Orlando Nightclub Shooting

[Gauthier]

Timothy McVeigh was a Muslim now?

Did he kill anyone for Christ?

And Omar Mateen was a faithful Muslim to the end despite getting piss drunk at Pulse and pledging allegiance at the last minute to jihadi groups that hate each other.

That was in response to the claim that only Muslims blow up buildings, by the way.

[Olerand]

Did he kill anyone for Christ?

And Omar Mateen was a faithful Muslim to the end despite getting piss drunk at Pulse and pledging allegiance at the last minute to jihadi groups that hate each other.

That was in response to the claim that only Muslims blow up buildings, by the way.

No, he wasn't. But he did kill for Allah. Did McVeigh kill for Jesus?

Again, I'm in no way trying to absolve Christian crimes, of which there are many. But McVeigh isn't one of them.

[Gauthier]

Timothy McVeigh was a Muslim now?

He named himself as a Christian Warrior and claimed the lives he took were for his God now? Well the story sure has changed since his racist turner diaries inspiration days...could you source this?

"Only Muslims blow up buildings."
"Timothy McVeigh"
"Did Timothy McVeigh say he did it for God?"

I love telescopic goalposts.

[Gauthier]

And Omar Mateen was a faithful Muslim to the end despite getting piss drunk at Pulse and pledging allegiance at the last minute to jihadi groups that hate each other.

That was in response to the claim that only Muslims blow up buildings, by the way.

No, he wasn't. But he did kill for Allah. Did McVeigh kill for Jesus?

Again, I'm in no way trying to absolve Christian crimes, of which there are many. But McVeigh isn't one of them.

And a couple of girls tried to kill another for Slenderman but nobody sees it as proof of Slendermanism being a problem.

[PaNTuXIa]

He named himself as a Christian Warrior and claimed the lives he took were for his God now? Well the story sure has changed since his racist turner diaries inspiration days...could you source this?

"Only Muslims blow up buildings."
"Timothy McVeigh"
"Did Timothy McVeigh say he did it for God?"

I love telescopic goalposts.

I never claimed that only Muslims blow up buildings. I stated that the number of Islamic terrorist attacks is significantly larger than Christians. I do believe this is due to the War on Terror, but as I stated before, the majority of Muslims believe it is their right to take someone's life.

[Olerand]

No, he wasn't. But he did kill for Allah. Did McVeigh kill for Jesus?

Again, I'm in no way trying to absolve Christian crimes, of which there are many. But McVeigh isn't one of them.

And a couple of girls tried to kill another for Slenderman but nobody sees it as proof of Slendermanism being a problem.

From what I know of it, oh, it most certainly is. It's idiotic, stupid, and a terrible ploy (EDIT: Not ploy... But like a ploy... I don't know) on gullible young minds.

[PaNTuXIa]

No, he wasn't. But he did kill for Allah. Did McVeigh kill for Jesus?

Again, I'm in no way trying to absolve Christian crimes, of which there are many. But McVeigh isn't one of them.

And a couple of girls tried to kill another for Slenderman but nobody sees it as proof of Slendermanism being a problem.

Because that was one incident. There have been over 20 terror attacks worldwide caused by Muslims.

[Esternial]

"Only Muslims blow up buildings."
"Timothy McVeigh"
"Did Timothy McVeigh say he did it for God?"

I love telescopic goalposts.

I never claimed that only Muslims blow up buildings. I stated that the number of Islamic terrorist attacks is significantly larger than Christians. I do believe this is due to the War on Terror, but as I stated before, the majority of Muslims believe it is their right to take someone's life.

Frankly, a lot of people believe it is their right to take someone's life if theirs is threatened, or if their property is at risk. This is mostly evident in the U.S. for instance, where people have the means to do so.

In a way, Muslims have a very twisted version of that perspective. Their faith is threatened, and to many of these radical muslims their faith is part of their life.

[Gauthier]

And a couple of girls tried to kill another for Slenderman but nobody sees it as proof of Slendermanism being a problem.

Because that was one incident. There have been over 20 terror attacks worldwide caused by Muslims.

So Fallacy of Relative Privation to dismiss a matching example.

[Novus America]

Which at the end of the day doesn't matter. It's that Islam, in most cases, is preached and practiced along homophobic lines. This needs to be addressed since it's one of the root causes for his hatred.

I don't think that saying homosexuality and transgenderism is immoral or unnatural is homophobic.

