Labour voters love him, but the leadership and the rest of the country apparently don't like him all that much.

[Chestaan]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 49086.html

This is batshit crazy. They don't seem to care what the democratic will of their members is. But I think this nicely puts to bed any remaining notions that it is Corbyn, and not his opponenets, who are splitting the party.

Labour voters love him, but the leadership and the rest of the country apparently don't like him all that much.

And they are entitled to their views, but surely, for the good of the party if for nothing else, they should accept the result of the leadership election at least until the next general election. Planning to attack every single year is crazy. I mean there have been leaders who have been much more unpopular among the electorate, and leaders who have done horrible things yet not received this level of hatred from their members of parliament. I just don't see why any of this hate is justified, and their tactic of organising leadership challenge after leadership challenge is just childish in the extreme.

[Imperializt Russia]

"Who do I want to lead the party"?

Difficult question. There's a lot of very valid criticisms of Corbyn's capability as a leader of party, a driver of policy and a uniter. There are issues with PLP themselves in that latter category, with sizeable factions ardently refusing to even try.

As I said before, I would want Corbyn to win again to drive home that there is a solid left wing case that can be made that Labour must reconnect with,
Smith might offer that. He might avoid the toxicity that people are determined to wallow in over Corbyn. He might not prove himself to be a good leader.

This is a question that may not be answerable until September.

[Kelinfort]

Labour voters love him, but the leadership and the rest of the country apparently don't like him all that much.

And they are entitled to their views, but surely, for the good of the party if for nothing else, they should accept the result of the leadership election at least until the next general election. Planning to attack every single year is crazy. I mean there have been leaders who have been much more unpopular among the electorate, and leaders who have done horrible things yet not received this level of hatred from their members of parliament. I just don't see why any of this hate is justified, and their tactic of organising leadership challenge after leadership challenge is just childish in the extreme.

I agree, though the reason why they're attempting this is out of fear. I sincerely think they're worried that Corbyn will keep them in the wilderness for another decade or so.

[Souseiseki]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 49086.html

This is batshit crazy. They don't seem to care what the democratic will of their members is. But I think this nicely puts to bed any remaining notions that it is Corbyn, and not his opponenets, who are splitting the party.

Labour voters love him, but the leadership and the rest of the country apparently don't like him all that much.

perhaps if almost the entirety of the media and almost the entirety of his own party did not shit all over him constantly and daily from literally the moment he got in for the entirety of his tenure we might be seeing better ratings

[Kelinfort]

Labour voters love him, but the leadership and the rest of the country apparently don't like him all that much.

perhaps if almost the entirety of the media and almost the entirety of his own party did not shit all over him constantly and daily from literally the moment he got in for the entirety of his tenure we might be seeing better ratings

Perhaps, but I think it's going to take a massive Conservative fuck up for him to win.

[Wolfmanne2]

perhaps if almost the entirety of the media and almost the entirety of his own party did not shit all over him constantly and daily from literally the moment he got in for the entirety of his tenure we might be seeing better ratings

Perhaps, but I think it's going to take a massive Conservative fuck up for him to win.

How big you ask?

Basically May goes full-Tory and the Tories release video of her cooking and eating kittens, grinding babies with a cheese grater, peeling the noses off dogs with a carrot peeler etc.

Corbyn wins by virtue of not alienating absolutely everyone.

[Imperializt Russia]

Please, the Tories have been fucking up for years.
Just that evidently, no-one cares.

[Val Halla]

Please, the Tories have been fucking up for years.
Just that evidently, no-one cares.

There's a number of reasons for that, I suspect.

[Ifreann]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 49086.html

This is batshit crazy. They don't seem to care what the democratic will of their members is. But I think this nicely puts to bed any remaining notions that it is Corbyn, and not his opponenets, who are splitting the party.

But the PLP have to ignore what Labour voters want. How else are they meant to win the next general election?

---

Labour voters love him, but the leadership and the rest of the country apparently don't like him all that much.

perhaps if almost the entirety of the media and almost the entirety of his own party did not shit all over him constantly and daily from literally the moment he got in for the entirety of his tenure we might be seeing better ratings

You and your wild hypotheticals.

[Wolfmanne2]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 49086.html

This is batshit crazy. They don't seem to care what the democratic will of their members is. But I think this nicely puts to bed any remaining notions that it is Corbyn, and not his opponenets, who are splitting the party.

But the PLP have to ignore what Labour voters want. How else are they meant to win the next general election?

Labour voters and trade unionists want him out. Nor does he appear to be winning over the people who voted for other parties or who are non-voters, whom are all needed to actually win an election.

[Britanno 2]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 49086.html

This is batshit crazy. They don't seem to care what the democratic will of their members is. But I think this nicely puts to bed any remaining notions that it is Corbyn, and not his opponenets, who are splitting the party.

And I hope they don't start caring either to be honest. Because a very large portion of Labour members are batshit crazy and are screwing over students, public sector workers, the poor and just about everyone else by supporting a leader that will hand the election to the Tories. I usually like democracy, but on this particular matter, the membership can go fuck themselves.

