UK Referendum Thread [Moderator Sanctioned]

[Soldati Senza Confini]

[citation needed]

What does that mean?Because I used the word "butthurt"? Oh, get over it.
I really don't think thatyou should be calling on punishment just because of one word, and it wasn't even that bad, really.Get over it. doesn't make sense to silence people becauseyou are offended. :)

I didn't know "citation needed" was literally akin to putting a gun to your head.

[Ifreann]

Who's busy winning and will beat Hillary Clinton in November while self-important bores make unoriginal comments to each other about people better than them?

[citation needed]

Ficks'd.

[Uxupox]

My solution:

-Alba (Scotland) independent (First, I was strongly against. But now, I support it 100%)
-Northern Ireland: Reunion with the Republic (not full integration, but a diffrent statute within the R.O.I.)
-London should be a member of the European Union.

And maby there should be a referendum in Wales Cyumru and Cornwall aswell.

There is no inclination that Northern Ireland wants to unite with Ireland.

[Tobiasia]

(Image)

Also, Sargon made a based video on all of this. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vpo9qzsfL4

Hahahaha I thoroughly enjoyed your hunourous snippet from the LSE. Next time SHOW US THE BIT BEFORE BREXIT. IT WAS MASSIVELY HIGHER, you simply showed us a section of the Brexit plunge.

[Ararat Mountain]

What does that mean?Because I used the word "butthurt"? Oh, get over it.
I really don't think thatyou should be calling on punishment just because of one word, and it wasn't even that bad, really.Get over it. doesn't make sense to silence people becauseyou are offended. :)

I'm not easily offended. I want proof to back up your assertion that it will never make it to parliament.

Ok, sure. Remain lost by 4%, may seem small in percentage but they lost by more than 1,000,000 votes.
You just can't overturn this major decision. And it will not happen.

[Great Nepal]

Its as if people who live, and work abroad have more vested interest in, and are therefore more likely to be involved in campaigns to retain membership of an organisation which makes visiting, living and working abroad easier, while not being scared of foreigners compared to someone who has never left little England.

Oddly, when we lived in Switzerland, my family didn't struggle to get in.
But anyway, this 4.5 million citizens. Does that include children? If it does, then the number of citizens is even lower and gets even more suspicious.

Good I'm glad to hear; meanwhile certain non EU citizens moving to UK have to wait for year, spend quite a large sum of money on fees, while jumping through hoops. Perhaps reason you got into Switzerland so easily was because as European citizen, you are entitled to freedom of movement within EU and associated nations like Switzerland?
I'm not sure, it is a World bank estimate - but again it is entirely possible and plausible that people who live and work abroad including over million people in EU whose very livelihood is threatened by this vote would be more mobilised for this kind of thing.

[Imperializt Russia]

(Image)

Also, Sargon made a based video on all of this. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5vpo9qzsfL4

Hahahaha I thoroughly enjoyed your hunourous snippet from the LSE. Next time SHOW US THE BIT BEFORE BREXIT. IT WAS MASSIVELY HIGHER, you simply showed us a section of the Brexit plunge.

I looked it up myself, and it wasn't hugely. Remember that before the vote, everyone was confident Remain would walk it and the markets rose. We're basically back to where we were about a week ago.

However, we've yet to see how the markets will open on Monday. Or Tuesday, the first full business day after some government statement on what's happening now.

[The Qeiiam Star Cluster]

Hahahaha I thoroughly enjoyed your hunourous snippet from the LSE. Next time SHOW US THE BIT BEFORE BREXIT. IT WAS MASSIVELY HIGHER, you simply showed us a section of the Brexit plunge.

I looked it up myself, and it wasn't hugely. Remember that before the vote, everyone was confident Remain would walk it and the markets rose. We're basically back to where we were about a week ago.

However, we've yet to see how the markets will open on Monday. Or Tuesday, the first full business day after some government statement on what's happening now.

It's the calm before a potentially devasting storm.

[Vassenor]

I'm not easily offended. I want proof to back up your assertion that it will never make it to parliament.

Ok, sure. Remain lost by 4%, may seem small in percentage but they lost by more than 1,000,000 votes.
You just can't overturn this major decision. And it will not happen.

Actually parliament can. It's been established multiple times that this is not a binding referendum.

