UK Referendum Thread [Moderator Sanctioned]

[Dooom35796821595]

1) 51.9% isn't a "consensus" - even Boris Johnson has acknowledged that a "softly, softly" approach is called for to preserve national unity.
2) Just because the nation voted Leave doesn't mean that each constituency did. Labour and SNP MPs can vote Remain in Parliament with a clear conscience, because that's their party platform and they were elected on it. Tory MPs whose constituencies voted Remain can follow suit, on the basis of their constituents' expressed wishes. Good luck stitching together a majority out of what's left.
3) I believe that, as it is, the Lords can't "block" most bills per se - they can only delay them, and by no more than month (in the case of budgets) or one year (for most other bills). What's more, the Salisbury Convention would most likely apply, meaning that most of the Lords would refuse to block an Act to invoke Article 50, whatever their personal feelings on the matter.

Paradoxically, you're likely to have more trouble assembling a Commons majority for an immediate invocation of Article 50, than you will one in the Lords.

Yeah 52% is so not a consensus it's not even funny.

Yes, it is a majority. It is not a consensus.

consensus
kənˈsɛnsəs/
noun
noun: consensus; plural noun: consensuses
a general agreement.
"there is a growing consensus that the current regime has failed"
synonyms: agreement, harmony, concord, like-mindedness, concurrence, consent, common consent, accord, unison, unity, unanimity, oneness, solidarity, concert More
"there was consensus among most delegates"
general opinion/view, majority opinion/view, common opinion/view
"the consensus was that the Government should act now"
antonyms: disagreement, minority view

51.9=consensus.

[Imperializt Russia]

No. A supermajority would be a consensus. 52% is "clear disagreement", but a slim majority.

Most of your synonyms:
"synonyms: agreement, harmony, concord, like-mindedness, concurrence, consent, common consent, accord, unison, unity, unanimity, oneness, solidarity, concert"
Suggest "consensus" to be very high agreement.

[Gauthier]

No. A supermajority would be a consensus. 52% is "clear disagreement", but a slim majority.

It's a supermajority as long as you agree with it. *nod*

[Dooom35796821595]

No. A supermajority would be a consensus. 52% is "clear disagreement", but a slim majority.

We can argue opinions, but the word consensus isn't defined by what percentage over 50%. It might be slim, but it's still there.

[Imperializt Russia]

No. A supermajority would be a consensus. 52% is "clear disagreement", but a slim majority.

We can argue opinions, but the word consensus isn't defined by what percentage over 50%. It might be slim, but it's still there.

Consensus is "general agreement".
A slim majority is not general agreement.

There will be a consensus amongst remain voters and leave voters that they voted in what they thought was their best interest. There was not a "consensus" to leave the EU.

[Dooom35796821595]

We can argue opinions, but the word consensus isn't defined by what percentage over 50%. It might be slim, but it's still there.

Consensus is "general agreement".
A slim majority is not general agreement.

There will be a consensus amongst remain voters and leave voters that they voted in what they thought was their best interest. There was not a "consensus" to leave the EU.

It was the general agreement among the voters that leaving the EU was the best course of action.
There was a 51.9% consensus among the voters that leaving the EU was the best course of action.

Words are like statistics, they can have very loose meaning on their own.

[New Chalcedon]

Yeah 52% is so not a consensus it's not even funny.

Yes, it is a majority. It is not a consensus.

consensus
kənˈsɛnsəs/
noun
noun: consensus; plural noun: consensuses
a general agreement.
"there is a growing consensus that the current regime has failed"
synonyms: agreement, harmony, concord, like-mindedness, concurrence, consent, common consent, accord, unison, unity, unanimity, oneness, solidarity, concert More
"there was consensus among most delegates"
general opinion/view, majority opinion/view, common opinion/view
"the consensus was that the Government should act now"
antonyms: disagreement, minority view

51.9=consensus.

No, 51.9% is not indicative of "general" agreement. It's indicative of a closely-divided electorate.

Don't get me wrong: The people had their say, and more preferred to Leave than Remain, so the government should act on it. But carefully, and while taking into account the concerns of the Remain voters.

[New Chalcedon]

Consensus is "general agreement".
A slim majority is not general agreement.

There will be a consensus amongst remain voters and leave voters that they voted in what they thought was their best interest. There was not a "consensus" to leave the EU.

It was the general agreement among the voters that leaving the EU was the best course of action.
There was a 51.9% consensus among the voters that leaving the EU was the best course of action.

Words are like statistics, they can have very loose meaning on their own.

Not on this occasion. I have never seen "general agreement", "consensus" or similar terms used to describe a situation in which people were divided 52-48. Not once. In fact, reporting on (to name one counterexample) the scientific consensus avoided that term ("consensus") until one side of the debate had well more than 90% of credentialed scientists.

[Imperializt Russia]

It was the general agreement among the voters that leaving the EU was the best course of action.
There was a 51.9% consensus among the voters that leaving the EU was the best course of action.

Words are like statistics, they can have very loose meaning on their own.

Not on this occasion. I have never seen "general agreement", "consensus" or similar terms used to describe a situation in which people were divided 52-48. Not once. In fact, reporting on (to name one counterexample) the scientific consensus avoided that term ("consensus") until one side of the debate had well more than 90% of credentialed scientists.

As I scientist, I feel the need to point out that science has a radically different consideration for what constitutes support, and evidentiary backing.

[New Chalcedon]

Not on this occasion. I have never seen "general agreement", "consensus" or similar terms used to describe a situation in which people were divided 52-48. Not once. In fact, reporting on (to name one counterexample) the scientific consensus avoided that term ("consensus") until one side of the debate had well more than 90% of credentialed scientists.

