UK Referendum Thread [Moderator Sanctioned]

[Neu Leonstein]

because non citizens cant vote. What they think is irrelevant in terms of elections and referendums.

I'm aware that they can't, in a very practical way. I am asking why that is.

Residents should not get a say, its not a matter of their lives being affected, its a matter of national self-interest.

Right... and what is "national self-interest", if it doesn't have to do with the society of a country as a whole (of which all residents form a part)?

[Vassenor]

"It's all about Immigration. It's not about trade or Europe or anything like that, it's all about Immigration. It's to stop the Muslims coming to this country, simple as that."

But there are no racists on the leave side. No sir.

[CoraSpia]

http://i.imgur.com/plFQksq.jpg

If you sum up the country data, there are presently 365,483 "UK" signatures, but every other country added together amounts to only 86,750.

So clearly, it's not the full figures.
the sum of all 650 constituencies is 2,233,767

You can find this easily yourself - the JSON data is available here:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215.json
This website converts JSON data to an Excel CSV file:
https://json-csv.com/
And you can, as I just have, sum all the data fields to establish the totals.

It's nowhere near as unfraudy as an actual registration though. You can enter several times with different post codes and email addresses, and yes, quite a lot of activists are passionate to go that far.

[San Lumen]

because non citizens cant vote. What they think is irrelevant in terms of elections and referendums.

I'm aware that they can't, in a very practical way. I am asking why that is.

Residents should not get a say, its not a matter of their lives being affected, its a matter of national self-interest.

Right... and what is "national self-interest", if it doesn't have to do with the society of a country as a whole (of which all residents form a part)?

So anyone should get to vote in any countries election? Is that what your suggesting?

[Imperializt Russia]

If you sum up the country data, there are presently 365,483 "UK" signatures, but every other country added together amounts to only 86,750.

So clearly, it's not the full figures.
the sum of all 650 constituencies is 2,233,767

You can find this easily yourself - the JSON data is available here:
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/131215.json
This website converts JSON data to an Excel CSV file:
https://json-csv.com/
And you can, as I just have, sum all the data fields to establish the totals.

It's nowhere near as unfraudy as an actual registration though. You can enter several times with different post codes and email addresses, and yes, quite a lot of activists are passionate to go that far.

In a reasonable world, it'd take all of five seconds to establish if a name and postcode are valid or not.

This, however, is quite the leap of logic to make.

[Dejanic]

"It's all about Immigration. It's not about trade or Europe or anything like that, it's all about Immigration. It's to stop the Muslims coming to this country, simple as that."

But there are no racists on the leave side. No sir.

When has anyone said there was no racists on leave side? Can't you distinguish between "not everyone who voted leave is racist" and "no one who voted leave is racist". Are you drunk?

Bob Geldof, is that you mate?

[Ifreann]

Does that matter?

Absolutely, only UK citizens should get a say in the UK remaining a member of the European Union.

What I mean is does that change whether the petition will be responded to by the government or considered for debate in parliament? Is there some rule saying only UK signatures count for those purposes?

---

Them pulling money out is them accepting the results.

No its not. Its them being selfish and only thinking of themselves.

Is that not their right?

[Fartsniffage]

When?

Don't expect a genuine answer that doesn't involve twisting of the facts or outright insults. This is NSG, Karl Marx himself would blush if he read some of the comments these absolute warriors make on a daily basis.

https://inews.co.uk/essentials/news/pol ... um-result/

[CoraSpia]

It's nowhere near as unfraudy as an actual registration though. You can enter several times with different post codes and email addresses, and yes, quite a lot of activists are passionate to go that far.

In a reasonable world, it'd take all of five seconds to establish if a name and postcode are valid or not.

This, however, is quite the leap of logic to make.

It's not done though. It's all automatic, and I've signed up fake name/post code combinations before. What it should do is check it against the electoral role, so you only get eligible voters being able to register their names.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I'm aware that they can't, in a very practical way. I am asking why that is.


Right... and what is "national self-interest", if it doesn't have to do with the society of a country as a whole (of which all residents form a part)?

So anyone should get to vote in any countries election? Is that what your suggesting?

I don't remember him saying that.

Is this like the fact that you think making paper is too costly for referenda?

[Neu Leonstein]

So anyone should get to vote in any countries election? Is that what your suggesting?

No, but anyone who is a permanent resident of a country and can expect to be around for the length of the term of whatever is being elected could reasonably ask why their views aren't being considered. If I work in the UK on my German passport, I am subject to UK laws and policies and I pay taxes that fund UK government spending. It seems reasonable that I should also have a say in the government that rules me, no?

[Souseiseki]

you used to have put your address and stuff in but evidently they changed it since the last time i signed something

[Greater Mackonia]

because non citizens cant vote. What they think is irrelevant in terms of elections and referendums.

I'm aware that they can't, in a very practical way. I am asking why that is.

Residents should not get a say, its not a matter of their lives being affected, its a matter of national self-interest.

