How to solve American education once and for all

[Jolet]

You solve for American education using the quadratic equation.

The solution is everything in the beaker that's not the precipitate.

Duh.

Heh. Chemistry jokes.

You get a gold star for that. Congrats.

[Ethel mermania]

Small class size would help. Keep kids in the same room and let the various teachers circulate from class to class. Mix ages together too; kids leaned just fine that way; the older could help teach and encourage the younger.

The public school in NYC with the most successful graduates was the smallest of all the city schools.

stuyvesent is pretty big

[Arcipelago]

We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave them kids alone
Hey! teachers! leave the kids alone!
All in all it's just a another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just a another brick in the wall.

[Quokkastan]

We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave them kids alone
Hey! teachers! leave the kids alone!
All in all it's just a another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just a another brick in the wall.

That's British education.

[Jolet]

We don't need no education
We don't need no thought control
No dark sarcasm in the classroom
Teachers leave them kids alone
Hey! teachers! leave the kids alone!
All in all it's just a another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just a another brick in the wall.

Message nonwithstanding, that's a great song. Pink Floyd were geniuses.

[Impireacht]

This has to be the least biased poll EVER, it's beautiful! Anyways, yeah let's legalize weed and our average IQ will go through the roof, cause y'know, drugs that mentally impair people make geniuses!

[Jolet]

This has to be the least biased poll EVER, it's beautiful! Anyways, yeah let's legalize weed and our average IQ will go through the roof, cause y'know, drugs that mentally impair people make geniuses!

Well, obviously, that's just Big Pharma influencing you through subliminal brainwashing and mind control. /s

[Takhshiyt]

If you don't support OP's views....

Then you might be a shill!

[Mike the Progressive]

It's really not as in much trouble as everybody seems to think.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/d ... not-097142

If that were true then why are Trump and Clinton about to be the next president?

Same reason leave actually won? Emotions > Reason

[Mike the Progressive]

It's really not as in much trouble as everybody seems to think.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/d ... not-097142

Politico isn't exactly known for being the most reliable source out there. Consider me skeptical, and when the high schools in my area stop having a 33% dropout rate, then I'll maybe consider it to be somewhat valid.

In "your area" is irrelevant. I normally don't critique or praise something nationally based on personal experiences. As for Politico being reliable is irrelevant. The data mentioned in the article is.

[Hebalobia]

Admit it. You were high as f**k when you wrote this.

[The Grim Reaper]

vygotsky or get rekt scaffolded education uber alles

[Freefall11111]

Ima be real, I don't know how forced education can ever work effectivly

It's far better than the alternative.

[The West Maghrebi Jamahiriya]

What about decertifying all the teachers' unions and rolling back everything they accomplished?

[Caspian Load]

You don't solve it. People need to be actively interested in educating themselves in order to fully function. Making school fun works.

[Socialist Nordia]

What about decertifying all the teachers' unions and rolling back everything they accomplished?

How about no.

[Valrifell]

You don't solve it. People need to be actively interested in educating themselves in order to fully function. Making school fun works.

Conversely, we could outlaw anything kids find "fun" these days and make school fun by comparison.

[Caspian Load]

You don't solve it. People need to be actively interested in educating themselves in order to fully function. Making school fun works.

Conversely, we could outlaw anything kids find "fun" these days and make school fun by comparison.

Or you just let them work.

[Alvecia]

I was given the option, so yes, I chose all of the poll options.

Haven't seen the Big Pharma gambit in a while actually.It's like seeing an old friend again.

[Dread Catsylvania]

So according to the poll, the most popular options on NSG are to legalize weed and increase funding for public schools. Sounds surprisingly reasonable.

[Europe and Oceania]

They need to adopt Finland's education model which in case they have one of the best education systems in the world where students
have little or no homework and they got rid of standardized tests. Plus there are no private schools in Finland which is awesome.

[Forsher]

So everyone knows that the American education system is in deep trouble. It is obvious to anyone with half a brain that what we are doing isn't working. But what should be done about it? There seem to be as many answers as political persuasions. Some say that the problem is teacher's unions. Others think that unions should be stronger. Still others say to just privatize the whole system.

