Orlando Nightclub Shooting

[Patridam]

Everything on the shooting to come out has come out, so I'm not sure what's left here, but the aftermath.

One example - Owen Jones, a gay writer and left-wing columnist appeared on Sky News (right-wing TV news channel - think as British Fox but less overt if that helps you), and walked off in disgust over what he felt was a whitewash of the nature of the attack - an attack against an LGBT venue, against its largely LGBT patrons.
He wrote an article on what he felt.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -sexuality

It was an attack against LGTB people and against human beings and the freedom of all people to try to enjoy themselves. I watched it, and to be honest, I think it's ridiculous to claim that what happened was an attempt to "ignore homophobia."

He was claiming ownership of it being attack, as in, "it is only an attack on gay people". It was an attack on the LGBT community yes, but it was an attack on Americans in general, and an attack on non muslims, and probably more. He could have argued that the affront against the LGBT's morseo than anything else, and I'd be inclined to agree - but shouting "YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT" and running off in disgust because somebody doesn't agree with you, and then run off to the journalistic equivalent of a safe space where you can write your opinion without any sort of debate... it's... it's certainly NOT how you get others to see your point of view.

It's a problem I see a lot with liberal and LGBT politics, where if you're not 100%, off the bat, agreeing with them, then you're not worth their time to have a discussion with. It makes their points of view feel very elitist to an outsider.

[Utceforp]

http://www.france24.com/en/20160613-rus ... do-tribute

TL;DR, Newspaper editor Islam Abdullabeckov and his boyfriend Felix Glyukman were arrested in Moscow for leaving flowers and a sign outside the US embassy in response to the shooting.

[Utceforp]

It was an attack against LGTB people and against human beings and the freedom of all people to try to enjoy themselves. I watched it, and to be honest, I think it's ridiculous to claim that what happened was an attempt to "ignore homophobia."

He was claiming ownership of it being attack, as in, "it is only an attack on gay people". It was an attack on the LGBT community yes, but it was an attack on Americans in general, and an attack on non muslims, and probably more. He could have argued that the affront against the LGBT's morseo than anything else, and I'd be inclined to agree - but shouting "YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT" and running off in disgust because somebody doesn't agree with you, and then run off to the journalistic equivalent of a safe space where you can write your opinion without any sort of debate... it's... it's certainly NOT how you get others to see your point of view.

It's a problem I see a lot with liberal and LGBT politics, where if you're not 100%, off the bat, agreeing with them, then you're not worth their time to have a discussion with. It makes their points of view feel very elitist to an outsider.

What you think the point he was making is literally the opposite of the point he was making.

It is possible for an atrocity to be more than one thing at the same time. You are not compelled to select one option or the other.

[Luminesa]

http://www.france24.com/en/20160613-russian-gay-couple-arrested-orlando-tribute

TL;DR, Newspaper editor Islam Abdullabeckov and his boyfriend Felix Glyukman were arrested in Moscow for leaving flowers and a sign outside the US embassy in response to the shooting.

What the flip, Moscow? Why? They were just doing something sweet in remembrance of the victims!

[Noraika]

The thing that gets me is that this gunman was quite literally just a "normal person", for lack of any other words due to tiredness.

He had a wife and child, and was generally inconspicuous to those around him. What freaks me out, is that for each of the two people who've done, or planned to commit, these atrocities, there's probably at least 100 people who want to, or have made plans to, do the same. For these to also be carried out in spaces once thought to be among the safer places for LGBT+ people, such as LGBT+ pubs and Pride events, is just scary.

There's a constant feeling that I've had about most people, since these attacks happened, that there is nowhere, and almost no-one, is safe. Anyone is another potential gunman, and overall I don't feel safe, I'm pretty consistently afraid, and my interactions with people, even when logically I don't see a reason to be, are colored with a sense of fear and dread. Despite the fact that I live almost on the other side of the country.

Just needed to get that off my chest.

[Luminesa]

The thing that gets me is that this gunman was quite literally just a "normal person", for lack of any other words due to tiredness.

He had a wife and child, and was generally inconspicuous to those around him. What freaks me out, is that for each of the two people who've done, or planned to commit, these atrocities, there's probably at least 100 people who want to, or have made plans to, do the same. For these to also be carried out in spaces once thought to be among the safer places for LGBT+ people, such as LGBT+ pubs and Pride events, is just scary.

