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UK Referendum Thread [Moderator Sanctioned]

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Olerand
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Postby Olerand » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:58 pm

Llamalandia wrote:
Arkolon wrote:The German economy being "pretty awesome" is a total byproduct of the European Union's structure. Namely, the euro is cheaper than the Deutschmark and so German exporters profit greatly from the currency union. Furthermore, the Eurozone allowed easy access to cheap credit for the European periphery, who indebted themselves to take in German capital and to buy more German products. Being in a currency union like the euro also means export-led growth is the only viable way to induce sustainable (ie not cyclical) growth, so in some sense Germans profit from the imbalance in the European economy. Paraphrasing the words of a FT columnist: "huge surpluses are just as bad as huge deficits", but these surpluses keep Germany strong, and the rest of the Eurozone weak. German mentality compels them to think that internal devaluation would do them well, and used the crisis (an Anglo-Saxon creation, in their eyes) to reject Anglo-Saxon economics, notably Keynesianism, which would spur demand and would avoid feeding this self-reinforcing crisis of austerity.

When the Eurocrisis hit the German labour market was malleable enough to absorb most of it, and its exports were more reliant on purchases outside of the European Union - which explains the change in German foreign policy to turn a blind eye to unethical Chinese (or other authoritarian) practices since these people are financing the resilience of the German economy.

Well being Austrian school myself, it sounds to me like german rejection of Keynes is good and it clearly seems to be working well for them. Plus a lot of Eurozone weakness is a result of their own policies which discourage free enterprise and promote socialism.

Socialism... Socialism... Socialism... I know what that means... I just can't see it...
Last edited by Olerand on Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Jul 31, 2016 1:59 pm

Olerand wrote:
Llamalandia wrote:Well being Austrian school myself, it sounds to me like german rejection of Keynes is good and it clearly seems to be working well for them. Plus a lot of Eurozone weakness is a result of their own policies which discourage free enterprise and promote socialism.

Socialism... Socialism... Socialism... I know what that means... I just can't see it...

Do you not subscribe to French socialism?
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Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
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Olerand
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Postby Olerand » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:00 pm

Arkolon wrote:
Llamalandia wrote:Well being Austrian school myself, it sounds to me like german rejection of Keynes is good and it clearly seems to be working well for them. Plus a lot of Eurozone weakness is a result of their own policies which discourage free enterprise and promote socialism.

It isn't going that well: German wages are kept internally depressed and resilience is export-based. It's a pretty shoddy model that's used for the development of low-income countries after the Washington Consensus. For a massive creditor country like Germany, who acts as Europe's banker, the imbalance is one of the root causes of the woes in Europe today.

The IMF is a socialist organization, don't listen to their criticisms.

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Olerand wrote:Socialism... Socialism... Socialism... I know what that means... I just can't see it...

Do you not subscribe to French socialism?

Do I, ideologically (pragmatically I am a social democrat)? Yes.

Does non-Germanic Europe (to any kind of socialism)? Absolutely not.
Last edited by Olerand on Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:01 pm

Farage is a racist pile of human waste, and should never have been allowed near politics.

And if he hadn't then I dare say this split would be a lot more amicable.
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Llamalandia
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Postby Llamalandia » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:14 pm

Olerand wrote:
Llamalandia wrote:Well being Austrian school myself, it sounds to me like german rejection of Keynes is good and it clearly seems to be working well for them. Plus a lot of Eurozone weakness is a result of their own policies which discourage free enterprise and promote socialism.

Socialism... Socialism... Socialism... I know what that means... I just can't see it...

To be fair the Nordics have done pretty well with it as a policy so far.

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Olerand
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Postby Olerand » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:15 pm

Llamalandia wrote:
Olerand wrote:Socialism... Socialism... Socialism... I know what that means... I just can't see it...

To be fair the Nordics have done pretty well with it as a policy so far.

Socialism... Socialism... Nope, none of that. At best, Scandinavia can be identified as social democratic, at best.
Last edited by Olerand on Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Llamalandia
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Postby Llamalandia » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:18 pm

Vassenor wrote:Farage is a racist pile of human waste, and should never have been allowed near politics.

And if he hadn't then I dare say this split would be a lot more amicable.

Seems more like xenophobic perhaps. Racist, ehhh...that's less clear. I mean UKIP is not just the BNP repackaged.

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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:20 pm

Llamalandia wrote:
Ifreann wrote:He hasn't quit the European Parliament. He's resigned as leader of UKIP.

Well given that the whole raison d'être of UKIP and farrage I'm not surprised he left politics. He was really only there to get Britain out of the eu, he did. What else would he do? You can't really get "more out" of the eu. Kinda surprised UKIP still exists for that matter, I mean I guess technically they do have other parts to their platform but really they pretty much accomplished the big goal they had.