[New Alyssia]

There is absolutely no evidence to suggest they were British citizens. I'm not claiming the signatories were British, but you are making that claim. Therefore the burden of proof lies on you.

No, you are making the irrational claim.

Therefore, balls still in your court, love.

Your subjective view is that it's irrational for me to not believe in the unsubstantiated claim that all the signatories were British expats??

My view cannot be considered objectively any more or less inherently rational than the view of my opponents. So you cannot claim that either side must supply the evidence based on the idea that one view is, by some unknown standard, more rational than the other.
I am making no claim about who signed the petition, other than that the vast majority were not living in the UK. As already well proven.
My opponent is making an un-evidenced claim. Claiming that all the non-UK signatories were British expats.

Sorry but the ball is not in my court, honey.

[Neu Leonstein]

I looked it up myself, and it wasn't hugely. Remember that before the vote, everyone was confident Remain would walk it and the markets rose. We're basically back to where we were about a week ago.

However, we've yet to see how the markets will open on Monday. Or Tuesday, the first full business day after some government statement on what's happening now.

And can we please stop looking at stock markets? Take the currency or take gilt yields, or even credit spreads. Equities don't mean anything.

[Ifreann]

[citation needed]

Why do you think it'll even go through?

Well it has considerably more than 100,000 signatures, and it's a point of valid concern worth at least some attention in parliament. Even without this petition, some MP or other would probably raise the question of whether 52% is really sufficient to make so serious a change to the nation.

[Tobiasia]

My solution:

-Alba (Scotland) independent (First, I was strongly against. But now, I support it 100%)
-Northern Ireland: Reunion with the Republic (not full integration, but a diffrent statute within the R.O.I.)
-London should be a member of the European Union.

And maby there should be a referendum in Wales Cyumru and Cornwall aswell.

1-Scotland has just lost part of it's 2nd largest trading partner, why would it want to lose it's 1st?
2-Northern Ireland and the ROI have not got on for years, whose to say this won't cause tensions.
3-London become independent is crazy, how would it grow/survive?
4-Wales mainly voted leave anyway, what are you talking about?

The fact is after this horrific decision we must all remain (no pun intended) unified and support each other.

[Imperializt Russia]

No, you are making the irrational claim.

Therefore, balls still in your court, love.

Your subjective view is that it's irrational for me to not believe in the unsubstantiated claim that all the signatories were British expats??

My view cannot be considered objectively any more or less inherently rational than the view of my opponents. So you cannot claim that either side must supply the evidence based on the idea that one view is, by some unknown standard, more rational than the other.
I am making no claim about who signed the petition, other than that the vast majority were not living in the UK. As already well proven.
My opponent is making an un-evidenced claim. Claiming that all the non-UK signatories were British expats.

Sorry but the ball is not in my court, honey.

There is no rational basis to disbelieve it, so your position makes no sense.

[CoraSpia]

Ok, sure. Remain lost by 4%, may seem small in percentage but they lost by more than 1,000,000 votes.
You just can't overturn this major decision. And it will not happen.

Actually parliament can. It's been established multiple times that this is not a binding referendum.

If the tories wish to commit political suicide, then sure I guess.

[Ostroeuropa]

I've spoken to welsh brexiters. The ones I talk to seem to think Jeremy Corbyn is going to fix everything about the economy anyway, and we should be a socialist nation, which the EU won't allow.

They also seem not very informed, as I probed them about what they think his chances of winning are, and their response is that obviously he's going to win, barely anyone they know doesn't support him, and he just makes so much sense.

I didn't have the heart to tell them about polls.

[Tobiasia]

No, you are making the irrational claim.

Therefore, balls still in your court, love.

Your subjective view is that it's irrational for me to not believe in the unsubstantiated claim that all the signatories were British expats??

My view cannot be considered objectively any more or less inherently rational than the view of my opponents. So you cannot claim that either side must supply the evidence based on the idea that one view is, by some unknown standard, more rational than the other.
I am making no claim about who signed the petition, other than that the vast majority were not living in the UK. As already well proven.
My opponent is making an un-evidenced claim. Claiming that all the non-UK signatories were British expats.

Sorry but the ball is not in my court, honey.

Allow me to stupidly wade into the debate. You can only sign the petition IF YOU ARE A BRITISH CITIZEN. You have to give your postcode as well. CASE CLOSED, WHY ARE YOU ARGUING??? Also, where did you get the stats that said that only 350,000 signatories were British?

