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UK Referendum Thread [Moderator Sanctioned]

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Greater Mackonia
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Founded: Sep 13, 2011
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Postby Greater Mackonia » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:38 pm

The Qeiiam Star Cluster wrote:
Greater Mackonia wrote:
Residents owe loyalty to other states and are not part of the nation. Its simple as that.

Source?


How the fuck do you expect me to source loyalties which by their nature are private? Did you just sit here, open mouthed, tongue lagging, and watch these great titans of debate spout "Source!" At each other, and your brain suddenly lept upon the idea of mimicking this as the highest standard of debate; its laughably obvious. Not all claims are empirical, I was making an argument. And perhaps I put it in the wrong terms. Residents are not in any way tied to the sovereign entity of the UK, they work and dwell within it and make use of its services at our behest, but remain fundamentally representative of different interests and bodies to that of the "native" population. A Polish migrant who has come to work in Britain, speaks little but Polish and plans to eventually return to Poland has no ties but the self-interest of his particular situation to the United Kingdom.
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Imperializt Russia
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Founded: Jun 03, 2011
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:38 pm

Coraspia wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:Leave voters would not have started a .gov petition, and it would never have gotten this big. Either possibility is absurd.

How would you know this? We're not all computer-hating old people, you know.

Common themes amongst Leave supporters is a dislike of social media activism (though are happy to use such as information sources in response to anti-mainstream media sentiment or, in some cases, simply being ill-informed), anti-establishment and anti-government sentiments. Why would anything but a stark minority of Leave supporters start a non-binding social media petition to the government establishment they dislike?
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Greater Mackonia
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Founded: Sep 13, 2011
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Postby Greater Mackonia » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:39 pm

Ifreann wrote:
Greater Mackonia wrote:
Residents owe loyalty to other states and are not part of the nation. Its simple as that.

Plain, simple, and wrong.


Fartsniffage wrote:
But that isn't how it goes. I'm currently living with an Australian and a Maltese. We all went to vote in Thursday, as is our right in the UK.

It saddens me that people from Malta aren't Maltesers. Though I suppose they probably wouldn't feel the same way.


San Lumen wrote: That's because your a British Citizen. if someone who is for example a German Citizen working in London they should not have say because they are not a UK citizen.

Non-UK citizens were allowed to vote in this referendum. I'm given to understand that tens of thousands of Irish citizens were entitled to vote, though I have no idea how many actually did.



ur wrong because ur wrong!
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:39 pm

Greater Mackonia wrote:
The Qeiiam Star Cluster wrote:Source?


How the fuck do you expect me to source loyalties which by their nature are private? Did you just sit here, open mouthed, tongue lagging, and watch these great titans of debate spout "Source!" At each other, and your brain suddenly lept upon the idea of mimicking this as the highest standard of debate; its laughably obvious. Not all claims are empirical, I was making an argument. And perhaps I put it in the wrong terms. Residents are not in any way tied to the sovereign entity of the UK, they work and dwell within it and make use of its services at our behest, but remain fundamentally representative of different interests and bodies to that of the "native" population. A Polish migrant who has come to work in Britain, speaks little but Polish and plans to eventually return to Poland has no ties but the self-interest of his particular situation to the United Kingdom.


So what you're saying is that we should just take your word for all this?

#listenandbelieve
Last edited by Vassenor on Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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The Qeiiam Star Cluster
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Postby The Qeiiam Star Cluster » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:40 pm

Greater Mackonia wrote:
The Qeiiam Star Cluster wrote:Source?


How the fuck do you expect me to source loyalties which by their nature are private? Did you just sit here, open mouthed, tongue lagging, and watch these great titans of debate spout "Source!" At each other, and your brain suddenly lept upon the idea of mimicking this as the highest standard of debate; its laughably obvious. Not all claims are empirical, I was making an argument. And perhaps I put it in the wrong terms. Residents are not in any way tied to the sovereign entity of the UK, they work and dwell within it and make use of its services at our behest, but remain fundamentally representative of different interests and bodies to that of the "native" population. A Polish migrant who has come to work in Britain, speaks little but Polish and plans to eventually return to Poland has no ties but the self-interest of his particular situation to the United Kingdom.

Well, if you say so it must be true.

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Dejanic
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Postby Dejanic » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:40 pm

Tobiasia wrote:
Dejanic wrote:16 million people voted for remain, so 2 million means nothing, since it's literally just 2 million of the 16 million remain voters who can't let go, exactly the same would of happened if we'd of voted to leave. Labour lost the election in 2015, it wouldn't of meant anything if all the Labour voters decided to start a petition to have a re-election. They lost.