I knew this from the start. The entire existence of UKIP was to get out of the EU, and now I expect its slow decline.
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The Liberated Territories
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Postby The Liberated Territories » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:21 pm

Llamalandia wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
After making us an international laughing stock.

Actually like 80% of Americans were pro brexit. See Forbes:http://www.forbes.com/sites/katiesola/2016/06/22/brexit-poll-shows-80-of-americans-think-britain-should-leave-eu/#239cb47862b6


Muricans are big on independence. This is obvious.
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Geilinor
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Postby Geilinor » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:26 pm

Llamalandia wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
After making us an international laughing stock.

Actually like 80% of Americans were pro brexit. See Forbes:http://www.forbes.com/sites/katiesola/2016/06/22/brexit-poll-shows-80-of-americans-think-britain-should-leave-eu/#239cb47862b6

A nonscientific poll with only 30,000 American responses? :rofl:
Last edited by Geilinor on Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:33 pm

Llamalandia wrote:
Vassenor wrote:
After making us an international laughing stock.

Actually like 80% of Americans were pro brexit. See Forbes:http://www.forbes.com/sites/katiesola/2016/06/22/brexit-poll-shows-80-of-americans-think-britain-should-leave-eu/#239cb47862b6

A, polled Americans, B, it's not like most Americans understand the first thing about British or European politics.

I'd bet that most of those polled Americans took UKIP bullshit on face value, or otherwise just inherently assumed something and independence mode kicked in.

Sorry not sorry.
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Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
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Llamalandia
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Postby Llamalandia » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:40 pm

Imperializt Russia wrote:

A, polled Americans, B, it's not like most Americans understand the first thing about British or European politics.

I'd bet that most of those polled Americans took UKIP bullshit on face value, or otherwise just inherently assumed something and independence mode kicked in.

Sorry not sorry.

Well then how can anyone call Britain an "international laughing stock?" A European laughing stock maybe.
Also what's wrog with "independence mode"? Hell haven't you Brits been devolving powers and liberating former colonies for like the past century anyway? Isn't individual self determination a good thing?

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Olerand
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Postby Olerand » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:43 pm

Imperializt Russia wrote:

A, polled Americans, B, it's not like most Americans understand the first thing about British or European politics.

I'd bet that most of those polled Americans took UKIP bullshit on face value, or otherwise just inherently assumed something and independence mode kicked in.

Sorry not sorry.

I love America and I love American polls. I saw in the Democratic primary thread that, according to a poll(!), Republicans who participated were split in three between people who believed that Hillary Clinton did have, those who believed Hillary Clinton did not have, and those who were unsure if Hillary Clinton had ties with Lucifer, Lord of Hell.

I love, but deeply fear, America and its polls.
Last edited by Olerand on Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:49 pm

Llamalandia wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:A, polled Americans, B, it's not like most Americans understand the first thing about British or European politics.

I'd bet that most of those polled Americans took UKIP bullshit on face value, or otherwise just inherently assumed something and independence mode kicked in.

Sorry not sorry.

Well then how can anyone call Britain an "international laughing stock?" A European laughing stock maybe.
Also what's wrog with "independence mode"? Hell haven't you Brits been devolving powers and liberating former colonies for like the past century anyway? Isn't individual self determination a good thing?

What the fuck does the opinion of Americans who probably don't know what the EU is matter?

The American politicians (aside Trump) thought it was dumb, the American banks thought it was dumb, every major financial institution in the UK and Europe thought it was dumb, the Chinese fucking laughed when it was asked at press conference if they were thinking of a special China-UK free trade deal, the Commonwealth don't want fucking in...

Pretty fucking international.

The right to self determination applies where it actually matters.
Leaving the EU? Nah. Cornwall? Nah. Yorkshire? Nah.
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Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
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Baltenstein
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Postby Baltenstein » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:52 pm

Olerand wrote:snip


In order to not derail this thread further, I think we can discuss the topic again when a "Greek politics/elections" thread pops up.
Last edited by Baltenstein on Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Olerand
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Postby Olerand » Sun Jul 31, 2016 2:52 pm

Baltenstein wrote:
Olerand wrote:snip


In order to not derail this thread further, I think we can discuss the topic again when a "Greek politics/elections" thread pops up.

Agreed.
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Llamalandia
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Postby Llamalandia » Sun Jul 31, 2016 3:09 pm

Imperializt Russia wrote:
Llamalandia wrote:Well then how can anyone call Britain an "international laughing stock?" A European laughing stock maybe.
Also what's wrog with "independence mode"? Hell haven't you Brits been devolving powers and liberating former colonies for like the past century anyway? Isn't individual self determination a good thing?

