Orlando Nightclub Shooting

[Patridam]

If an SO had committed a minor crime? Or, hell, even a single murder depending on the circumstances.... well I would understand, if not condone covering for them. But premeditated murder of potentially hundreds of innocent people?

You underestimate the loyalty expected from a significant other across cultures.

Well isn't American culture just so darn terrible that it doesn't expect you to sit idly by and let your abusive husband commit mass murder.

Any culture that expects that, condones it, or heck, doesn't actively discourage it - that culture needs to shape up.

[The League of The Purplites]

He should've been put on a blacklist to be completely honest with you. To buy the AR-18 you have to get a license, and go through background checks that are very extensive. Had he been put on a blacklist due to the suspicions that were against him, then he wouldn't have been able to buy the weapon.

I don't even know why things like AR-18s can be purchased by the general public. Literally only thing I can understand is ranchers.

That's the point, some guns on the market shouldn't even be sold because they are just too powerful for consumer use.

[The League of The Purplites]

You underestimate the loyalty expected from a significant other across cultures.

Well isn't American culture just so darn terrible that it doesn't expect you to sit idly by and let your abusive husband commit mass murder.

Any culture that expects that, condones it, or heck, doesn't actively discourage it - that culture needs to shape up.

American culture doesn't condone that, that was one (granted not psychologically sound) person who thought that was okay. It's not like we teach that all wives should be totally loyal to their husbands, you can look to Sharia Law for that.

[Washington Resistance Army]

I don't even know why things like AR-18s can be purchased by the general public. Literally only thing I can understand is ranchers.

That's the point, some guns on the market shouldn't even be sold because they are just too powerful for consumer use.

Tell that to civilian owned rocket launchers

[The League of The Purplites]

That's the point, some guns on the market shouldn't even be sold because they are just too powerful for consumer use.

Tell that to civilian owned rocket launchers

What difference would that make, exactly? That only proves my point smh

[Soldati Senza Confini]

SOs don't necessarily go by the law, they go by cultural expectations.

I would think a lot of cultures would be against turning your SO in to the police, even if it means they going to jail as well.

Loyalty towards your significant other is literally the building block of a family. I am not sure most people would get into what the other person would consider betrayal.

I agree with you're assessment, although I think she was an ex-SO. Not all of them would be so loyal, ya know?

Regardless, that won't be a reason sufficient defence if she's charged.

If she was an ex, then she had no reason to cover up for him. There's no expectations for your ex to bail you out, so it was fair game.

Legally there's no defense. She covered up for him, she has to go to jail for it. You pay a high price for loyalty, whether it's towards a terrorist who is your SO, or towards your country. Noone ever said loyalty had to be easy.

[Patridam]

I don't even know why things like AR-18s can be purchased by the general public. Literally only thing I can understand is ranchers.

That's the point, some guns on the market shouldn't even be sold because they are just too powerful for consumer use.

What.... What does the AR-18 have anything to do with anything in this situation? It's damn near impossible to get an AR-18 in the USA because it is fully automatic - no new ones have been sold for civilian use since 1986 and its upwards of $30,000 to get a fully automatic weapon these days. The shooter didn't use an AR-18, nor an AR-15, he used a Sig Sauer MCX.

[The League of The Purplites]

I agree with you're assessment, although I think she was an ex-SO. Not all of them would be so loyal, ya know?

Regardless, that won't be a reason sufficient defence if she's charged.

If she was an ex, then she had no reason to cover up for him. There's no expectations for your ex to bail you out, so it was fair game.

Legally there's no defense. She covered up for him, she has to go to jail for it. You pay a high price for loyalty, whether it's towards a terrorist who is your SO, or towards your country. Noone ever said loyalty had to be easy.

Are you guys saying she should be let free for helping to cover up a mass shooting?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

You underestimate the loyalty expected from a significant other across cultures.

Well isn't American culture just so darn terrible that it doesn't expect you to sit idly by and let your abusive husband commit mass murder.

