UK Politics IV: Disraeli Gears

[The Nihilistic view]

Tied Bacon to a mosque?

Remember, xenophobia is funny.

The abuse shouted isn't, the bacon is fucking hilarious. Should have just left it at that.

[Wolfmanne2]

Always a fucking joke option.

[Val Halla]

Always a fucking joke option.

In modern politics, every option is a joke option.

[Wolfmanne2]

Always a fucking joke option.

In modern politics, every option is a joke option.

Have a cookie.

[Vassenor]

Always a fucking joke option.

EMBRACE IT

[Salandriagado]

How would all of you feel about a 'new' Labour Party; a cosmopolitan, pro-EU, centrist group; pro-business Labour MPs who could become disconnected should Corbyn be re-elected?
A lot of talk about it in the media, very interesting, although I can't quite see it myself.

You are describing the Liberal Democrats.

[Imperializt Russia]

Per my earlier statement, I'm torn between the poll options. My support for Corbyn is ideological above all else - I do not know enough of Smith to make any informed opinion beyond "makes right noises".

Two of my friends who studied politics and history degrees, one of which is doing a master's in politics (or history?) and gets tumescent in the presence of polling data responded "who?" when I asked them for their opinions of Smith.
They both know who he is obviously, they just don't know anything about him.

He's basically Corbyn but Welsh and pro-Trident so I'm kind of confused why the anti-Corbyn sentiment is on board with unifying behind him, but oh well.

Because he wouldn't lead Labour to electoral disaster. The problems with Corbyn have rarely related to his policies, but rather his leadership abilities and communication skills.

Smith has yet to produce leadership abilities and communication skills.
Corbyn seemed (and presumably still is) a good orator when he was nominated.

How do you know Smith wouldn't lead to electoral disaster?

You don't know anyone who's a student, elderly, disabled, working class or Northern do you?

Well, as a disabled Northern student, I prefer the tories to labour.

There are always outliers.

[Arkolon]

I voted Corbyn, just out of gut feeling. I don't associate with him or his politics in the slightest, but something tells me it's for the best. Not that what I say matters anyway, since I'm not a Labour voter and pay 0 attention to Labour party politics apart from what's coming up in BBC articles.

[Britanno 2]

Smith has yet to produce leadership abilities and communication skills.
Corbyn seemed (and presumably still is) a good orator when he was nominated.

How do you know Smith wouldn't lead to electoral disaster?

Owen Smith's campaign launch was pretty good and he's skilled rhetorically speaking, but you're right that nobody knows if he has what it takes. What I do know however is that Corbyn definitely hasn't got what it takes, so there's nothing to lose.

I don't really see Corbyn as a good orator. He's spent his lifetime addressing protests and doesn't seem to suit a conference speech or a parliamentary performance. And I don't know that Smith wouldn't lead Labour to electoral disaster, but I do know that Corbyn would. So, again, what's there to lose?

Personally I think Smith could do well in a general election. Labour isn't in a position to beat the Tories yet - it has to accept that some form of electoral alliance is needed with the Lib Dems, Greens or both before it has any chance of getting into government. It also has to win back Scotland which, in my opinion, could only happen after a second independence referendum win, but that would be a huge gamble and not one I would consider wise to take. That said, Smith could prevent the Tories from trouncing Labour by double digits, which I consider a realistic possibility under Corbyn. I reckon he could cut into their lead as long as he didn't allow an entire election campaign to be dominated about the possibility of a coalition with the SNP. Basically, I think Smith could force the Tories into minority government, while I think under Corbyn we'd see the biggest margin of victory since 2001 (for the Tories, that is).

[Val Halla]

He seems good at lying, I'm sure that'll help him.

[Wolfmanne2]

TIL Jeremy Corbyn was a genocide denier.

http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2004-05/392

A. Motherfucking. Genocide. Denier.

[Vassenor]

TIL Jeremy Corbyn was a genocide denier.

http://www.parliament.uk/edm/2004-05/392

A. Motherfucking. Genocide. Denier.

[The Archregimancy]

Remember, xenophobia is funny.

The abuse shouted isn't, the bacon is fucking hilarious.

Just as 'fucking hilarious', no doubt, as tying bacon to a synagogue.

[The Blaatschapen]

The abuse shouted isn't, the bacon is fucking hilarious.

Just as 'fucking hilarious', no doubt, as tying bacon to a synagogue.

Stop torturing Francis.

[The Archregimancy]

Just as 'fucking hilarious', no doubt, as tying bacon to a synagogue.

Stop torturing Francis.

As it happens, Francis Bacon seems to have had complex ideas about Judaism which were very much of his time, but not wholly anti-Semitic. Based on his New Atlantis, he thought most Jews in the 'real world' both 'hate the name of Christ, and have a secret inbred rancor against the people amongst whom they live'. Nonetheless, Bacon held that Jews could be full and equal participants in his ideal and tolerant Utopian society of Bensalem while also remaining circumcised practicing members of their religion. So he wasn't actively against Jews and Judaism per se - only against an Elizabethan/Jacobean caricature of the unassimilated Jew.