There's a constant feeling that I've had about most people, since these attacks happened, that there is nowhere, and almost no-one, is safe. Anyone is another potential gunman, and overall I don't feel safe, I'm pretty consistently afraid, and my interactions with people, even when logically I don't see a reason to be, are colored with a sense of fear and dread. Despite the fact that I live almost on the other side of the country.

Just needed to get that off my chest.

Nah, I'd say this guy was not quite "normal". Most people did not cheer when 9/11 happened, unlike this guy. He had problems. Severe ones.

The best way to destroy terrorism is to continue living, to continue loving others, and to not be afraid. Terrorists are mean, nasty bullies who want to be the most feared kids on the playground, and if the other kids just ignore them, they become powerless.

[The Black Forrest]

The thing that gets me is that this gunman was quite literally just a "normal person", for lack of any other words due to tiredness.

He had a wife and child, and was generally inconspicuous to those around him. What freaks me out, is that for each of the two people who've done, or planned to commit, these atrocities, there's probably at least 100 people who want to, or have made plans to, do the same. For these to also be carried out in spaces once thought to be among the safer places for LGBT+ people, such as LGBT+ pubs and Pride events, is just scary.

There's a constant feeling that I've had about most people, since these attacks happened, that there is nowhere, and almost no-one, is safe. Anyone is another potential gunman, and overall I don't feel safe, I'm pretty consistently afraid, and my interactions with people, even when logically I don't see a reason to be, are colored with a sense of fear and dread. Despite the fact that I live almost on the other side of the country.

Just needed to get that off my chest.

He wasn't "normal" by any stretch. Some of the stories make it sound like he was bipolar. The ex-wife's family had to do an intervention and even wrestle her from him.

[Oneracon]

It was an attack against LGTB people and against human beings and the freedom of all people to try to enjoy themselves. I watched it, and to be honest, I think it's ridiculous to claim that what happened was an attempt to "ignore homophobia."

He was claiming ownership of it being attack, as in, "it is only an attack on gay people". It was an attack on the LGBT community yes, but it was an attack on Americans in general, and an attack on non muslims, and probably more. He could have argued that the affront against the LGBT's morseo than anything else, and I'd be inclined to agree - but shouting "YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT" and running off in disgust because somebody doesn't agree with you, and then run off to the journalistic equivalent of a safe space where you can write your opinion without any sort of debate... it's... it's certainly NOT how you get others to see your point of view.

It's a problem I see a lot with liberal and LGBT politics, where if you're not 100%, off the bat, agreeing with them, then you're not worth their time to have a discussion with. It makes their points of view feel very elitist to an outsider.

I think the walking off was a bit much, but the way the other people on the SkyNews program were talking about it was still incredibly disrespectful. They were literally refusing to entertain the thought that this was an attack on gender and sexual minorities and instead forcing it into a narrative about "attacks on freedom of expression", talking over him and accusing him of "taking ownership of horror".

We're seeing essentially a repeat of "All Lives Matter", people who have no business making it all about themselves deciding they are going to anyway.

[Nibian]

My heart goes out to the families of the victims and the LGBT+ community. It is wrong for people to be treated this way, just because they have different thoughts and feelings.

[Camicon]

It was an attack against LGTB people and against human beings and the freedom of all people to try to enjoy themselves. I watched it, and to be honest, I think it's ridiculous to claim that what happened was an attempt to "ignore homophobia."

He was claiming ownership of it being attack, as in, "it is only an attack on gay people". It was an attack on the LGBT community yes, but it was an attack on Americans in general, and an attack on non muslims, and probably more. He could have argued that the affront against the LGBT's morseo than anything else, and I'd be inclined to agree - but shouting "YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT" and running off in disgust because somebody doesn't agree with you, and then run off to the journalistic equivalent of a safe space where you can write your opinion without any sort of debate... it's... it's certainly NOT how you get others to see your point of view.

It's a problem I see a lot with liberal and LGBT politics, where if you're not 100%, off the bat, agreeing with them, then you're not worth their time to have a discussion with. It makes their points of view feel very elitist to an outsider.

