Mr. President, do NOT ban assault weapons!

[Washington Resistance Army]

I know exactly what 5.56 is capable of and I'm not in the least bit worried about overpenetrations, especially given I keep that mag loaded with subsonic rounds.

My guns have never negatively impacted anyone, minus myself one time where I had a small accident with a slide.

There are two widely different main groups of gun owners. Those with good intent and those with ill intent. Most of the good intent rarely hurt or impact anyone in any way, though there are terrible accidents that happen (mostly due to being new to guns or slipping up in locking them.) Most of the ill intent do have an impact. There's about a 60-40 ratio in favor of good intent.

Yeah, no. In the US it's a 99.999-0.001 ratio in favor of good intent. There's some 400 million privately owned guns with some 100 million gun owners, and around 10,000 homicides if we don't break down the numbers to remove DGU's and other lawful killings. Not to mention the majority of gun crime is committed with weapons acquired illegally IIRC, just over half come from illegal sources and a good portion of the remainder comes from legally dubious areas.

[The Enclave Government]

There are two widely different main groups of gun owners. Those with good intent and those with ill intent. Most of the good intent rarely hurt or impact anyone in any way, though there are terrible accidents that happen (mostly due to being new to guns or slipping up in locking them.) Most of the ill intent do have an impact. There's about a 60-40 ratio in favor of good intent.

Yeah, no. In the US it's a 99.999-0.001 ratio in favor of good intent. There's some 400 million privately owned guns with some 100 million gun owners, and around 10,000 homicides if we don't break down the numbers to remove DGU's and other lawful killings. Not to mention the majority of gun crime is committed with weapons acquired illegally IIRC, just over half come from illegal sources and a good portion of the remainder comes from legally dubious areas.

It's much harder to find stats on ill intent due to - as you said - majority of gun crime is commited with weapons acquired illegally.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Yeah, no. In the US it's a 99.999-0.001 ratio in favor of good intent. There's some 400 million privately owned guns with some 100 million gun owners, and around 10,000 homicides if we don't break down the numbers to remove DGU's and other lawful killings. Not to mention the majority of gun crime is committed with weapons acquired illegally IIRC, just over half come from illegal sources and a good portion of the remainder comes from legally dubious areas.

It's much harder to find stats on ill intent due to - as you said - majority of gun crime is commited with weapons acquired illegally.

Even if we assume that all gun crime are committed with legally purchased guns the ratio is still stupidly lopsided in the favor of good intent.

The extreme majority of gun owners are law abiding, it's nonsense to spend time attacking us.

[Imperializt Russia]

It's much harder to find stats on ill intent due to - as you said - majority of gun crime is commited with weapons acquired illegally.

Even if we assume that all gun crime are committed with legally purchased guns the ratio is still stupidly lopsided in the favor of good intent.

The extreme majority of gun owners are law abiding, it's nonsense to spend time attacking us.

This is like saying the majority of car owners are law abiding, therefore car registration is nonsense. Or that the majority of people are courteous and capable drivers, so getting a licence is nonsense.

This is about harm and about risk. Firearms, not controlled, present a great amount of risk for a great amount of harm.

[The Enclave Government]

It's much harder to find stats on ill intent due to - as you said - majority of gun crime is commited with weapons acquired illegally.

Even if we assume that all gun crime are committed with legally purchased guns the ratio is still stupidly lopsided in the favor of good intent.

The extreme majority of gun owners are law abiding, it's nonsense to spend time attacking us.

I'm not. I'm just saying there's no abject need for assault weapons.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Even if we assume that all gun crime are committed with legally purchased guns the ratio is still stupidly lopsided in the favor of good intent.

The extreme majority of gun owners are law abiding, it's nonsense to spend time attacking us.

This is like saying the majority of car owners are law abiding, therefore car registration is nonsense. Or that the majority of people are courteous and capable drivers, so getting a licence is nonsense.

This is about harm and about risk. Firearms, not controlled, present a great amount of risk for a great amount of harm.

I wouldn't really mind seeing registration go away tbh, but I'm just weird like that.

Even if we assume that all gun crime are committed with legally purchased guns the ratio is still stupidly lopsided in the favor of good intent.

The extreme majority of gun owners are law abiding, it's nonsense to spend time attacking us.

I'm not. I'm just saying there's no abject need for assault weapons.

Sure, there's no abject need for most things really. Why arbitrarily draw the line? If I can own an RPG why can't I own an AR?

[Imperializt Russia]

This is like saying the majority of car owners are law abiding, therefore car registration is nonsense. Or that the majority of people are courteous and capable drivers, so getting a licence is nonsense.