It is possible for them to receive a huge amount of signatures. Many leave voters say they wouldn't have voted leave if they knew they were actually going to win, it was just as a protest. Remain knows it would win a 2nd referendum, so it must try.

Their was 2 people on the news who said that, I'd wager there's a lot more people who were going to vote leave but chickened out due to fear over the Jo Cox murder (which literally wrecked leave in the polls) or were taken back by the absurd WW3/ISIS/Global recession scaremongering from remain.
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Souseiseki
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Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:40 pm

apparently the owner of the daily mail is french domiciled for tax purposes

lol
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

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Vassenor
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Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:41 pm

Souseiseki wrote:apparently the owner of the daily mail is french domiciled for tax purposes

lol


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Greater Mackonia
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Founded: Sep 13, 2011
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Postby Greater Mackonia » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:41 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Greater Mackonia wrote:
How the fuck do you expect me to source loyalties which by their nature are private? Did you just sit here, open mouthed, tongue lagging, and watch these great titans of debate spout "Source!" At each other, and your brain suddenly lept upon the idea of mimicking this as the highest standard of debate; its laughably obvious. Not all claims are empirical, I was making an argument. And perhaps I put it in the wrong terms. Residents are not in any way tied to the sovereign entity of the UK, they work and dwell within it and make use of its services at our behest, but remain fundamentally representative of different interests and bodies to that of the "native" population. A Polish migrant who has come to work in Britain, speaks little but Polish and plans to eventually return to Poland has no ties but the self-interest of his particular situation to the United Kingdom.


So what you're saying is that we should just take your word for all this?

#listenandbelieve


No, I'm making what's called an argument and you respond to these things. This is called a debating forum. And that's what you do here. I'm better at roleplaying than you, I can show you the works there if you'd like.
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Tobiasia
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Founded: Mar 24, 2016
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Postby Tobiasia » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:42 pm

Greater Mackonia wrote:
The Qeiiam Star Cluster wrote:Source?


How the fuck do you expect me to source loyalties which by their nature are private? Did you just sit here, open mouthed, tongue lagging, and watch these great titans of debate spout "Source!" At each other, and your brain suddenly lept upon the idea of mimicking this as the highest standard of debate; its laughably obvious. Not all claims are empirical, I was making an argument. And perhaps I put it in the wrong terms. Residents are not in any way tied to the sovereign entity of the UK, they work and dwell within it and make use of its services at our behest, but remain fundamentally representative of different interests and bodies to that of the "native" population. A Polish migrant who has come to work in Britain, speaks little but Polish and plans to eventually return to Poland has no ties but the self-interest of his particular situation to the United Kingdom.

In your case of the mysterious Polish migrant, they may have loyalty to the UK, as the nation that supported him or her, and as the nation where many of their new friends, or even family, live.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:42 pm

The Qeiiam Star Cluster wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Non-UK citizens were allowed to vote in this referendum. I'm given to understand that tens of thousands of Irish citizens were entitled to vote, though I have no idea how many actually did.

What do you think they would have voted? Remain because they want the UK to stay or Leave because they want to mess with the English?

Remain would be my guess. Fucking with the English probably loses its appeal somewhat when one is living in London or Liverpool.


Greater Mackonia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Plain, simple, and wrong.



It saddens me that people from Malta aren't Maltesers. Though I suppose they probably wouldn't feel the same way.



Non-UK citizens were allowed to vote in this referendum. I'm given to understand that tens of thousands of Irish citizens were entitled to vote, though I have no idea how many actually did.



ur wrong because ur wrong!

*shrug*
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Soldati Senza Confini
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Postby Soldati Senza Confini » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:42 pm

Souseiseki wrote:apparently the owner of the daily mail is french domiciled for tax purposes

lol


:rofl:
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Neu Leonstein
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Postby Neu Leonstein » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:44 pm

Greater Mackonia wrote:ur wrong because ur wrong!

You are literally telling me where my loyalties lie right now. There's nothing I can do but to tell you that you are wrong about them.
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Imperializt Russia
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Founded: Jun 03, 2011
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:45 pm

Souseiseki wrote:apparently the owner of the daily mail is french domiciled for tax purposes

lol

I'm intrigued to see how this works out.
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Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

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Greater Mackonia
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Founded: Sep 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Mackonia » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:45 pm

Neu Leonstein wrote:
Greater Mackonia wrote:ur wrong because ur wrong!

