Child Abuse/Corporal Punishment Discussion

[Uxupox]

I do love how so many claim that people from previous generations who were subjected to corporal punishment "turned out just fine", as if a significant percentage of the American population over the age of 26, for example, did not suffer from mental illness.

Mentally illness is not new.

[Liriena]

I do love how so many claim that people from previous generations who were subjected to corporal punishment "turned out just fine", as if a significant percentage of the American population over the age of 26, for example, did not suffer from mental illness.

Mentally illness is not new.

As I said before:

While correlation doesn't equal causation, the veracity of saying that generations raised on corporal punishment "turned out just fine" based on your self-perception is dubious at best.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I would be interested to see if there's even a correlation there. America has shockingly high rates of mental illness across all age groups.
Anyways, previous generations often had better outcomes- which is what they're talking about.

But did they have better outcomes? And did corporal punishment actually have a positive role in this, rather than a plethora of other factors? Because, going by the evidence presented by the OP, and available elsewhere, corporal punishment doesn't really seem to have any sort of long-term positive effects on its victims.

As someone who was under corporal punishment from my grandma I can say no, it doesn't make you better off by using corporal punishment as a staple of discipline, which is what my grandma did.

My dad was far more effective at discipline. Giving us talks and warnings and hardly ever using physical punishment. I won't claim he was perfect, no, but he tried his best in raising us the best he could without using violence. We turned out better than what we would have turned out with my grandma at the reins.

[Norstal]

There's a time and place to use corporal punishment towards your child. For instance, swatting their hand instead of letting themselves burn their hands with a stove, or yanking them out when you see them approaching a deep hole. Even spanking them before they cross the street without paying attention to implant that crossing the street without paying attention = hurt. In short, anything that requires a fast, and effective lesson.

Those first two examples aren't corporal punishment. Corporal punishment has to hurt. I know it's being pedantic, but it has to involve pain. Not mere physical contact.

[Dinake]

I would be interested to see if there's even a correlation there. America has shockingly high rates of mental illness across all age groups.
Anyways, previous generations often had better outcomes- which is what they're talking about.

But did they have better outcomes? And did corporal punishment actually have a positive role in this, rather than a plethora of other factors? Because, going by the evidence presented by the OP, and available elsewhere, corporal punishment doesn't really seem to have any sort of long-term positive effects on its victims.

That would in fact be the question. But regardless of the answer, it does show that corporal punishment doesn't necessarily screw kids up for life.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

But did they have better outcomes? And did corporal punishment actually have a positive role in this, rather than a plethora of other factors? Because, going by the evidence presented by the OP, and available elsewhere, corporal punishment doesn't really seem to have any sort of long-term positive effects on its victims.

That would in fact be the question. But regardless of the answer, it does show that corporal punishment doesn't necessarily screw kids up for life.

It depends on the severity and the frequency of said corporal punishment, though.

Someone who applies corporal punishment frequently, and increases severity each and every time the intended effect doesn't work on children, have higher chances that their kids won't grow up well adapted.

This is where the abusive part is. Children grow tough skin to corporal punishment, who'd have thought?

Personally, that's one reason why I don't intend to use corporal punishment on my kids. It's not because the lesson is not ingrained, but because they grow a tough skin, and so the severity has to increase. Not a good thing for discipline. Yes, I know what I said on the last page about having a "time and place". Just because I understand the times and places when corporal punishment might be a fast option doesn't mean I necessarily agree with its use.

[Imperium Sidhicum]

One argument from Antiquity against disciplining children physically was, curiously enough, proposed by the Gothic king Theodoric, a man who was by no means a stranger to violence.

Theodoric, who reigned shortly after the fall of Rome, was quite enthusiastic about adopting everything Roman. However, he firmly resisted the idea of schooling his son in the Roman way, because "a boy that has learned to fear the birch will never learn not to fear the sword".

Which is a really interesting revelation especially in light of that harsh, brutish age. Perhaps Theodoric's objection to tutors physically disciplining his son was based more in concern of it being unbecoming to subject a prince to beatings like a common slave or peasant. However, his recorded comment on the matter does reveal an interesting insight uncommon to his age.

It would really be interesting to know what parenting and disciplinary techniques did the Barbarians use for their children. As history attests, they clearly succeeded in raising their kids to be anything but weak-willed and effeminate pacifists.