Any culture that expects that, condones it, or heck, doesn't actively discourage it - that culture needs to shape up.

American culture condones basically going to bat for a Stanford swimmer super star all-American who raped another person to the point of minimizing the experiences of the victim.

From where I am standing, what she did was no different.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

If she was an ex, then she had no reason to cover up for him. There's no expectations for your ex to bail you out, so it was fair game.

Legally there's no defense. She covered up for him, she has to go to jail for it. You pay a high price for loyalty, whether it's towards a terrorist who is your SO, or towards your country. Noone ever said loyalty had to be easy.

Are you guys saying she should be let free for helping to cover up a mass shooting?

I have never said she should be let free for helping to cover up a mass shooting, did I?

I am saying that, while I understand where she comes from, she has to deal with the consequences of her actions.

While I understand loyalty was a motive in her covering it up for so long, and the flak against her is somewhat unnecessary, doesn't mean the law is going to be lenient.

[The League of The Purplites]

That's the point, some guns on the market shouldn't even be sold because they are just too powerful for consumer use.

What.... What does the AR-18 have anything to do with anything in this situation? It's damn near impossible to get an AR-18 in the USA because it is fully automatic - no new ones have been sold for civilian use since 1986 and its upwards of $30,000 to get a fully automatic weapon these days. The shooter didn't use an AR-18, nor an AR-15, he used a Sig Sauer MCX.

It doesn't matter what gun he used, if he managed to kill 49 people with it, I don't think that it should be put on the market. Who honestly cares what kind of gun it was, it doesn't make a difference.

[Patridam]

American culture doesn't condone that, that was one (granted not psychologically sound) person who thought that was okay. It's not like we teach that all wives should be totally loyal to their husbands, you can look to Sharia Law for that.

I ... I think you misunderstood my post there. I was sarcastically calling US culture terrible because, unlike Muslim culture, it doesn't encourage wifely loyalty in the context of covering for mass murder. I was saying Islamic culture has a hell of a lot to learn, quick.

[The League of The Purplites]

Well isn't American culture just so darn terrible that it doesn't expect you to sit idly by and let your abusive husband commit mass murder.

Any culture that expects that, condones it, or heck, doesn't actively discourage it - that culture needs to shape up.

American culture condones basically going to bat for a Stanford swimmer super star all-American who raped another person to the point of minimizing the experiences of the victim.

From where I am standing, what she did was no different.

Raped one girl on one hand...helped to kill 50 people on another hand...no different.

[The League of The Purplites]

Are you guys saying she should be let free for helping to cover up a mass shooting?

I have never said she should be let free for helping to cover up a mass shooting, did I?

I was talking in general, but I needed to quote you so it'd seem more relevant

[Vassenor]

The MCX certainly strikes me as something that should really only be marketed to LE/MIL customers. But that's just my opinion.

[The League of The Purplites]

American culture doesn't condone that, that was one (granted not psychologically sound) person who thought that was okay. It's not like we teach that all wives should be totally loyal to their husbands, you can look to Sharia Law for that.

I ... I think you misunderstood my post there. I was sarcastically calling US culture terrible because, unlike Muslim culture, it doesn't encourage wifely loyalty in the context of covering for mass murder. I was saying Islamic culture has a hell of a lot to learn, quick.

I might have, sorry

[Soldati Senza Confini]

American culture condones basically going to bat for a Stanford swimmer super star all-American who raped another person to the point of minimizing the experiences of the victim.

From where I am standing, what she did was no different.

Raped one girl on one hand...helped to kill 50 people on another hand...no different.

Can you point out to me where the difference is, besides the people they had loyalty to, lies?

[Gauthier]

And we're back to The Gun Show...

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I have never said she should be let free for helping to cover up a mass shooting, did I?

I was talking in general, but I needed to quote you so it'd seem more relevant

In general, no, she shouldn't be let free for helping cover up a mass shooting.