That's not what happened. The Sky News anchors were trying to claim that this was an attack against, essentially, "freedom", and not against LGBT people in particular. And Jones didn't "[run] off in disgust" when the anchors didn't agree with him, he walked away from an "interview" where they repeatedly shouted him down and refused to let him explain his position.

This wasn't a case of "liberal and LGBT politics" not engaging with an opposing view because it is an opposing view; this was a man walking away from an attempt by two individuals to use him as a prop in their transparent attempt to manipulate the narrative around a truly horrific event so that it reinforces their objectively incorrect worldview.

You can disagree with his walking off, but at least don't lie about why he walked off.

[Sack Jackpot Winners]

Looks like Barney Frank is in favor of increased surveillance on radical Muslims.

[Freefall11111]

Looks like Barney Frank is in favor of increased surveillance on Muslims.

Not all Muslims.

[Utceforp]

http://www.france24.com/en/20160613-russian-gay-couple-arrested-orlando-tribute

TL;DR, Newspaper editor Islam Abdullabeckov and his boyfriend Felix Glyukman were arrested in Moscow for leaving flowers and a sign outside the US embassy in response to the shooting.

What the flip, Moscow? Why? They were just doing something sweet in remembrance of the victims!

The sad part is as far as I can tell Putin has spoken against the attacks, without recognizing his hypocrisy. The cognitive dissonance of the people who want to use this to attack Islam but at the same time want to continue discriminating against homosexuals is astounding.

[Geilinor]

Looks like Barney Frank is in favor of increased surveillance on Muslims.

That's not really what he said.

"There is an Islamic element here," he told the Times. "Yes, the overwhelming majority of Muslims don'€™t do this, but there is clearly, sadly, an element in the interpretation of Islam that has some currency, some interpretation in the Middle East that encourages killing people -€” and L.G.B.T. people are on that list. And I think it is fair to ask leaders of the Islamic community, religious and otherwise, to spend some time combatting this."

He means surveillance on people like Mateen.

[Sack Jackpot Winners]

Looks like Barney Frank is in favor of increased surveillance on Muslims.

Not all Muslims.

My mistake, edited to add "radical".

However, this is still a step in an interesting direction.

[Luminesa]

What the flip, Moscow? Why? They were just doing something sweet in remembrance of the victims!

The sad part is as far as I can tell Putin has spoken against the attacks, without recognizing his hypocrisy. The cognitive dissonance of the people who want to use this to attack Islam but at the same time want to continue discriminating against homosexuals is astounding.

Just the fact that they arrested them for a kind gesture...Geez, I mean, it's not like they were even being loud or disruptive in any way. They just left flowers. I mean...c'mon Putin. Just...c'mon.

[The Princes of the Universe]

We have reactionaries using the victims to push banning people on the basis of religion and/or ethnicity. We have the pseudo-left trying to use them to justify gun-grabbing. Both groups need to shut the fuck up. The bodies of those who didn't make it aren't even cold yet, for fuck's sake, and they're not your political props in any case!

[Patridam]

It is possible for an atrocity to be more than one thing at the same time. You are not compelled to select one option or the other.

That's not what he was saying on TV, that's what he wrote later.

[Gauthier]

http://www.france24.com/en/20160613-russian-gay-couple-arrested-orlando-tribute

TL;DR, Newspaper editor Islam Abdullabeckov and his boyfriend Felix Glyukman were arrested in Moscow for leaving flowers and a sign outside the US embassy in response to the shooting.

What the flip, Moscow? Why? They were just doing something sweet in remembrance of the victims!

It's called "Fighting Terrorism," get it right.

[Val Halla]

The thing that gets me is that this gunman was quite literally just a "normal person", for lack of any other words due to tiredness.

He had a wife and child, and was generally inconspicuous to those around him. What freaks me out, is that for each of the two people who've done, or planned to commit, these atrocities, there's probably at least 100 people who want to, or have made plans to, do the same. For these to also be carried out in spaces once thought to be among the safer places for LGBT+ people, such as LGBT+ pubs and Pride events, is just scary.

There's a constant feeling that I've had about most people, since these attacks happened, that there is nowhere, and almost no-one, is safe. Anyone is another potential gunman, and overall I don't feel safe, I'm pretty consistently afraid, and my interactions with people, even when logically I don't see a reason to be, are colored with a sense of fear and dread. Despite the fact that I live almost on the other side of the country.