This is about harm and about risk. Firearms, not controlled, present a great amount of risk for a great amount of harm.

I wouldn't really mind seeing registration go away tbh, but I'm just weird like that.

Because insurance. Theft. Crime.
That's why cars are registered.

RPGs are fine because there's nearly none, they're absurdly expensive, and they're registered as destructive devices. The potential for harm has been greatly reduced.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I wouldn't really mind seeing registration go away tbh, but I'm just weird like that.

Because insurance. Theft. Crime.
That's why cars are registered.

RPGs are fine because there's nearly none, they're absurdly expensive, and they're registered as destructive devices. The potential for harm has been greatly reduced.

Don't worry, we're slowly changing that

Though the DD community is currently more focused on starting to pump out mortars for sale first.

[Imperializt Russia]

I heard from a guy I would trust on the matter, a number of years ago, that there were either four or sixteen RPG-7D launchers in the US. Not sure how that can be changed without repealing Hughes (assuming Hughes is the no new registries post-1986?).

[Gun Manufacturers]

Bigger supply is incredibly debatable, it's pretty commonly believed that the AR platform is the single most popular gun in the US with some 10 million+ of them. That isn't even adding other scary black guns to the mix.

I use a rifle all the time in life, obviously not as my carry gun but for range trips, competition shooting (though I haven't done much of this lately), my designated home defense gun should the need ever arise etc.

Why on god's green earth you're using a 5.56mm rifle for home defense befuddles me. That round isn't just going to stop in the guy unless you have hollowpoint rounds, in which case that's a tad overkill.

Also, i'm not saying guns don't have entertainment purposes. But I think their negative impact significgantly outweighs it.

It seems to work OK for the US Military, and they use FMJ rounds.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I heard from a guy I would trust on the matter, a number of years ago, that there were either four or sixteen RPG-7D launchers in the US. Not sure how that can be changed without repealing Hughes (assuming Hughes is the no new registries post-1986?).

I don't have hard numbers on RPG's but it's safe to assume it's fairly low, though I can say (in several more months) me and a friend will hold one of the live and original D's. Hughes only applies to machine guns, anything else is good to go. NFA stuff has been exploding over the past few years so manufacturers are starting to move into that stuff again. 40mm launchers have become pretty popular and from some very knowledgeable members of the DD community I know larger stuff like 60mm mortars might start getting made again soon.

I personally want to also make grenade/rocket launchers in the future.

[Imperializt Russia]

Because until the M855A1 (and I'm still not 100% certain even on that), they didn't use solid slugs for FMJ, it had significant post-penetration effects.

[Gun Manufacturers]

I heard from a guy I would trust on the matter, a number of years ago, that there were either four or sixteen RPG-7D launchers in the US. Not sure how that can be changed without repealing Hughes (assuming Hughes is the no new registries post-1986?).

Hughes covers full auto/select fire weapons. Other NFA items aren't affected by it.

[Zoice]

Why is the idea that most gun deaths are suicides a barrier to banning guns?

Not so much a barrier as an example of the gun-grabber penchant for misinformation and distortion of facts.

Fact is, even including suicides in the count still doesn't put the negative outcomes of gun ownership anywhere NEAR the positives.

What exactly are the positives of gun ownership?

[Spirit of Hope]

Not so much a barrier as an example of the gun-grabber penchant for misinformation and distortion of facts.

Fact is, even including suicides in the count still doesn't put the negative outcomes of gun ownership anywhere NEAR the positives.

What exactly are the positives of gun ownership?

1) Self defense. There are at least 60,000 or so people a year who defend themselves with a gun.
2) Sport use. Tens of millions of people use guns safely to target, skeet, and competition shoot every year.
3) Hunting. Which both provides food and helps control animal populations.

[Big Jim P]

What exactly are the positives of gun ownership?

1) Self defense. There are at least 60,000 or so people a year who defend themselves with a gun.
2) Sport use. Tens of millions of people use guns safely to target, skeet, and competition shoot every year.
3) Hunting. Which both provides food and helps control animal populations.

Thank you for the back-up.

[Zoice]

What exactly are the positives of gun ownership?

1) Self defense. There are at least 60,000 or so people a year who defend themselves with a gun.
2) Sport use. Tens of millions of people use guns safely to target, skeet, and competition shoot every year.
3) Hunting. Which both provides food and helps control animal populations.

