Religious children are meaner than their secular counterpart

[Kylantha]

I'm from a religious family, and I know a lot of other kids with the same religion as I.

That doesn't seem to be the case...

[Menassa]

I don't have to admit, if the notion that every Human being is special and every Human being has issues they have to deal with comes across from the faculty and/or parents then this 'arrogance and superiority' doesn't really factor.

I'm not referring to that, I'm referring to sermons that repeatedly characterise single parents, promiscuous individuals, LGBT people and people of other religions as all universally misguided, sinful or tainted compared to the people who have chosen the "right path" of whatever faith you subscribe to. That is the textbook attitude of a bully.

Again, not when the authority figures of the children teach that just because an individual is doing wrong, doesn't mean that that individual is a bad person.

[Divitaen]

I'm not referring to that, I'm referring to sermons that repeatedly characterise single parents, promiscuous individuals, LGBT people and people of other religions as all universally misguided, sinful or tainted compared to the people who have chosen the "right path" of whatever faith you subscribe to. That is the textbook attitude of a bully.

Again, not when the authority figures of the children teach that just because an individual is doing wrong, doesn't mean that that individual is a bad person.

You honestly believe that that's the kind of nuance a young kid has when he thinks about the issue of sin and wrongdoing? Or maybe, because of the hateful nature of manner sermons today, the kid is likely get a far clearer "us vs. them" picture from many religious teachings and ideas?

[Menassa]

Again, not when the authority figures of the children teach that just because an individual is doing wrong, doesn't mean that that individual is a bad person.

You honestly believe that that's the kind of nuance a young kid has when he thinks about the issue of sin and wrongdoing? Or maybe, because of the hateful nature of manner sermons today, the kid is likely get a far clearer "us vs. them" picture from many religious teachings and ideas?

Of course I do, because that's the religious instruction I was raised with by my parents and teachers. Of course the possibility is there to warp a child's mind using religion, just like there is a possibility to warp a child's mind using anything. Children are rather impressionable ya know.

[Divitaen]

You honestly believe that that's the kind of nuance a young kid has when he thinks about the issue of sin and wrongdoing? Or maybe, because of the hateful nature of manner sermons today, the kid is likely get a far clearer "us vs. them" picture from many religious teachings and ideas?

Of course I do, because that's the religious instruction I was raised with by my parents and teachers. Of course the possibility is there to warp a child's mind using religion, just like there is a possibility to warp a child's mind using anything. Children are rather impressionable ya know.

That's exactly the point, so many your religious leaders were nuanced, but the reality is most are not. The whole "gays will burn in hell" and "women who sleep around are sinful and promiscuous" is very pervasive, and that narrative creates a cultural notion of pride, arrogance and exclusivity that is deeply imprinted in the minds of many devout and religious children, unfortunately, because of how impressionable they are, as you said.

[Menassa]

Of course I do, because that's the religious instruction I was raised with by my parents and teachers. Of course the possibility is there to warp a child's mind using religion, just like there is a possibility to warp a child's mind using anything. Children are rather impressionable ya know.

That's exactly the point, so many your religious leaders were nuanced, but the reality is most are not. The whole "gays will burn in hell" and "women who sleep around are sinful and promiscuous" is very pervasive, and that narrative creates a cultural notion of pride, arrogance and exclusivity that is deeply imprinted in the minds of many devout and religious children, unfortunately, because of how impressionable they are, as you said.

If you accept that notion, that doesn't mean the children are themselves meaner than their secular counterpart, but rather, the poor instruction they received from their elders has caused them to be meaner. Therefore it would be religion that's the problem, but the poor instruction.

[Vulkata II]

Of course I do, because that's the religious instruction I was raised with by my parents and teachers. Of course the possibility is there to warp a child's mind using religion, just like there is a possibility to warp a child's mind using anything. Children are rather impressionable ya know.

That's exactly the point, so many your religious leaders were nuanced, but the reality is most are not. The whole "gays will burn in hell" and "women who sleep around are sinful and promiscuous" is very pervasive, and that narrative creates a cultural notion of pride, arrogance and exclusivity that is deeply imprinted in the minds of many devout and religious children, unfortunately, because of how impressionable they are, as you said.

To be fair Jesus and John the baptist said more or less if i can remember.