Saying Homosexuals should be hurt is. And in America, that kind of rhetoric isn't very commonamong Muslims.. Not like it is in like...Pakistan or all of the Mid east/Arab world.

True. Which raises the immigration issue. We need stricter background checks and psychological tests. The guys father is an extremist and appears quite possibly unstable. Why was his father let in?

[Olerand]

I don't think that saying homosexuality and transgenderism is immoral or unnatural is homophobic.

Saying Homosexuals should be hurt is. And in America, that kind of rhetoric isn't very commonamong Muslims.. Not like it is in like...Pakistan or all of the Mid east/Arab world.

True. Which raises the immigration issue. We need stricter background checks and psychological tests. The guys father is an extremist and appears quite possibly unstable. Why was his father let in?

Is he an extremist? Or just unstable? He seems to hold the traditional views of Afghanistan. But he is definitely deranged.

I never claimed that only Muslims blow up buildings. I stated that the number of Islamic terrorist attacks is significantly larger than Christians. I do believe this is due to the War on Terror, but as I stated before, the majority of Muslims believe it is their right to take someone's life.

Frankly, a lot of people believe it is their right to take someone's life if theirs is threatened, or if their property is at risk. This is mostly evident in the U.S. for instance, where people have the means to do so.

In a way, Muslims have a very twisted version of that perspective. Their faith is threatened, and to many of these radical muslims their faith is part of their life.

Which is why victimizing rhetoric isn't good. At all.

[Expectareaction]

He named himself as a Christian Warrior and claimed the lives he took were for his God now? Well the story sure has changed since his racist turner diaries inspiration days...could you source this?

"Only Muslims blow up buildings."
"Timothy McVeigh"
"Did Timothy McVeigh say he did it for God?"

I love telescopic goalposts.

I don't see where anyone said "Only muslims blow up buildings" yet you put it in quotes as if someone did, to justify calling anyone who isn't a Muslim; Christian and religiously motivated.
Mateen CLAIMED to be religiously motivated.
Blowing up civilians automatically makes one a bad muslim, that's not the question.
Why didn't you just cite the Crusades as that's as relavent as citing McVeigh.
Pretending Radical Islam is not the current driving concern today, right now, at this moment--just so you can not be accused on singling anyone out is for all practical purposes absurd.
Modern Radical Islam is far more destructive than its contemporaries.

[Expectareaction]

Because that was one incident. There have been over 20 terror attacks worldwide caused by Muslims.

So Fallacy of Relative Privation to dismiss a matching example.

Argumentum ad Logicam

[Esternial]

Frankly, a lot of people believe it is their right to take someone's life if theirs is threatened, or if their property is at risk. This is mostly evident in the U.S. for instance, where people have the means to do so.

In a way, Muslims have a very twisted version of that perspective. Their faith is threatened, and to many of these radical muslims their faith is part of their life.

Which is why victimizing rhetoric isn't good. At all.

Sorry, haven't been paying much attention to this thread. Could you elaborate on that?

[Vassenor]

So Fallacy of Relative Privation to dismiss a matching example.

Argumentum ad Logicam

https://yourlogicalfallacyis.com/tu-quoque

[Gauthier]

"Only Muslims blow up buildings."
"Timothy McVeigh"
"Did Timothy McVeigh say he did it for God?"

I love telescopic goalposts.

I don't see where anyone said "Only muslims blow up buildings" yet you put it in quotes as if someone did, to justify calling anyone who isn't a Muslim; Christian and religiously motivated.
Mateen CLAIMED to be religiously motivated.
Blowing up civilians automatically makes one a bad muslim, that's not the question.
Why didn't you just cite the Crusades as that's as relavent as citing McVeigh.
Pretending Radical Islam is not the current driving concern today, right now, at this moment--just so you can not be accused on singling anyone out is for all practical purposes absurd.
Modern Radical Islam is far more destructive than its contemporaries.

Which is nice if you conveniently ignore eyewitness testimony of Mateen being anything but a strictly devout Muslim and go solely by the excuse-grabbing last moments of his fucking life to go "AHA! ALL MUSLIMS ARE EXACTLY LIKE THAT!"

[Novus America]

True. Which raises the immigration issue. We need stricter background checks and psychological tests. The guys father is an extremist and appears quite possibly unstable. Why was his father let in?

Is he an extremist? Or just unstable? He seems to hold the traditional views of Afghanistan. But he is definitely deranged.