[Souseiseki]

Please, the Tories have been fucking up for years.
Just that evidently, no-one cares.

i care and i like to remind people of their fuck ups and also their greatest hits and the effects they continue to have but apparently this makes me hyperboleseki and possibly UK Politics Thread Hitler

e: but yes most of the country either 1) don't know or 2) don't care

[Ifreann]

But the PLP have to ignore what Labour voters want. How else are they meant to win the next general election?

Labour voters and trade unionists want him out.

An online poll of persons unknown and a totally different question. Yes, clearly the core of the party wants him out and it's only the loony left who want him in.

Nor does he appear to be winning over the people who voted for other parties or who are non-voters, whom are all needed to actually win an election.

If indeed that is the case, see souseiseki.pdf re: entire news media v. jihadi jez.

[MERIZoC]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 49086.html

This is batshit crazy. They don't seem to care what the democratic will of their members is. But I think this nicely puts to bed any remaining notions that it is Corbyn, and not his opponenets, who are splitting the party.

It's almost as if the plp has no interest in winning elections and only cares about advancing their liberal ideology. But they wouldn't lie, would they?

[MERIZoC]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 49086.html

This is batshit crazy. They don't seem to care what the democratic will of their members is. But I think this nicely puts to bed any remaining notions that it is Corbyn, and not his opponenets, who are splitting the party.

And I hope they don't start caring either to be honest. Because a very large portion of Labour members are batshit crazy and are screwing over students, public sector workers, the poor and just about everyone else by supporting a leader that will hand the election to the Tories. I usually like democracy, but on this particular matter, the membership can go fuck themselves.

The people handing the election to the Tories are the ones determined to throw the party into instability because of their petty desire to advance their ideology over the will of the base.

[Souseiseki]

Apologies if this has already been posted, but:

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 49086.html

This is batshit crazy. They don't seem to care what the democratic will of their members is. But I think this nicely puts to bed any remaining notions that it is Corbyn, and not his opponenets, who are splitting the party.

It's almost as if the plp has no interest in winning elections and only cares about advancing their liberal ideology. But they wouldn't lie, would they?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 06928.html

[Geilinor]

It's almost as if the plp has no interest in winning elections and only cares about advancing their liberal ideology. But they wouldn't lie, would they?

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 06928.html

Good news for you then. Owen Smith is not a Blairite. Neither is most of the PLP.

[Britanno 2]

The people handing the election to the Tories are the ones determined to throw the party into instability because of their petty desire to advance their ideology over the will of the base.

Labour MPs aren't remotely idealogical though. They prioritise the pragmatic need to win elections over their idelogies. They have to get rid of Corbyn before they can win though, so that's what they'll keep doing (personally I'd rather about 200 MPs split off and form a new party with the Lib Dems but their desire to fix from within is admirable).

[Souseiseki]

Labour MPs aren't remotely idealogical though.

lol

They prioritise the pragmatic need to win elections over their idelogies.

but what's the point in winning an election if you're doing it purely for powers sake and your platform consists of "almost entirely the same thing as the other guy is doing"?

[The Matthew Islands]

This is a link to the guardians live politics feed Jeremy Corbyn threatened to ring MP's Sinn-Féin father over criticism

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... _clipboard

The Guardian has a story on its live blog from a labour MP who is claiming that Corbyn threatened to phone his dad when said MP was critical of Corbyn. Corbyn has denied it.

Corbyn has also apologized to a labour MP he accidently (kek) made a shadow minister while said MP was undergoing cancer treatment and then apparently repeatedly forgot to tell her.

:labour:

[Great Nepal]

This is a link to the guardians live politics feed Jeremy Corbyn threatened to ring MP's Sinn-Féin father over criticism

http://www.theguardian.com/politics/liv ... _clipboard

The Guardian has a story on its live blog from a labour MP who is claiming that Corbyn threatened to phone his dad when said MP was critical of Corbyn. Corbyn has denied it.

Corbyn has also apologized to a labour MP he accidently (kek) made a shadow minister while said MP was undergoing cancer treatment and then apparently repeatedly forgot to tell her.

:labour:

Oh wow so that was true; I'm sorry but how do you accidentally make someone a shadow minister, then accidentally replace them; isn't there say weekly meeting on the shadow cabinet and when it one person repeatedly doesn't turn up (because no one told her) shouldn't someone have implemented a system where someone in Corbyn staff sends an email saying "oh we discussed this and where were you"?
Smith might have a good point, give Corbyn some sort of consultative/ leadership role within the policy making of the party (most of Corbyn policies aren't necessarily bad) while someone with actual competence wrt administration and media management takes over as face of the party.

[Imperializt Russia]

But the PLP have to ignore what Labour voters want. How else are they meant to win the next general election?

Labour voters and trade unionists want him out. Nor does he appear to be winning over the people who voted for other parties or who are non-voters, whom are all needed to actually win an election.

So if they make up such a large portion of the Labour vote, why is the party utterly failing to mobilise these people to vote for the party leadership of the party they apparently care enough to be considered core voters for?

[Questers]

The problem with Corbyn is he isn't a statesman or a statesman in waiting, he isn't a good politician, he isn't a good leader. he's just a good activist that millions of people happen to agree with. that's the problem with him. the PLP & media use the former thing as an excuse to get him out because they don't like his politics, that's the even bigger problem.

[Questers]

mi5 needs to drop nicola S from a lynx into the north sea tbh