What the fuck does the opinion of Americans who probably don't know what the EU is matter?

The American politicians (aside Trump) thought it was dumb, the American banks thought it was dumb, every major financial institution in the UK and Europe thought it was dumb, the Chinese fucking laughed when it was asked at press conference if they were thinking of a special China-UK free trade deal, the Commonwealth don't want fucking in...

Pretty fucking international.

The right to self determination applies where it actually matters.
Leaving the EU? Nah. Cornwall? Nah. Yorkshire? Nah.

America runs the world. Plus who cares what these "experts think". Kinda kidding. Leaving the eu was good though and it is strong signal against world government.

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Zeinbrad
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Postby Zeinbrad » Sun Jul 31, 2016 3:40 pm

Llamalandia wrote:
Imperializt Russia wrote:What the fuck does the opinion of Americans who probably don't know what the EU is matter?

The American politicians (aside Donald "I promise not to talk about your massive plastic surgeries" Trump) thought it was dumb, the American banks thought it was dumb, every major financial institution in the UK and Europe thought it was dumb, the Chinese fucking laughed when it was asked at press conference if they were thinking of a special China-UK free trade deal, the Commonwealth don't want fucking in...

Pretty fucking international.

The right to self determination applies where it actually matters.
Leaving the EU? Nah. Cornwall? Nah. Yorkshire? Nah.

America runs the world. Plus who cares what these "experts think". Kinda kidding. Leaving the eu was good though and it is strong signal against world government.

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Vassenor
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Postby Vassenor » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:32 am

Ireland calls for EU drug agency to be moved from London to Dublin

So that's another thing Vote Leave specifically said would never happen that's happening.
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:39 am

None of this matters so long as we get a handle on immigration.
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Dooom35796821595
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Postby Dooom35796821595 » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:43 am

Vassenor wrote:Ireland calls for EU drug agency to be moved from London to Dublin

So that's another thing Vote Leave specifically said would never happen that's happening.


How low the standards for reporting are, no link to source material, no official statement, no clarification on the requirements to host the EMA.
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Postby Alvecia » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:50 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:None of this matters so long as we get a handle on immigration.

Is the EU able to regulate the immigration of non EU peoples into EU countries? On a country by country basis or in general?
Like, can they say "EU member nation number 5 is only allowed to take in 10,000 people from any non-EU countries", or " Only 100,000 people will be allowed to emigrate to the EU in total"?

Genuine question btw, I don't know.
Last edited by Alvecia on Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:51 am

Vassenor wrote:Ireland calls for EU drug agency to be moved from London to Dublin

So that's another thing Vote Leave specifically said would never happen that's happening.

gib euro drugs pls

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:52 am

Alvecia wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:None of this matters so long as we get a handle on immigration.

Is the EU able to regulate the immigration of non EU peoples into EU countries? On a country by country basis or in general?
Like, can they say "EU member nation number 5 is only allowed to take in 10,000 people from any non-EU countries", or " Only 100,000 people will be allowed to emigrate to the EU in total"?

Genuine question btw, I don't know.

No.

If they could, "THE EWE IS STEALING OUT SOVEREIGNTY" types might have had a point.
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Lamadia wrote:dangerous socialist attitude
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Ostroeuropa
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Postby Ostroeuropa » Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:54 am

Alvecia wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:None of this matters so long as we get a handle on immigration.

Is the EU able to regulate the immigration of non EU peoples into EU countries? On a country by country basis or in general?
Like, can they say "EU member nation number 5 is only allowed to take in 10,000 people from any non-EU countries", or " Only 100,000 people will be allowed to emigrate to the EU in total"?

Genuine question btw, I don't know.


It's a country by country basis, which is where the absurdity of the EU comes from. It's why a lot of Europe now hates Merkel for kicking open the door to her country. While """refugees""" can be, theoretically, tied down in one area, there are no border controls between many EU states. Further, a lot of people don't believe the """refugees""" will ever leave.

Merkels decision to up and declare that the entire third world can come to Europe if they pretend to be Syrian or Somalian effectively meant all of Europe had no borders at all, not with eachother, and not with the outside world.

Oh, except for white people and eastasians.
Last edited by Ostroeuropa on Tue Aug 02, 2016 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
Ostro.MOV

There is an out of control trolley speeding towards Jeremy Bentham, who is tied to the track. You can pull the lever to cause the trolley to switch tracks, but on the other track is Immanuel Kant. Bentham is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Critique of Pure Reason. Kant is clutching the only copy in the universe of The Principles of Moral Legislation. Both men are shouting at you that they have recently started to reconsider their ethical stances.

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