However, what she did was based on loyalty. I don't see it as a bad thing acting out of loyalty, contrary to the people calling for her blood in this thread. So I understand where she was coming from, even if I do not condone it.

What I do see is that she needs to go to prison for it and pay the consequences of her actions.

In other words, just because you do something understandable, and reasonable under the circumstances, doesn't mean you don't get to suffer any consequences.

[Patridam]

American culture condones basically going to bat for a Stanford swimmer super star all-American who raped another person to the point of minimizing the experiences of the victim.

Who.. who are you talking about? The swimmer's father? His lawyer? Who "went to bat for him"? And our culture "condones" it? Have you seen the amount of outcry from Americans after that case?

And I don't know where the hell you're standing, but trying to decrease somebody's prison sentence after the fact of an admittedly heinous crime is nowhere near on the level of helping a man murder massive amounts of people.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

American culture condones basically going to bat for a Stanford swimmer super star all-American who raped another person to the point of minimizing the experiences of the victim.

Who.. who are you talking about? The swimmer's father? His lawyer? Who "went to bat for him"? And our culture "condones" it? Have you seen the amount of outcry from Americans after that case?

And I don't know where the hell you're standing, but trying to decrease somebody's prison sentence after the fact of an admittedly heinous crime is nowhere near on the level of helping a man murder massive amounts of people.

The amount of outcry from Americans means nothing if the culture condones protecting those who you consider family in the first place.

If you want higher reporting from families about domestic violence and plots to kill people, then you have to raise people to understand betrayal is understandable in certain cases, simple as.

The law certainly isn't going to take care of the culture, like you seem to believe by throwing the law at me.

[Patridam]

What.... What does the AR-18 have anything to do with anything in this situation? It's damn near impossible to get an AR-18 in the USA because it is fully automatic - no new ones have been sold for civilian use since 1986 and its upwards of $30,000 to get a fully automatic weapon these days. The shooter didn't use an AR-18, nor an AR-15, he used a Sig Sauer MCX.

It doesn't matter what gun he used, if he managed to kill 49 people with it, I don't think that it should be put on the market. Who honestly cares what kind of gun it was, it doesn't make a difference.

So, you're going to have an arbitrary ban on any weapon now used in a shooting of 49 people or more? Where much more deadly weapons than the MCX are going to be legal until someone decides to shoot up a public place with them? Oh, sorry, no, only 48 people died here, that gun stays legal.

You have to actually have a plan before you suggest that stuff man. There is no quantifiable way of measuring how many people the gun might be able to kill - its totally dependent on the skill of the shooter and the softnesss of the target in question. If you go in a place with lax security and an unarmed population, and you're quick with a speedloader, you could probably kill 50 with a civil war era 6 shot revolver. But if you go into a heavily armed place even an actual assault rifle might get you nowhere.

[Freefall11111]

And we're back to The Gun Show...

It'll never end, will it?

[Scarlet Tides]

Spans so many issues.

The availability of killing machines. Semi-autos and the like. And to unstable maniacs.
Societal, religious and personal homophobia.
Domestic violence, its victims and what we expect from them when we can't even protect them from their abusers very well.
The sudden giving a damn about a group of citizens whom have been killed, discriminated against and generally shunned to justify a "greater threat" to bigots, Islamophobia.

Just not impressed with humanity lately.

[Ochea]

I think the terrorists should be executed, but in a special way. If they are just killed after their crimes, they become martyrs. That cannot be allowed to happen. There cannot be any martyrs, that will just encourage other terrorist attacks. The terrorist must be re-educated. They must see the error of their ways, and must feel what they have done is evil. They must be publically executed, but only after they confess and apologize. They must give an apology to the nation, an apology where they truly believe that what they have done is wrong. Only when terrorists see the error of their ways, and wish to be executed for the terrible things they did, then the moral and strength of the terrorists will be broken.