[San Lumen]

Actually parliament can. It's been established multiple times that this is not a binding referendum.

If the tories wish to commit political suicide, then sure I guess.

Which they are not about to do unless in addition to that they want riots and mass protests.

[Tobiasia]

Actually parliament can. It's been established multiple times that this is not a binding referendum.

If the tories wish to commit political suicide, then sure I guess.

As a Labour supporter I must surely say DO IT, DO IT, DO IT, DO IT!!!

[San Lumen]

Your subjective view is that it's irrational for me to not believe in the unsubstantiated claim that all the signatories were British expats??

My view cannot be considered objectively any more or less inherently rational than the view of my opponents. So you cannot claim that either side must supply the evidence based on the idea that one view is, by some unknown standard, more rational than the other.
I am making no claim about who signed the petition, other than that the vast majority were not living in the UK. As already well proven.
My opponent is making an un-evidenced claim. Claiming that all the non-UK signatories were British expats.

Sorry but the ball is not in my court, honey.

Allow me to stupidly wade into the debate. You can only sign the petition IF YOU ARE A BRITISH CITIZEN. You have to give your postcode as well. CASE CLOSED, WHY ARE YOU ARGUING??? Also, where did you get the stats that said that only 350,000 signatories were British?

because people can fake them. They could google post codes and put in a fake name and address.

[Imperializt Russia]

Your subjective view is that it's irrational for me to not believe in the unsubstantiated claim that all the signatories were British expats??

My view cannot be considered objectively any more or less inherently rational than the view of my opponents. So you cannot claim that either side must supply the evidence based on the idea that one view is, by some unknown standard, more rational than the other.
I am making no claim about who signed the petition, other than that the vast majority were not living in the UK. As already well proven.
My opponent is making an un-evidenced claim. Claiming that all the non-UK signatories were British expats.

Sorry but the ball is not in my court, honey.

Allow me to stupidly wade into the debate. You can only sign the petition IF YOU ARE A BRITISH CITIZEN. You have to give your postcode as well. CASE CLOSED, WHY ARE YOU ARGUING??? Also, where did you get the stats that said that only 350,000 signatories were British?

Metadata attached to the actual petition page.
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215.json
If you search for "United Kingdom", then only about 370,000 signatures appear to be from the UK. Therefore, 2 million must be from outside the UK, right? Except no. When I calculated it myself, there were only 87,000 non-UK "signatures by country".
Don't really understand how.

If you sum the signatories per the 650 UK constituencies, then it totals 2.3 million.

[New Alyssia]

Your subjective view is that it's irrational for me to not believe in the unsubstantiated claim that all the signatories were British expats??

My view cannot be considered objectively any more or less inherently rational than the view of my opponents. So you cannot claim that either side must supply the evidence based on the idea that one view is, by some unknown standard, more rational than the other.
I am making no claim about who signed the petition, other than that the vast majority were not living in the UK. As already well proven.
My opponent is making an un-evidenced claim. Claiming that all the non-UK signatories were British expats.

Sorry but the ball is not in my court, honey.

There is no rational basis to disbelieve it, so your position makes no sense.

Okay, if I'm going to play the game your way, the percentage of expats which would have needed to sign that petition for all signatories to be British expats is ridiculously high. It would be irrational to assume that 100% of the 1.6 million non-UK signatories are expats. Even so, that would assume 35% of all Brits living outside the UK signed that petition, which is clearly a preposterous figure.
It's irrational to believe those figures, so your position makes no sense.

[Ostroeuropa]

On the Scotland point, the Independence campaign made that point repeatedly in their campaign that "Britain might leave the EU, theres a referendum soon. Britain might leave the EU. Independence is the only way to be sure we stay in."

Scotland decided they were comfortable with the risk.

There is no rationale for a second referendum, until the next general election, when the SNP can put it in their platform and achieve a mandate.

[Valaran]

The fact is after this horrific decision we must all remain (no pun intended) unified and support each other.

Bluntly: fuck that, we're not united at all, and I see no reason to support those who brought this on those who did not want it.

[Imperializt Russia]

I stand corrected, it has now updated to 2.40 million UK origin, of 2.494 million signatures.