"For i tell you this, everyone who represents will go to heaven faster than you will"

Directly to the teachers and priest(my memory stem is dusty again)

[Merala]

All of the studies sans the Guardian one just point to the correlation of high-church membership and the high levels of crime in Latinamerica, as if Mestizos are the best examples of good Christians and not just living contradictions within their own faith.

[Divitaen]

That's exactly the point, so many your religious leaders were nuanced, but the reality is most are not. The whole "gays will burn in hell" and "women who sleep around are sinful and promiscuous" is very pervasive, and that narrative creates a cultural notion of pride, arrogance and exclusivity that is deeply imprinted in the minds of many devout and religious children, unfortunately, because of how impressionable they are, as you said.

To be fair Jesus and John the baptist said more or less if i can remember.

"For i tell you this, everyone who represents will go to heaven faster than you will"

Directly to the teachers and priest(my memory stem is dusty again)

Conservative religious groups always filter out or forget those passages about grace or understanding. Just like the whole "he who casts the first stone", they don't talk about those things when it comes to hating certain enemies like the LGBT rights movement or sexually promiscuous women.

[Menassa]

To be fair Jesus and John the baptist said more or less if i can remember.

"For i tell you this, everyone who represents will go to heaven faster than you will"

Directly to the teachers and priest(my memory stem is dusty again)

Conservative religious groups always filter out or forget those passages about grace or understanding. Just like the whole "he who casts the first stone", they don't talk about those things when it comes to hating certain enemies like the LGBT rights movement or sexually promiscuous women.

That's unfair to say, you don't know all conservative religious groups, some do cherry-pick scripture to form their hate speech, but not all do.

[Vulkata II]

Conservative religious groups always filter out or forget those passages about grace or understanding. Just like the whole "he who casts the first stone", they don't talk about those things when it comes to hating certain enemies like the LGBT rights movement or sexually promiscuous women.

That's unfair to say, you don't know all conservative religious groups, some do cherry-pick scripture to form their hate speech, but not all do.

Did i just say represent? I meant repent

[Divitaen]

Conservative religious groups always filter out or forget those passages about grace or understanding. Just like the whole "he who casts the first stone", they don't talk about those things when it comes to hating certain enemies like the LGBT rights movement or sexually promiscuous women.

That's unfair to say, you don't know all conservative religious groups, some do cherry-pick scripture to form their hate speech, but not all do.

But misogyny and homophobia is indeed very rampant amongst all these conservative denominations. I certainly understand, its the nature of our society because of inherent discriminatory attitudes, but its also true that organised religion often becomes a platform for such bigotry.

[Vulkata II]

That's unfair to say, you don't know all conservative religious groups, some do cherry-pick scripture to form their hate speech, but not all do.

But misogyny and homophobia is indeed very rampant amongst all these conservative denominations. I certainly understand, its the nature of our society because of inherent discriminatory attitudes, but its also true that organised religion often becomes a platform for such bigotry.

One day everyone is going to accept LGBT rights(well they are)just like black rights.

I wont be surprised if a homosexual version of Martin Luther King Jr is happening right now but history repeats itself i guess

[Menassa]

That's unfair to say, you don't know all conservative religious groups, some do cherry-pick scripture to form their hate speech, but not all do.

But misogyny and homophobia is indeed very rampant amongst all these conservative denominations. I certainly understand, its the nature of our society because of inherent discriminatory attitudes, but its also true that organised religion often becomes a platform for such bigotry.

Anything can be a platform for bigotry, organized religion is just one of those 'anythings.'

[Alvecia]

As someone who claims to be all about the science, surely you are aware of the dangers of asserting that some is so based on a single study? Not even a metastudy at that.

[Divitaen]

But misogyny and homophobia is indeed very rampant amongst all these conservative denominations. I certainly understand, its the nature of our society because of inherent discriminatory attitudes, but its also true that organised religion often becomes a platform for such bigotry.

Anything can be a platform for bigotry, organized religion is just one of those 'anythings.'

I agree, I'm just saying that when that organised religion ends up preaching bigotry and exclusion to impressionable young people, it will cloud their attitude towards other people and could influence some, not all, but some, to become more aggressive and arrogant towards others.

[Woodstead]

I noticed that a few posts here are anecdotal and even the OP studies seem to be pretty questionable. I'll add to this collection. I don't think it is so crystal clear as religion or the associated scripture and my experience shows a mix. I think we need to remember there is an element of culture and somewhat individualism too. I have never been religious, and have been raised by a Christian family. I went to Methodist church as a kid despite identifying as an atheist. I'm still an atheist, but I tend to enjoy learning about religions and cultural differences within them.