Just needed to get that off my chest.

I know people hate us. What annoys me is that it takes a major event like this for people to act like they're on our side, then will no doubt go back to ignoring queerphobic violence and general discrimination.

I'm also annoyed at the complete lack of respect the people around me have shown but it's not like people being dicks is surprising

[Minzerland]

Looks like Barney Frank is in favor of increased surveillance on radical Muslims.

At least he's talking and working to combat the Radical Islamic elements, instead of ignoring it outright and screaming, 'It's not all Muslims!!'.

[Gauthier]

The thing that gets me is that this gunman was quite literally just a "normal person", for lack of any other words due to tiredness.

He had a wife and child, and was generally inconspicuous to those around him. What freaks me out, is that for each of the two people who've done, or planned to commit, these atrocities, there's probably at least 100 people who want to, or have made plans to, do the same. For these to also be carried out in spaces once thought to be among the safer places for LGBT+ people, such as LGBT+ pubs and Pride events, is just scary.

There's a constant feeling that I've had about most people, since these attacks happened, that there is nowhere, and almost no-one, is safe. Anyone is another potential gunman, and overall I don't feel safe, I'm pretty consistently afraid, and my interactions with people, even when logically I don't see a reason to be, are colored with a sense of fear and dread. Despite the fact that I live almost on the other side of the country.

Just needed to get that off my chest.

I know people hate us. What annoys me is that it takes a major event like this for people to act like they're on our side, then will no doubt go back to ignoring queerphobic violence and general discrimination.

I'm also annoyed at the complete lack of respect the people around me have shown but it's not like people being dicks is surprising

It's opportunism at its finest. The only thing they hate more than LGBTs are Muslims so when this happened they got to act like they were on the side of LGBTs all along and wailing crocodile tears while bemoaning how the country is too SJW to crack down on the Muslim Menace.

[Patridam]

He was claiming ownership of it being attack, as in, "it is only an attack on gay people". It was an attack on the LGBT community yes, but it was an attack on Americans in general, and an attack on non muslims, and probably more. He could have argued that the affront against the LGBT's morseo than anything else, and I'd be inclined to agree - but shouting "YOU'RE NOT GETTING IT" and running off in disgust because somebody doesn't agree with you, and then run off to the journalistic equivalent of a safe space where you can write your opinion without any sort of debate... it's... it's certainly NOT how you get others to see your point of view.

It's a problem I see a lot with liberal and LGBT politics, where if you're not 100%, off the bat, agreeing with them, then you're not worth their time to have a discussion with. It makes their points of view feel very elitist to an outsider.

That's not what happened. The Sky News anchors were trying to claim that this was an attack against, essentially, "freedom", and not against LGBT people in particular. And Jones didn't "[run] off in disgust" when the anchors didn't agree with him, he walked away from an "interview" where they repeatedly shouted him down and refused to let him explain his position.

This wasn't a case of "liberal and LGBT politics" not engaging with an opposing view because it is an opposing view; this was a man walking away from an attempt by two individuals to use him as a prop in their transparent attempt to manipulate the narrative around a truly horrific event so that it reinforces their objectively incorrect worldview.

You can disagree with his walking off, but at least don't lie about why he walked off.

Anyone should be prepared for an interview to become a debate when they go on TV if they have an opinion different from the talking head of the station. It happens when liberals go on conservative stations, and when conservative stations. He had a point and they weren't exactly making it easy for him to explain it, but he respected their point even less then they did his - "YOU JUST DON'T GET IT."

[Utceforp]

We have reactionaries using the victims to push banning people on the basis of religion and/or ethnicity. We have the pseudo-left trying to use them to justify gun-grabbing. Both groups need to shut the fuck up. The bodies of those who didn't make it aren't even cold yet, for fuck's sake, and they're not your political props in any case!

Saying "maybe we should restrict gun ownership" isn't politicization, it's attempting to find a solution to the problem. The people who are using this to push for discriminatory policies and xenophobia are politicizing the tragedy though, especially since most of them are homophobes themselves.

[Luminesa]

What the flip, Moscow? Why? They were just doing something sweet in remembrance of the victims!

It's called "Fighting Terrorism," get it right.

Because arresting people for leaving roses, in memory of terror victims, will totally stop terrorism.