Frankly, a lot of people believe it is their right to take someone's life if theirs is threatened, or if their property is at risk. This is mostly evident in the U.S. for instance, where people have the means to do so.

In a way, Muslims have a very twisted version of that perspective. Their faith is threatened, and to many of these radical muslims their faith is part of their life.

Which is why victimizing rhetoric isn't good. At all.

Extremism and unstable are not mutually exclusive. He should not have been let in on both grounds. Even if it some of his views were standard for Afganistan it is not appropriate for here.

This will ruffle a few feathers but we need to treat Wahhabism and Salafism somewhat like we treated Communism.

[Olerand]

Which is why victimizing rhetoric isn't good. At all.

Sorry, haven't been paying much attention to this thread. Could you elaborate on that?

An argument that I had earlier in which I argued that Muslims are not victims of, or in, the West, and that that victimizing rhetoric only creates a false and dangerous sense of us vs. them amongst Muslims here and worldwide.

[PaNTuXIa]

I don't see where anyone said "Only muslims blow up buildings" yet you put it in quotes as if someone did, to justify calling anyone who isn't a Muslim; Christian and religiously motivated.
Mateen CLAIMED to be religiously motivated.
Blowing up civilians automatically makes one a bad muslim, that's not the question.
Why didn't you just cite the Crusades as that's as relavent as citing McVeigh.
Pretending Radical Islam is not the current driving concern today, right now, at this moment--just so you can not be accused on singling anyone out is for all practical purposes absurd.
Modern Radical Islam is far more destructive than its contemporaries.

Which is nice if you conveniently ignore eyewitness testimony of Mateen being anything but a strictly devout Muslim and go solely by the excuse-grabbing last moments of his fucking life to go "AHA! ALL MUSLIMS ARE EXACTLY LIKE THAT!"

Can you point us to where any of us stated that in this thread? I am simply stating that the majority of Muslims do feel that they have the right to take someone's life for their god. Whether or not they take this into their own hands is a entirely different matter.

[Liriena]

I still feel a lot of things. Anger, that this sort of thing would be allowed to happen. Disgust, as people use it to further their own agendas. Disappointed, that many people and publications are acting like this wasn't a homophobic attack. Mostly sadness though.

I'm with the blue haired girl here. ^

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I don't think that saying homosexuality and transgenderism is immoral or unnatural is homophobic.

Saying Homosexuals should be hurt is. And in America, that kind of rhetoric isn't very commonamong Muslims.. Not like it is in like...Pakistan or all of the Mid east/Arab world.

True. Which raises the immigration issue. We need stricter background checks and psychological tests. The guys father is an extremist and appears quite possibly unstable. Why was his father let in?

Aren't they settled immigrants for quite some time already?

[Olerand]

Is he an extremist? Or just unstable? He seems to hold the traditional views of Afghanistan. But he is definitely deranged.


Which is why victimizing rhetoric isn't good. At all.

Extremism and unstable are not mutually exclusive. He should not have been let in on both grounds. Even if it some of his views were standard for Afganistan it is not appropriate for here.

This will ruffle a few feathers but we need to treat Wahhabism and Salafism somewhat like we treated Communism.

But he doesn't seem to be an extremist. His views are not befitting the US, of course, but he is there, so that's done. But his views aren't "extremist". Simply retrograde. He is also clearly delusional.

100% correct.

[PaNTuXIa]

This will ruffle a few feathers but we need to treat Wahhabism and Salafism somewhat like we treated Communism.

Ah yes, scare the citizens in order to keep the military-industrial complex running. Don't forget selling weapons to enemies of the US, creating false flag attacks, and helping to aid dictators!

[Novus America]

True. Which raises the immigration issue. We need stricter background checks and psychological tests. The guys father is an extremist and appears quite possibly unstable. Why was his father let in?

Aren't they settled immigrants for quite some time already?

Yes. But the father is still crazy. When we let them in we cleary made a mistake.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Is he an extremist? Or just unstable? He seems to hold the traditional views of Afghanistan. But he is definitely deranged.


Which is why victimizing rhetoric isn't good. At all.

Extremism and unstable are not mutually exclusive. He should not have been let in on both grounds. Even if it some of his views were standard for Afganistan it is not appropriate for here.

This will ruffle a few feathers but we need to treat Wahhabism and Salafism somewhat like we treated Communism.

I don't disagree with you on that, but what do you think that will result into, given we're in the age of information?

Being honest, you're not going to stop people in the U.S. from getting reeled into bullshit if they look hard enough for it online.