I offer a different solution. I think that we already have an example of what works best: Waldorf Schools, aka Steiner education. In such institutions, beyond the rapacious grasp of Big Pharma and their shills, America's youth can thrive anf blossom into beautiful intellectual butterflies. The only thing different in my idea is that we want to teach patriotic values... So how's this for innovation : we can teach them the most Patriotic and truly American thing : Austrian economics. Start at an early age with basic logic and some parables that teach about the virtues of free markets. Get more logical as they get older. By the time the average American gets out of high school, she can prax it out with the best of them. This will lead to a new golden age of prosperity and it will rid the world of pernicious Big Pharma for good. Then we can finally legalize weed and transcend the limits that the patriarchy places on our IQ.

I challenge you to find a single flaw in this policy position. It is the only common sense solution to making America great again like it never was before.

Why should patriotic virtues be taught?

Classrooms have only so much time available. The opportunity cost of patriotic virtues could be, say, maths lessons.

Also, what does prax mean? First hit on a Google search I take it?

Your idea is the most vapid crock of bullshit I've seen on this forum.
Fuck no.

Come now, if this were true you'd be able to explain why.

As you haven't, I infer you can't and, therefore, that it's not true.

The OP's "syllabus" would theoretically teach pupils why the above reasoning is wrong. Therefore, it's actually right.

Also, note prax and the bolded. I suspect a satirical intent.

Proof? Also, IQ doesn't mean anything. One doesn't need a high IQ to be intelligent or creative.

That's not fair. High IQ means you're good at IQ tests... which could well mean you've practised them... which is why your end conclusion is correct.

Guys, this guy is literally called "Summeria".

I think that this is a wonderful parody of people who want to "fix education" without actually spending money on a horrendously underfunded system. Let's be honest, folks: public schools suck because they get no funding, not because they're public. Also, school choice is a joke made for religious indoctrination.

They get funding.

They often get funding positively related to performance. This means you don't get extra resources if your school is performing more poorly. Naturally, more resources don't necessarily mean you are able to do anything useful with them, but they are potentially very useful.

Funding is also often positively related to pupil wealth: if your families are richer, you're richer. That is particularly nuts because it is known that the US (although I believe this is endemic to all Anglosphere countries) has a system which does not build resilience, i.e. familial wealth is a massive predictor of school attainment.

US schools also have this bizarre idea that they exist to provide the community with pseudo-professional sporting entertainment. As far as I remember, these institutions do not turn profits. They certainly wouldn't make an economic profit once you factor in the opportunity cost of time spent in sports, which is time spent "in school". There is also an argument to be made that this obsession reduces several quality of life factors due to its influence on bullying. It's got to go.

School choice is insidious.

Assume that all parents are aspirational (for now, in the same way) but that there are two kinds of parent: those that can act on their aspirations (get their children to some better school) and those that cannot. Assume, furthermore, that those that can are wealthier than those that can't. Under these assumptions, the schools that are perceived as better will get an influx of aspirationally advantaged children. As we noted, wealth is a big predictor of performance. This implies that those schools will do better, which makes them more attractive... and this could actually lead to gentrification (and thus exacerbating this issue of inequity even further: see above). But because of the way the funding works, the outcomes for those "left behind" (yes I used that phrase) get even worse (on average), so those schools come to be seen in even worse lights (potentially so there's a push, "No way is Johnny going there, honey, no way", as well as pull "Honey, this school is the best, Johnny deserves the best, are you listening to me honey???").

One of the outcomes associated with poor performance and a sense of being left behind is disengagement. When these pupils grow up and become parents themselves we have to update our assumptions. Now, we'll still assume that all parents are aspirational but that some of them believe that the system has let them down and cannot help them or their children fulfil those aspirations. This attitude filters through to their children who start school with walls up... which makes teaching them harder, and they're at the schools which are "less able to teach".

Meanwhile, these schools aren't just sitting there taking this crap on the chin. They're trying to get out of it. They've got their trainer doing their best to get the crowd on their side: to give them that impetus to get out of the ropes. In practice, this means they're spending funding trying to get the kind of pupils that will help them make things better for their existing pupils. But wait, it's worse. Eventually they're taking that funding money to just try and maintain roll stability. If they're not at fighting weight, they can't fight at all, and if they can't fight, their kids, the ones who will be at the school no matter what happens to it (short of closing down: and, maybe, not even then*) aren't going to get fed at all.