I went to a very diverse school. Most of my close friends were Muslims and Hindus (mainly female). I got on with a lot of them more than the other children. I don't think it's religion so much as culture. And of course, different friends had different views depending partly on where their parents came from- it seemed to be less determined by religion and scriptures.

A lot of these friends have grown up around myself and others who later came out as LGBT, and (despite any possible underlying beliefs) have remained my strongest friends after leaving. In fact, after uni, many of my LGBT friends from school now often still identify as Muslims in particular. They have a different take on religion to their parents and have often grown up in different countries to their own parents. Some also have different views on how to dress. In fact, many of my female Muslim friends who never wore any head wear now wear hijabs, but also reiterate that it is an individual choice and more of a cultural than religious garment; some others who wore hijabs at a younger age now have decided to ditch it. I think at least in the case of my town in the UK, there is definitely a progressive change culturally, and also challenges literal scripture- especially, it seems, with females Muslims in my area.

Probably one of the clearest divisive issues between the parents of my Muslim friends was arranged marriage- something which many of these friends reiterate is so much more determined by culture and country of origin rather than religious belief.

I then went to university and I must say I had a slightly unfair cautious feeling around Christians. I might have actually been subconsciously trying to get away from them. My university actually had very deep roots in being a Christian college back in the day. Again, anecdotal, but a large percentage of the Christians-especially very recent converts, or those born in to Christian families, seemed to be some of the most tolerant to LGBT issues and could see the value of debating some of the scripture. In fact, the groups of Christians did have a portion of out LGBT people who were accepted and many of them had individualised interpretations of God's gender and imagery of Jesus; e.g. "God is not a he, nor a she". Again, as with the diverse Muslims at school, the Christians had different opinions on issues such as sexual preference. However, even with a small margin who didn't agree with same-sex relationships, they have at least been polite to my face and given me respect for who I am.

Probably the most altruistic activity by the Christian society at my university was offering cheap printing services for dissertations and offering free breakfast on Fridays without even bringing up faith. I often picked up a free breakfast after library all-nighters before my lectures, and was never talked to about religion. I would not argue that this is coercion. I only knew that this was their society, because I happened to know those who run the service, but there's no canvassing or self-promotion.

This is anecdotal, and I expect this may be an exceptional case. I just wanted to present this anecdote as it has challenged my own prejudice especially to Christianity. My belief that religion is so selfish was changed by such experiences, and while I now accept that other intersections determine it. Especially for my experience in a Muslim group, it seems that at least women seem to be incorporating a strong feminist theme in addition to their identification as a 'cultural and religious Muslim'.

Of course, I do know many pretty mean, bigoted people who are very religious- or at least try to justify their ideas through religion, but I also found that non-religious peers at school were also bigoted in similar areas, and often also intolerant to anyone who dares to say they are religious. I'll be the first to admit that such a blanket belief that religion is totally poisonous and deterministic of peoples' actions and beliefs made me quite aggressive towards anyone who dared to call themselves Christian. I now accept that- at least in my part of the world- that I was no better.

I was wondering is some of these themes and trends I see in my groups are similar to others in parts of the UK. Does anyone else know people who are quite self-critical of their scriptures or the teachings of their religion from previous generations?

[Kilobugya]

Doesn't surprise me, since most religions say a variation "you should be good because God said it, and if you aren't good, you go to hell", which is very unefficient, while secularism (or at least, secular humanism, but secularism is mostly a product of the Enlightenment, and therefore on, the humanist variety) teaches why being good is required in itself, not just because of fear of punishment.

[Menassa]

Doesn't surprise me, since most religions say a variation "you should be good because God said it, and if you aren't good, you go to hell", which is very unefficient, while secularism (or at least, secular humanism, but secularism is mostly a product of the Enlightenment, and therefore on, the humanist variety) teaches why being good is required in itself, not just because of fear of punishment.

Teaching children responsibility for their actions is always a bad thing.

#perspective

[Alvecia]

Doesn't surprise me, since most religions say a variation "you should be good because God said it, and if you aren't good, you go to hell", which is very unefficient, while secularism (or at least, secular humanism, but secularism is mostly a product of the Enlightenment, and therefore on, the humanist variety) teaches why being good is required in itself, not just because of fear of punishment.