Right... and what is "national self-interest", if it doesn't have to do with the society of a country as a whole (of which all residents form a part)?

Residents owe loyalty to other states and are not part of the nation. Its simple as that.

[Imperializt Russia]

In a reasonable world, it'd take all of five seconds to establish if a name and postcode are valid or not.

This, however, is quite the leap of logic to make.

It's not done though. It's all automatic, and I've signed up fake name/post code combinations before. What it should do is check it against the electoral role, so you only get eligible voters being able to register their names.

I disagree, because "debate in parliament" is so far down the list of "meaningful influence" unlike, say, letting a literal child actually vote (though one story is circulated where a man allowed his child to convince him what to vote for the sake of his child - as the man has every right to do) that it's not even funny.

[Vassenor]

I'm aware that they can't, in a very practical way. I am asking why that is.


Right... and what is "national self-interest", if it doesn't have to do with the society of a country as a whole (of which all residents form a part)?

Residents owe loyalty to other states and are not part of the nation. Its simple as that.

So anyone with dual citizenship should be barred from voting too, since they "owe loyalty to other states"?

[Greater Mackonia]

Absolutely, only UK citizens should get a say in the UK remaining a member of the European Union.

What I mean is does that change whether the petition will be responded to by the government or considered for debate in parliament? Is there some rule saying only UK signatures count for those purposes?

---

No its not. Its them being selfish and only thinking of themselves.

Is that not their right?

To my knowledge, it has to be UK postcodes.

[The Qeiiam Star Cluster]

I'm aware that they can't, in a very practical way. I am asking why that is.


Right... and what is "national self-interest", if it doesn't have to do with the society of a country as a whole (of which all residents form a part)?

Residents owe loyalty to other states and are not part of the nation. Its simple as that.

Source?

[San Lumen]

So anyone should get to vote in any countries election? Is that what your suggesting?

No, but anyone who is a permanent resident of a country and can expect to be around for the length of the term of whatever is being elected could reasonably ask why their views aren't being considered. If I work in the UK on my German passport, I am subject to UK laws and policies and I pay taxes that fund UK government spending. It seems reasonable that I should also have a say in the government that rules me, no?

If your not citizen you don't get a say in government. You don't get a say in a referendum or who the Prime Minister is. I;m sorry to be harsh but that's how it goes.

[Ostroeuropa]

you used to have put your address and stuff in but evidently they changed it since the last time i signed something

You still need a UK postcode.

[Imperializt Russia]

I suspect that these are all UK postcodes, hence the constituency list.
Clearly, the "countries" list only monitors the origin of the request to the system.

Hence also why France and Australia have relatively high number of signatories, due to the large number of British expats, invested British expats at that, who live there.

[Ifreann]

In a reasonable world, it'd take all of five seconds to establish if a name and postcode are valid or not.

This, however, is quite the leap of logic to make.

It's not done though. It's all automatic, and I've signed up fake name/post code combinations before. What it should do is check it against the electoral role, so you only get eligible voters being able to register their names.

That's a bit much effort to put into a petition system of no great consequence. It's not like people can go online and overturn court decisions or dissolve the government. So what if a load of foreigners or one very determined activist in Tooting put a bajillion signatures to a petition? If it's a stupid petition they'll ignore it. If it's not they'll debate it in parliament and maybe something will happen and maybe it won't.

[Tobiasia]

The 2nd EU referendum petition is hit over 2.25 million. Let's help make it over 10 million.

[Greater Mackonia]

Residents owe loyalty to other states and are not part of the nation. Its simple as that.

So anyone with dual citizenship should be barred from voting too, since they "owe loyalty to other states"?

Well in my ideal world nobody would vote so we're pursuing a false avenue of inquiry here.

But to entertain you on this issue. No, they would not be excluded as they are British citizens.

[Fartsniffage]

No, but anyone who is a permanent resident of a country and can expect to be around for the length of the term of whatever is being elected could reasonably ask why their views aren't being considered. If I work in the UK on my German passport, I am subject to UK laws and policies and I pay taxes that fund UK government spending. It seems reasonable that I should also have a say in the government that rules me, no?

If your not citizen you don't get a say in government. You don't get a say in a referendum or who the Prime Minister is. I;m sorry to be harsh but that's how it goes.

But that isn't how it goes. I'm currently living with an Australian and a Maltese. We all went to vote in Thursday, as is our right in the UK.

[CoraSpia]

1. Nobody ever claimed their would be 0 immigration from the EU. We claimed we'd be able to control the numbers: promise not broken.
2. We cannot help what Cameron is going to claim. If he's going to lie to the British people, that is his own issue.
3. Nigel Farage has absolutely no say on what Boris Johnson claims. Farage was part of leave.eu, not vote leave, two rival campaigns with often conflicting positions. Also notice how he says it was a 'mistake' not 'wrong.'
4. The fact that the pound crashed so low would not have been anticipated by the leave campaign. I believe a lot of it is also panic selling, so not a longterm crash.