1) About 67,000, but for every criminal killed justifiably with a gun, 34 innocents die. And about 200,000 guns being stolen every year, I would guess at least in part due to how omnipresent they are. It seems like generally an incredibly unlikely scenario that isn't helped all that much by having a gun.
2 and 3) Sure, if you want to, but you don't need handguns or high capacity magazines or open or concealed carry for that.

[Big Jim P]

1) Self defense. There are at least 60,000 or so people a year who defend themselves with a gun.
2) Sport use. Tens of millions of people use guns safely to target, skeet, and competition shoot every year.
3) Hunting. Which both provides food and helps control animal populations.

1) About 67,000, but for every criminal killed justifiably with a gun, 34 innocents die. And about 200,000 guns being stolen every year, I would guess at least in part due to how omnipresent they are. It seems like generally an incredibly unlikely scenario that isn't helped all that much by having a gun.
2 and 3) Sure, if you want to, but you don't need handguns or high capacity magazines or open or concealed carry for that.

1: Not all self defense results in a killing or even shots fired (nor are all of them reported when shots are not fired).
Source on the 200,000 stolen guns?

2&3: Nor is there any reason to restrict either.

[Spirit of Hope]

1) Self defense. There are at least 60,000 or so people a year who defend themselves with a gun.
2) Sport use. Tens of millions of people use guns safely to target, skeet, and competition shoot every year.
3) Hunting. Which both provides food and helps control animal populations.

1) About 67,000, but for every criminal killed justifiably with a gun, 34 innocents die. And about 200,000 guns being stolen every year, I would guess at least in part due to how omnipresent they are. It seems like generally an incredibly unlikely scenario that isn't helped all that much by having a gun.
2 and 3) Sure, if you want to, but you don't need handguns or high capacity magazines or open or concealed carry for that.

1. I don't have to kill a criminal to stop them. You should note for every innocent person killed by guns, 6 people use a gun to defend themselves. This is should also note are the minimum estimates out there, some good as high as 1 or 2 million DGU, I tend to go for the studies that say in the hundred thousand range.
2. Actually you do need handguns and high capacity magazines for sport shooting, three gun, handgun competitions, and more exist. Plus going after high capacity magazines is stupid, the average shooting has less than 4 shots fired, and does nothing for mass shootings.
3. If your going after varmints high capacity magazines are nice, and so.excited people carry handguns while hunting. Is nice incase a predator decides to hunt you.

[Stormopolis]

I think we need to address the question why America has a such a problem with guns while other countries do not. What makes America so special in this regard?

[Zoice]

1) About 67,000, but for every criminal killed justifiably with a gun, 34 innocents die. And about 200,000 guns being stolen every year, I would guess at least in part due to how omnipresent they are. It seems like generally an incredibly unlikely scenario that isn't helped all that much by having a gun.
2 and 3) Sure, if you want to, but you don't need handguns or high capacity magazines or open or concealed carry for that.

1: Not all self defense results in a killing or even shots fired (nor are all of them reported when shots are not fired).
Source on the 200,000 stolen guns?

2&3: Nor is there any reason to restrict either.

1) http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/fshbopc0510pr.cfm

1.4 million guns stolen over 6 years averages to 200,000ish each year.

You're correct that not all gun defense incidents are fatal, but neither are all gun hussling incidents where the gun is used in intimidation. I don't think it is fair to compare ALL gun defenses with just the fatal portion of non-defense gun incidents.

1) About 67,000, but for every criminal killed justifiably with a gun, 34 innocents die. And about 200,000 guns being stolen every year, I would guess at least in part due to how omnipresent they are. It seems like generally an incredibly unlikely scenario that isn't helped all that much by having a gun.
2 and 3) Sure, if you want to, but you don't need handguns or high capacity magazines or open or concealed carry for that.

1. I don't have to kill a criminal to stop them. You should note for every innocent person killed by guns, 6 people use a gun to defend themselves. This is should also note are the minimum estimates out there, some good as high as 1 or 2 million DGU, I tend to go for the studies that say in the hundred thousand range.
2. Actually you do need handguns and high capacity magazines for sport shooting, three gun, handgun competitions, and more exist. Plus going after high capacity magazines is stupid, the average shooting has less than 4 shots fired, and does nothing for mass shootings.
3. If your going after varmints high capacity magazines are nice, and so.excited people carry handguns while hunting. Is nice incase a predator decides to hunt you.

2) Sports I'll grant that, but my answer would be that they be legal for sports only, and you keep the magazines at the club or range locked away always when they aren't in use. I don't see how it could hurt to have small magazines in general life. Most shootings use only a few shots, sure, but there are plenty of firefights that still use more, and the more encumbered or distracted the shooter is with reloading frequently or having to carry the extra magazines, the better. Though that wouldn't be an issue if he can just grab a loaded gun from elsewhere on his body, that's still a delay in the shooting compared to if he still had shots left.