As I scientist, I feel the need to point out that science has a radically different consideration for what constitutes support, and evidentiary backing.

True, but I was referring to laypersons' reporting of the scientific community's opinion on AGW. It wasn't referred to as a "consensus" until those scientists who supported (some flavour of) the theory of AGW vastly outnumbered the theory's detractors.

[Souseiseki]

So, let me get this straight… the leader of the opposition campaigned to stay but secretly wanted to leave, so his party held a non-binding vote to shame him into resigning so someone else could lead the campaign to ignore the result of the non-binding referendum which many people now think was just angry people trying to shame politicians into seeing they’d all done nothing to help them.

Meanwhile, the man who campaigned to leave because he hoped losing would help him win the leadership of his party, accidentally won and ruined any chance of leading because the man who thought he couldn’t lose, did – but resigned before actually doing the thing the vote had been about. The man who’d always thought he’d lead next, campaigned so badly that everyone thought he was lying when he said the economy would crash – and he was, but it did, but he’s not resigned, but, like the man who lost and the man who won, also now can’t become leader. Which means the woman who quietly campaigned to stay but always said she wanted to leave is likely to become leader instead.

Which means she holds the same view as the leader of the opposition but for opposite reasons, but her party’s view of this view is the opposite of the opposition’s. And the opposition aren’t yet opposing anything because the leader isn’t listening to his party, who aren’t listening to the country, who aren’t listening to experts or possibly paying that much attention at all. However, none of their opponents actually want to be the one to do the thing that the vote was about, so there’s not yet anything actually on the table to oppose anyway. And if no one ever does do the thing that most people asked them to do, it will be undemocratic and if any one ever does do it, it will be awful.

Clear?

[Imperializt Russia]

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk_eu_referendum2016
Doesn't feel horrendously off-base to me.

[Geilinor]

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk_eu_referendum2016
Doesn't feel horrendously off-base to me.

left-of-centre social liberals eg Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn

They think Corbyn is a social liberal (as in the ideology).

[Freefall11111]

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk_eu_referendum2016
Doesn't feel horrendously off-base to me.

More evidence the political compass is absolutely cancerous.

[MERIZoC]

https://www.politicalcompass.org/uk_eu_referendum2016
Doesn't feel horrendously off-base to me.

left-of-centre social liberals eg Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn

They think Corbyn is a social liberal (as in the ideology).

Seems more like they're saying socially liberal, given the context.

[Imperializt Russia]

Socially liberal - apparently not being a social liberal.

The left has too many identically-termed political ideologies.

[MERIZoC]

Socially liberal - apparently not being a social liberal.

The left political science has too many identically-termed political ideologies.

ftfy

[Myrensis]

Well, I suppose it was inevitable.

[Freefall11111]

Well, I suppose it was inevitable.

The hilarious/sad thing is that this isn't far off reality. Everything since the day of the referendum has been an utter joke. What next? Farage comes out as a closet European federalist? Cameron joins the Labour party and wins their leadership election? The Greens become relevant?

Okay, maybe that last one is a bit far fetched.

[TomKirk]

A lot of MPs are from areas which voted to remain who I'd imagine would be quite popular locally regardless of their national popularity, also unless I'm mistaken it'd have to pass through House of Lords (since it is neither a financial bill nor one promised before last election) who obviously don't have to worry about reelections.

Cameron could advise Her Majesty to withhold assent

Or she could deal with all these politicians more directly

[Souseiseki]

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/8 ... and-brexit

POLICE SCOTLAND has claimed that it has not witnessed any increase in the reportage of hate crimes in Scotland in the aftermath of the UK’s vote to leave the EU.

nice...

[Gauthier]

https://www.commonspace.scot/articles/8731/police-scotland-no-rise-hate-crime-scotland-brexit

POLICE SCOTLAND has claimed that it has not witnessed any increase in the reportage of hate crimes in Scotland in the aftermath of the UK’s vote to leave the EU.

nice...

Well they *did* vote Remain instead of Leave So We Can Boot Those Damn Muzzies.

[Ifreann]

Don't you mean

Gove them more power

Bad Ifreann. Bad, bad Ifreann.

I apologise for nothing.

---

when the economy goes to shit and populists right-wing parties get into power based on scapegoating immigrants, certain religious minorities and foreign powers while everyone puts their fingers in their ears and goes lalalalla all we will have is glorious gove memes

so we better get used to it

Swing low, sweet Michael Gove
Coming for to leave the EU
Swing low, sweet Michael Gove
Coming for to take back control

---

Consensus is "general agreement".
A slim majority is not general agreement.

There will be a consensus amongst remain voters and leave voters that they voted in what they thought was their best interest. There was not a "consensus" to leave the EU.

It was the general agreement among the voters that leaving the EU was the best course of action.
There was a 51.9% consensus among the voters that leaving the EU was the best course of action.

Words are like statistics, they can have very loose meaning on their own.

Which is why you appealed to the definition of the word "consensus" to make your point that 52 to 48 is a consensus, even though the definition of the word "consensus" does not support that. Because words mean whatever is politically convenient to you can be interpreted many ways.

[Souseiseki]

http://www.bloomberg.com/view/articles/ ... rom-brexit

good job guys

[Souseiseki]

i'd also like to give a shout out to our friends in russia, who seem to donate a lot to UKIP and the FN. it's really really nice of them to help us gain our independence and take our country back. not sure why they get such a bad rep.