by Trotskylvania » Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:24 pm
Your Friendly Neighborhood Ultra - The Left Wing of the Impossible
Putting the '-sadism' in PosadismKarl Marx, Wage Labour and Capital
Anton Pannekoek, World Revolution and Communist Tactics
Amadeo Bordiga, Dialogue With Stalin
Nikolai Bukharin, The ABC of Communism
Gilles Dauvé, When Insurrections Die"The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss."- Bordiga
by United Dependencies » Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:41 pm
Alien Space Bats wrote:2012: The Year We Lost Contact (with Reality).
Cannot think of a name wrote:Obamacult wrote:Maybe there is an economically sound and rational reason why there are no longer high paying jobs for qualified accountants, assembly line workers, glass blowers, blacksmiths, tanners, etc.
Maybe dragons took their jobs. Maybe unicorns only hid their jobs because unicorns are dicks. Maybe 'jobs' is only an illusion created by a drug addled infant pachyderm. Fuck dude, if we're in 'maybe' land, don't hold back.
by The United Colonies of Earth » Tue Jul 05, 2016 9:59 pm
by Costa Fierro » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:01 pm
United Dependencies wrote:I'm actually going to jump a little earlier than your poll options and say that it was the failure of Germany to knock Britain out of the war before invading Russia.
edit: But to get back on topic, I find myself gaining a greater respect for Russian war planners in the later half of the second world war and the early cold war.
Was this kind of leadership always present? Was it simply repressed by the previous imperial government or was it the imperial governments other inefficiencies that caused the army to perform poorly?
by Genivaria » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:35 pm
United Dependencies wrote:I'm actually going to jump a little earlier than your poll options and say that it was the failure of Germany to knock Britain out of the war before invading Russia.
edit: But to get back on topic, I find myself gaining a greater respect for Russian war planners in the later half of the second world war and the early cold war.
Was this kind of leadership always present? Was it simply repressed by the previous imperial government or was it the imperial governments other inefficiencies that caused the army to perform poorly?
by Mad hatters in jeans » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:35 pm
by Genivaria » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:39 pm
by Genivaria » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:42 pm
Mad hatters in jeans wrote:I would say Stalingrad was the turning point. Oh and wikipedia agrees with me.yay
It was the first time the German command would be defeated on a large scale. To add insult to injury it was a personal failure of Hitler's. When the Germans were trapped in there Hitler ordered that they fight to the last man instead of try a breakout scenario.
It was the first in a long series of Hitler's failures as a military leader, believing his forces should never retreat destroyed the army group and all of it's valuable equipment. And it wasn't a quick battle either, it was drawn out and painful for everyone involved.
Course I wouldn't say it's the reason the Germans lost the war overall. That was mostly down to logistics, with American industry behind the allies it was just a matter of holding the Germans in a multiple front war and bombing their production facilities. And with Britain as a springboard into Europe the outcome was pretty heavily in the allies favour.
It also helped that the German navy was locked up in dockyards, had they had stronger control of the seas earlier in the war the result could have been very different. Lets not forget the massive losses the U-boats inflicted on allied shipping.
by Conserative Morality » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:44 pm
by Genivaria » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:47 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:As soon as Lend-Lease was extended to the SovUnion, Germany was doomed.
by Flarbinia » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:51 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:As soon as Lend-Lease was extended to the SovUnion, Germany was doomed.
by Imperial Idaho » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:56 pm
I'm from the land of Coeur D'alene Idaho.
By Ballot or by Bullet, the Pub Party will win. The Pub Legacy Edition.Ifreann wrote:The Romans placated the people with panem et circenses, bread and circuses. We will placate our people with dank space weed and hyper-HD vidya.Tysoania wrote:You remind me of a mobster who gets things cleared out of the way.
Next up on the Sopranos...
Imperial "Slick" Idaho, the fixer.Bralia wrote:Oh my fucking god. Do it again, guys, you both chose the number 7.
by Conserative Morality » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:56 pm
Genivaria wrote:Soviet: We have many men but no guns.
American: We have many guns but no men.....hmmmm
Germany: I don't like where this is going.
Flarbinia wrote:The Soviet Union would have won the war without American assistance, but Lend-Lease did speed up the process.
by Genivaria » Tue Jul 05, 2016 10:59 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:Genivaria wrote:Soviet: We have many men but no guns.
American: We have many guns but no men.....hmmmm
Germany: I don't like where this is going.
American trucks are glorious hero of Soviet Union.Flarbinia wrote:The Soviet Union would have won the war without American assistance, but Lend-Lease did speed up the process.
I find that questionable, honestly. Had the SovUnion benefited neither from American intervention in the war nor Lend-Lease, it's doubtful that they could've sustained the logistics needed to fuel their great military machine at the same level it did.
by The first Galactic Republic » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:01 pm
by Genivaria » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:03 pm
The first Galactic Republic wrote:A lot of the options are too late. By then the allies were winning.
by Southerly Gentleman » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:15 pm
by Conserative Morality » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:24 pm
Southerly Gentleman wrote:Of all the options available, people are actually saying the Lend-Lease Act was the turning point of WW2??
by Trotskylvania » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:43 pm
United Dependencies wrote:I'm actually going to jump a little earlier than your poll options and say that it was the failure of Germany to knock Britain out of the war before invading Russia.
edit: But to get back on topic, I find myself gaining a greater respect for Russian war planners in the later half of the second world war and the early cold war.