School choice is insidious... not a joke.

*For example, such pupils may just fall out of the system altogether.

[Forsher]

Ima be real, I don't know how forced education can ever work effectivly

For the vast majority of people, it does. Clearly.

Education is a bit like vaccination... without mandating education, there are a lot of parents who would not actually educate their children in even a way that allows their children to consider educating themselves: you might get the odd Bernard who feels excluded enough by such a society to try, and the odd Helmholtz who just comes to realise the problem but other than that... There's a reason why literacy went up massively* with education systems.

This is also going to get ironic. I go to a university. The programme that I do has three compulsory courses in particular that people condemn. These condemnations often use words/phrases like buzzwords and teaches nothing useful. However, the concept I am about to mention comes from one of those three courses.

What you have to remember about education is that it is a service. To marketers, services are understood to differ to goods in that they are intangible, their production and consumption is inseparable and that they are both perishable and heterogeneous. What we're interested in here is that the attributes of a service that can be assessed are intangible. In particular, marketers talk about "experience qualities": attributes that can be assessed only after purchase and consumption (Dibb, 2013; emphasis mine). Education is all about experience qualities and the fact remains that trying to judge education whilst you are receiving it is folly, because of this.

Now, in the sense of whether or not forced education is generally successful at achieving something like the below?

See, what I didn't want was to turn out boys who would claim in later life to have a deep love of "literature". Or who would talk
in their middle age of the lure of language and their love of words. "Words" said in a reverential way that is somehow... Welsh.

Yeah, that's another question. I think, for the most part, it does not. On the other hand, you can see that Hector did not like this sentiment at all. And, thus, there is the end of that section:

That's what the tosh was for -Gracie Fields, Brief Encounter. It's an antidote. Sheer, calculated silliness.

Or, to get to the start of the matter...

In the timetable, our esteemed headmaster has given these periods the dubious title of "general studies". I will let you into a little secret, boys. There is no such thing as general studies. General studies is a waste of time. Knowledge is not general, it is specific.

In any case, there are ways to try and engage with the disengaged... but you have to remember, people don't find value because it is not generally possible to assess the value. A lot of people really enjoy school. Maybe they are in equal portion to the serially disengaged. Maybe they're not. The point remains: mandatory education, quite simply, does.

Incidentally, if this post convinces you of nothing, at least let it have inspired you to watch that film/read the play on which it was based.

*In other words, living in a literate society is not enough for damn near 100% of the population to be literate.

Small class size would help. Keep kids in the same room and let the various teachers circulate from class to class. Mix ages together too; kids leaned just fine that way; the older could help teach and encourage the younger.

The public school in NYC with the most successful graduates was the smallest of all the city schools.

I am not necessarily convinced that open plan learning is successful... particularly beyond a primary level... but small schools are not desirable. The ability to offer more variety... in terms of subject choice and extension (e.g. try offering a gifted programme with 100 pupils and 5 teachers versus 3000 and however many)... that comes with large schools is not, in any way, outweighed by smaller ratios (which, in any case, are overblown in popular discussion and, again, apply more in primary than secondary contexts).

It's really not as in much trouble as everybody seems to think.

http://www.politico.com/story/2013/09/d ... not-097142

Politico isn't exactly known for being the most reliable source out there. Consider me skeptical, and when the high schools in my area stop having a 33% dropout rate, then I'll maybe consider it to be somewhat valid.

It feels like only yesterday I was quoting this.

The frequent assertions that secondary sources cannot contain facts and are less reliable than primary sources because they were not the accounts of eyewitnesses showed that some candidates used rote answers rather than looking at the sources in front of them.

Oh, it was about two weeks ago.

Also, that your area has a 33% dropout rate means two things. One, your area has a 77% retention rate. Two, your area has a particular retention profile. Extensions to make other points with this fact are inappropriate.

If that were true then why are Trump and Clinton about to be the next president?

Same reason leave actually won? Emotions > Reason

Should I remain or should I go?

I think, given the above is known, the branding of the decision was the an enormous error.