You are literally telling me where my loyalties lie right now. There's nothing I can do but to tell you that you are wrong about them.


Was I replying to you? Reading comprehension again.
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Souseiseki
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Founded: Apr 12, 2012
Psychotic Dictatorship

Postby Souseiseki » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:45 pm

viewtopic.php?p=29161321#p29161321

this really dserved to be in all three threads but i don't want to post it three times and have three seperate discissions so please chek out my cool new link in the scotland thread
ask moderation about reading serious moderation candidates TGs without telling them about it until afterwards and/or apparently refusing to confirm/deny the exact timeline of TG reading ~~~ i hope you never sent any of the recent mods or the ones that got really close anything personal!

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:45 pm

Souseiseki wrote:apparently the owner of the daily mail is french domiciled for tax purposes

lol

Someone tell Jimmy Carr.

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Tobiasia
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Founded: Mar 24, 2016
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Postby Tobiasia » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:46 pm

Dejanic wrote:
Tobiasia wrote:It is possible for them to receive a huge amount of signatures. Many leave voters say they wouldn't have voted leave if they knew they were actually going to win, it was just as a protest. Remain knows it would win a 2nd referendum, so it must try.

Their was 2 people on the news who said that, I'd wager there's a lot more people who were going to vote leave but chickened out due to fear over the Jo Cox murder (which literally wrecked leave in the polls) or were taken back by the absurd WW3/ISIS/Global recession scaremongering from remain.

"Global recession". Take a look at the stock market on your phone. Not quite a recession, but pretty awful. I imagine many leave voters were swayed your way by a quite racist and factually pointless immigration debate. If we want the free market, we have to have immigration.
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:47 pm

Souseiseki wrote:http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=29161321#p29161321

this really dserved to be in all three threads but i don't want to post it three times and have three seperate discissions so please chek out my cool new link in the scotland thread

Wow, knickers that hold it all in.

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Imperializt Russia
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Founded: Jun 03, 2011
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:47 pm

Ifreann wrote:
The Qeiiam Star Cluster wrote:What do you think they would have voted? Remain because they want the UK to stay or Leave because they want to mess with the English?

Remain would be my guess. Fucking with the English probably loses its appeal somewhat when one is living in London or Liverpool.

According to the link this evening (not the one Ostro gave), many living in Australia apparently supported Leave. Obviously, those living in the EU almost certainly supported Remain.
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Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
Also,
Imperializt Russia wrote:I'm English, you tit.

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Greater Mackonia
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Founded: Sep 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Mackonia » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:47 pm

Souseiseki wrote:http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=29161321#p29161321

this really dserved to be in all three threads but i don't want to post it three times and have three seperate discissions so please chek out my cool new link in the scotland thread


And once again we are reminded Scotland is a non-issue unless Westminster is stupid enough to allow for it to become one.
The Agonocracy of Greater Mackonia
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Vassenor
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Founded: Nov 11, 2010
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Vassenor » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:48 pm

Greater Mackonia wrote:
Souseiseki wrote:http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=29161321#p29161321

this really dserved to be in all three threads but i don't want to post it three times and have three seperate discissions so please chek out my cool new link in the scotland thread


And once again we are reminded Scotland is a non-issue unless Westminster is stupid enough to allow for it to become one.


Granting people the right to determine their own future is stupid. Got it.
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Ararat Mountain
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Founded: Jun 04, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Ararat Mountain » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:49 pm

The pound looks like it's stable since yesterday at $1.38.
And FTSE 100 is the same as it was in June.

Just news, I'm no economist but it sure doesn't look like the end times. Please explain what the stable currency means?
Last edited by Ararat Mountain on Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41251
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Fartsniffage » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:49 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Greater Mackonia wrote:
And once again we are reminded Scotland is a non-issue unless Westminster is stupid enough to allow for it to become one.


Granting people the right to determine their own future is stupid. Got it.


Unless they vote to leave the EU, in which case it's a splendid example of democracy in action.
Last edited by Fartsniffage on Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Greater Mackonia
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5085
Founded: Sep 13, 2011
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater Mackonia » Sat Jun 25, 2016 1:49 pm

Vassenor wrote:
Greater Mackonia wrote:
And once again we are reminded Scotland is a non-issue unless Westminster is stupid enough to allow for it to become one.


Granting people the right to determine their own future is stupid. Got it.


Glad we settled it! Great stuff guys!
The Agonocracy of Greater Mackonia
"Show me someone without an ego, and I'll show you a loser."
-Donald J. Trump.

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