Teaching children responsibility for their actions is always a bad thing.

#perspective

Eh, hell isn't the best example of that I don't think. It's very far in the future and hard to conceptualise, plus the rules are complex, taught arbitrarily and often contradictory.

[Republic of the Cristo]

Religious children are meaner than their secular counterparts, study finds

Children from religious families are less kind and more punitive than those from non-religious households, according to a new study.

Academics from seven universities across the world studied Christian, Muslim and non-religious children to test the relationship between religion and morality.

They found that religious belief is a negative influence on children’s altruism.

“Overall, our findings ... contradict the commonsense and popular assumption that children from religious households are more altruistic and kind towards others,” said the authors of The Negative Association Between Religiousness and Children’s Altruism Across the World, published this week in Current Biology.

“More generally, they call into question whether religion is vital for moral development, supporting the idea that secularisation of moral discourse will not reduce human kindness – in fact, it will do just the opposite.”

Almost 1,200 children, aged between five and 12, in the US, Canada, China, Jordan, Turkey and South Africa participated in the study. Almost 24% were Christian, 43% Muslim, and 27.6% non-religious. The numbers of Jewish, Buddhist, Hindu, agnostic and other children were too small to be statistically valid.

My Source: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/ ... kids-study\
I believe it is a joke that religious children are being brought up in a such an environment that makes them meaner than their secular counterparts. We need to make laws that restrict the child abuse done to children by religious parents. Abusive parents makes abusive children it makes common sense and to further develop a right moral development we need to make sure children are free from the abuses of a religious lifestyle. Religious people are more violent: http://www.latimes.com/opinion/op-ed/la ... story.html
Commit more crimes: http://www.salon.com/2013/06/12/study_t ... religious/
http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2012/06/22/ ... re-crimes/
Even, inside the church we have abuses. In this day and age it must change, there is evidence ladies and gentleman that it must change, here and now. The question is though, do you think Religious children are meaner than their secular counterparts?

This has been brought up before and by the same source. The consensus was - they are too young for any meaningful data to be extracted.

[Frank Zipper]

I'm going to coin the phrase 'Jumping the snark', for the point when an NSG thread degenerates into pointless bad natured bickering instead of useful discussion. In this case the thread jumped the snark with the OP.

[Olthar]

Makes sense. Kids learn what they see, and a lot of religious people are remarkably hostile to anyone they perceive as being different. Also, religious people tend to be more conservative who tend towards harsher punishments, imbedding the idea that might makes right and fostering more violence.

I'm sure the numbers aren't significant, though; all kids are assholes, anyways.

[Vulkata II]

Makes sense. Kids learn what they see, and a lot of religious people are remarkably hostile to anyone they perceive as being different. Also, religious people tend to be more conservative who tend towards harsher punishments, imbedding the idea that might makes right and fostering more violence.

I'm sure the numbers aren't significant, though; all kids are assholes, anyways.

It's better to put an example for the kids for something more modern.

A 39 year old person saying "Yo" "YOLO" etc for me is just cringy

For me the term Monkey sees monkey do applies to kids and needs to be applied today to be a good person.

In all honestly if i can find the control f key in my brain i think i remember in the bible saying "Be a good role model for everyone to see, let your light fill the room with the glory of God"

More or less, why i made this reply? I just thought it was a good idea

[Olthar]

Makes sense. Kids learn what they see, and a lot of religious people are remarkably hostile to anyone they perceive as being different. Also, religious people tend to be more conservative who tend towards harsher punishments, imbedding the idea that might makes right and fostering more violence.

I'm sure the numbers aren't significant, though; all kids are assholes, anyways.

It's better to put an example for the kids for something more modern.

A 39 year old person saying "Yo" "YOLO" etc for me is just cringy

For me the term Monkey sees monkey do applies to kids and needs to be applied today to be a good person.

In all honestly if i can find the control f key in my brain i think i remember in the bible saying "Be a good role model for everyone to see, let your light fill the room with the glory of God"

More or less, why i made this reply? I just thought it was a good idea

It's is truly hilarious* just how non-Christian today's Christains act. If Jesus came back today, they'd all call him a bleeding-heart liberal, socialist, commie, Muslim and not only ignore his words but actively fight him at every opportunity.

*Sad and depressing