Though most Jews would likely scratch their head in bemusement at Bacon's statement that these ideal Hebrew residents of Bensalem 'would ever acknowledge that Christ was born of a Virgin and that He was more than a man; and he would tell how God made Him ruler of the seraphim, which guard His throne; and they call Him also the Milken Way, an the Elijah of the Messiah, and many other high names, which they though they be inferior to His divine majesty, yet they are far from the language of other Jews.' So he seems to have thought that the perfect Jew was more akin to a circumcised Passover-observing Arian* Christian.


* In the sense of a follower of Arius, not as in a Nazi Aryan.

[Vassenor]

We are talking about someone who thought stuffing a chicken with snow was a good idea.

[Ostroeuropa]

Tied Bacon to a mosque?

Remember, xenophobia is funny.

Mocking religion isn't xenophobia.

Just as 'fucking hilarious', no doubt, as tying bacon to a synagogue.

Yes. That is likewise hilarious. Problem is that our media and institutions are obsessed with preventing mockery of Islam, so the jokes have to be done by "grafitti" of sorts rather than in person.


Zombie Jesus is also funny.

[Vassenor]

Remember, xenophobia is funny.

Mocking religion isn't xenophobia.

xenophobia
[zen-uh-foh-bee-uh, zee-nuh-]
noun
1.
an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.

[Bakery Hill]

Owen Smith: I'd offer Corbyn Labour president job - http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-36842339

Smith seems to be saying all the right things. I'd back him. Damage it might have done in the short term, I wanted Corbyn to win a second leadership election to really drive home that there is a disaffected left that was ready and willing to mobilise and back a left candidate that would bring Labour back to its socialist roots.

Smith seems to offer that. If he's a man of his word, of course. As he said, Corbyn awakened this movement ready to mobilise and willing to become engaged in Labour. Smith still at least appeals to it, if not embraces it himself.

He's basically Corbyn but Welsh and pro-Trident so I'm kind of confused why the anti-Corbyn sentiment is on board with unifying behind him, but oh well.

He did abstain on the Benefit Cuts vote, and was an active supporter of privatisation when he worked with Pfizer...

[Ostroeuropa]

Mocking religion isn't xenophobia.

xenophobia
[zen-uh-foh-bee-uh, zee-nuh-]
noun
1.
an unreasonable fear or hatred of foreigners or strangers or of that which is foreign or strange.

You think hatred of religion is unreasonable? I don't. Nor do many people.

[Lamadia III]

Theresa May was on the attack yesterday in PMQs, using everything the Labour Party said against them; I particularly liked her strike against Corbyn as an 'unscrupulous boss' based on accusations that the Tory Government would not be fulfilling their promise of bringing bad employers to justice.
The current leader of the opposition lacks every ability to hold a proper debate in Parliament. He has spent his political career at anti-nuclear rallies, addressing crowds through a microphone, and has absolutely no idea how to defend real policies made up by a policy making unit in his own party in the House. Unity in the Opposition Party is important. It is important to have an opposing voice to the current Government, to judge & challenge legislation, and I feel that with Mr. Corbyn as its leader, Labour does not have the ability to either challenge properly Conservative policy or argue some of their own. This whole nonsense about the 'five ills of Britain' (or whatever it was,) just shows that; the Labour Leader making brash & brushing statements about inequality & injustice, without basing it on either fact or solution. Rather, the Conservative Party, in particular the Prime Minister, announced clear & decisive policy in its maiden speech a few days ago as a new government, and went to work on it immediately, with a new Cabinet and new departments. The Labour Party can't even hold together its Shadow Cabinet, let alone form a proper debate on which they can be elected! He lacks the support of the Parliamentary Party, which is significantly more important than the counter-culture youth which have joined Labour in the last year; even if he were elected, he wouldn't have the support of his MPs, which is fundamental in passing legislation. He reflects views (ie. the dismantling of our nuclear deterrent) which are not held by his MPs. He has a huge rift with his deputy leader, and has seen almost all of the Shadow Cabinet flock out in droves. How could this man unite a fragile post-Brexit Britain, when he can't even unite his own party?

[Alvecia]

You think hatred of religion is unreasonable? I don't. Nor do many people.

Feel I should point out as well that mocking a religion doesn't mean that it is foreign or strange to the person mocking it.

[Ostroeuropa]

You think hatred of religion is unreasonable? I don't. Nor do many people.

Feel I should point out as well that mocking a religion doesn't mean that it is foreign or strange to the person mocking it.

Also underlying the accusation is an implicit admission that Islam is not a part of our society and is foreign to it.

[Olivaero]

You think hatred of religion is unreasonable? I don't. Nor do many people.

Blanket hatred of religion is unreasonable in the extreme.

[Val Halla]

You think hatred of religion is unreasonable? I don't. Nor do many people.

That's not on topic...