Was this kind of leadership always present? Was it simply repressed by the previous imperial government or was it the imperial governments other inefficiencies that caused the army to perform poorly?
The United Colonies of Earth wrote:I dunno.
United Dependencies' point seems like a good idea. Britain's survival left a foothold for transatlantic reconquista, while the resilient eastern giant with a Russian heart would be able to mobilize its' resources to drown the Germans in a vast land they couldn't easily take. Hopefully anyway.
But then again the British still had the Mediterranean and could possibly mount an assault from there (?), so maybe the Isles weren't as important.
I thought the Battle of Moscow was pretty impressive. Hitler and Stalin were gunning for it and ultimately they couldn't reach it because of the heavy defense there. Same for Stalingrad. Wasn't an entire Army Group annihilated there, at what (I don't remember...) was the furthest east the Germans had reached?
Costa Fierro wrote:Well I'd hazard a guess (based on my own amateur knowledge) was that the planning wasn't present until the mid-to-late-war period because predominant military thinking at that time was more archaic than what the Germans were utilizing. Kursk was more or less a standard attrition battle to break the German offensive but Operation Bagration was an accurate use of German Blitzkrieg combine arms warfare but on a vastly grander scale.
Although for the most part, there were other inefficiencies in the Soviet Army prior to Kursk that were simultaneously addressed, including inferior weaponry (for the most part anyway) as well as a lack of competent officers and strategic planners thanks to Stalin's purges.
Mad hatters in jeans wrote:I would say Stalingrad was the turning point. Oh and wikipedia agrees with me.yay
It was the first time the German command would be defeated on a large scale. To add insult to injury it was a personal failure of Hitler's. When the Germans were trapped in there Hitler ordered that they fight to the last man instead of try a breakout scenario.
It was the first in a long series of Hitler's failures as a military leader, believing his forces should never retreat destroyed the army group and all of it's valuable equipment. And it wasn't a quick battle either, it was drawn out and painful for everyone involved.
Course I wouldn't say it's the reason the Germans lost the war overall. That was mostly down to logistics, with American industry behind the allies it was just a matter of holding the Germans in a multiple front war and bombing their production facilities. And with Britain as a springboard into Europe the outcome was pretty heavily in the allies favour.
It also helped that the German navy was locked up in dockyards, had they had stronger control of the seas earlier in the war the result could have been very different. Lets not forget the massive losses the U-boats inflicted on allied shipping.
Genivaria wrote:Well it was hardly Hitler's first military mistake but it was certainly the first of his major blunders that visibly harmed Germany's chances.
Another was his decision to abandon the strategy of trapping entire Soviet armies in Panzer pincers out of impatience, instead he moved to a strategy of attrition which Germany could never win against the Soviets.
OH! And of course the completely idiotic decision to stall the advance on Moscow in favor of splitting a group off to take Stalingrad which would be a political/symbolic victory at best.
And I don't consider the oil fields there to be a valid reason because he'd have a much easier time seizing the fields in the Middle East.
Your Friendly Neighborhood Ultra - The Left Wing of the Impossible
Putting the '-sadism' in PosadismKarl Marx, Wage Labour and Capital
Anton Pannekoek, World Revolution and Communist Tactics
Amadeo Bordiga, Dialogue With Stalin
Nikolai Bukharin, The ABC of Communism
Gilles Dauvé, When Insurrections Die"The hell of capitalism is the firm, not the fact that the firm has a boss."- Bordiga
by The first Galactic Republic » Tue Jul 05, 2016 11:49 pm
Genivaria wrote:The first Galactic Republic wrote:A lot of the options are too late. By then the allies were winning.
At the point that Operation Barbarossa began the Germans were indisputably winning the war in Europe.
And most of the Operation was very successful for the Germans, but they failed in key areas and completely underestimated the Soviet resolve and reserves.
by Elepis » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:16 am
by United States of Atheism » Wed Jul 06, 2016 12:41 am
by Kisinger » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:29 am
While the Lend Lease programs did help, Russians holding Moscow was a guarantee, with major troop formations already in the area by the time of the German arrival.United States of Atheism wrote:American entry into the war. If the sleeping giant wasn't awoken sir, then Moscow would of fallen.
The Soviets could fight against the Germans, and did for four years, I believe you are looking for the term 'win' because any nation can fight but few know how to or can win one. Soviets never ran out of troops, in fact they had enough troops to go around and only needed equipment(only during the early to mid stages of the war).The commies could not fight against the Nazis, it was a meatgrinder until the soviets ran out of troops.
That was before the war when the Great Purge happened, unless you mean Soviet Generals getting executed for incompetence or being sent off to Gulags in Siberia for the same 'offense'The stupid commies even purged their armies.
Soviets accomplished quite a bit by the time of D-Day, they had acquired strategic initiative, pushed the Germans out of the Soviet Union proper and were well on their way to pushing the Germans all the way to Berlin(which they did the following year and pushed farther in fact).Tccccchhh, historical revisionists think that the soviets accomplished shit, without Dday they would of lost.
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Don't you dare take my other 75% orgasm. I'm a greedy womyn, influenced by the cold hard erection of the patriarchy.
by New Raffica » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:32 am
by New Raffica » Wed Jul 06, 2016 1:33 am
United States of Atheism wrote: Tccccchhh, historical revisionists think that the soviets accomplished shit, without Dday they would of lost.
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