3) Bear spray. More seriously, do you really need to carry huge magazines for hunting? I've never hunted, but I would imagine that once you shoot everything runs the fuck away and you don't really much time to be shooting before you need to track it down again, plenty of time to reload your magazine.

[Zoice]

I think we need to address the question why America has a such a problem with guns while other countries do not. What makes America so special in this regard?

It would be really helpful if Congress wouldn't strong-arm the CDC into not investigating gun violence. Whatever side you take on gun control, if you're opposing research into the subject that's a red flag that you're mote interested in ideology than facts, and that you're a jackass.

[Licana]

It would be really helpful if Congress wouldn't strong-arm the CDC into not investigating gun violence. Whatever side you take on gun control, if you're opposing research into the subject that's a red flag that you're mote interested in ideology than facts, and that you're a jackass.

“We’re going to systematically build a case that owning firearms causes deaths. We’re doing the most we can do, given the political realities.” - A statement made by a section head of the CDC regarding a potential gun violence "investigation."

Your position is that Congress is the one strong arming them? Maybe they were just more interested in facts rather than ideology.

[Spirit of Hope]

1. I don't have to kill a criminal to stop them. You should note for every innocent person killed by guns, 6 people use a gun to defend themselves. This is should also note are the minimum estimates out there, some good as high as 1 or 2 million DGU, I tend to go for the studies that say in the hundred thousand range.
2. Actually you do need handguns and high capacity magazines for sport shooting, three gun, handgun competitions, and more exist. Plus going after high capacity magazines is stupid, the average shooting has less than 4 shots fired, and does nothing for mass shootings.
3. If your going after varmints high capacity magazines are nice, and so.excited people carry handguns while hunting. Is nice incase a predator decides to hunt you.

2) Sports I'll grant that, but my answer would be that they be legal for sports only, and you keep the magazines at the club or range locked away always when they aren't in use. I don't see how it could hurt to have small magazines in general life. Most shootings use only a few shots, sure, but there are plenty of firefights that still use more, and the more encumbered or distracted the shooter is with reloading frequently or having to carry the extra magazines, the better. Though that wouldn't be an issue if he can just grab a loaded gun from elsewhere on his body, that's still a delay in the shooting compared to if he still had shots left.

3) Bear spray. More seriously, do you really need to carry huge magazines for hunting? I've never hunted, but I would imagine that once you shoot everything runs the fuck away and you don't really much time to be shooting before you need to track it down again, plenty of time to reload your magazine.

Why should magazine sizes be restricted? Once again across all shootings, whenever a gun is fired criminally, the average is less than 4 shots. Reloading a firearm with a new magazine takes seconds, so magazine size plays little role in mass shootings or firefights.

There is no reason to restrict them besides misunderstanding and fear.

[Big Jim P]

1: Not all self defense results in a killing or even shots fired (nor are all of them reported when shots are not fired).
Source on the 200,000 stolen guns?

2&3: Nor is there any reason to restrict either.

1) http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/press/fshbopc0510pr.cfm

1.4 million guns stolen over 6 years averages to 200,000ish each year.

You're correct that not all gun defense incidents are fatal, but neither are all gun hussling incidents where the gun is used in intimidation. I don't think it is fair to compare ALL gun defenses with just the fatal portion of non-defense gun incidents.

Thanks. I read the source. Some interesting points from it (emphasis mine):

These estimates are based on data from the annual National Crime Victimization Survey (NCVS) which has collected information from victims of crime since 1973.

"Estimates", much like the often derided "estimates" of the prevalence of DGUs

From 2005 through 2010, firearms were stolen in about four percent of the 2.4 million household burglaries and in less than one percent of the 13.6 million other property crimes involving a completed theft that occurred during the period.

From less than one to 2.4 percent. Not a very high rate.

Longer trends from 1994 to 2010 show a 49 percent decline in the total number of victimizations involving the theft of at least one firearm, from about 283,600 victimizations in 1994 to about 145,300 in 2010.

Dropping, along with the overall crime rate. Good.

When you compare all gun incidents, the legitimate defense estimates range from 60,000 to 3 million, while the largest estimates for criminal use I have seen (posted here in another gun control thread. I cannot remember if it was sourced or not) was 400,000.

I would really like better numbers from non-biased sources to use (for both sides of this argument), but finding non-biased sources is damn near impossible.