Orlando Nightclub Shooting

[Oneracon]

Well there was an off duty police officer, who was armed, who engaged the shooter almost as soon as the shooting began. From my understanding on duty police arrived rather rapidly and also engaged him, before he was cornered in the bathroom with several hostages. I wouldn't be surprised if people confused what was going on and thought that the responding police or off duty officer were taking part in the shooting instead of trying to stop it.

EDIT: The first officer to engage was not off duty, he was uniformed.

Was this one of our "good guys with a gun" we keep hearing about?

Depends on your interpretation of GGWAG. If they're uniformed cops that are carrying their firearms as part of their job, not just random civilians walking around ready to shoot people, I count that as law enforcement doing their job more than the NRA's ideal GGWAG.

[Spirit of Hope]

Well there was an off duty police officer, who was armed, who engaged the shooter almost as soon as the shooting began. From my understanding on duty police arrived rather rapidly and also engaged him, before he was cornered in the bathroom with several hostages. I wouldn't be surprised if people confused what was going on and thought that the responding police or off duty officer were taking part in the shooting instead of trying to stop it.

EDIT: The first officer to engage was not off duty, he was uniformed.

Was this one of our "good guys with a gun" we keep hearing about?

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here. The only people, as far as I can tell, who were armed and responded were the police. There was one uniformed police officer who engaged the shooter before he entered the club, but was unable to stop the shooter from entering the club. He received backup from other uniformed officers and entered the club, eventually cornering the shooter in a bathroom. They didn't enter for fear of the shooter hurting hostages which is when a three hour stand off began, SWAT and a negotiator arrived. Eventually the shooter began to attack the hostages at which point SWAT used an armored vehicle and flash bang grenades to breach the room, and killed the shooter.

As far as I can tell there was no attempt by an armed civilian to intervene.

As for the reports about multiple gunmen, my guess would be it came from injured or confused people mistaking police for other participants. After all police were almost literally right behind the shooter from the beginning of the incident.

[The Black Forrest]

Family of the inventor of the AR15 speak out.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/family ... &ocid=iehp

Inventor never intended it to be a civilian weapon and never owned one.

[Spirit of Hope]

Family of the inventor of the AR15 speak out.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/family ... &ocid=iehp

Inventor never intended it to be a civilian weapon and never owned one.

Considering the weapon he designed was fully automatic, it is under some rather heavy regulations. It also bears little resemblance to the semi automatic weapons largely available for civilians to own. Which are after all designed to look like, but not function like, the AR-15 he deigned.

[Gauthier]

Family of the inventor of the AR15 speak out.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/family ... &ocid=iehp

Inventor never intended it to be a civilian weapon and never owned one.

The inventor of the AR-15 is obviously an SJW gungrabber. *nod*

[Grinning Dragon]

Family of the inventor of the AR15 speak out.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/family ... &ocid=iehp

Inventor never intended it to be a civilian weapon and never owned one.

With the inventor being dead since 1997, we are suppose to take the relatives assumptions as gospel?

Without word straight from the horses mouth, I'll just take their assumptions with a grain of salt.

[Gauthier]

Family of the inventor of the AR15 speak out.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/family ... &ocid=iehp

Inventor never intended it to be a civilian weapon and never owned one.

With the inventor being dead since 1997, we are suppose to take the relatives assumptions as gospel?

Without word straight from the horses mouth, I'll just take their assumptions with a grain of salt.

So it's safe to ignore Michael Reagan's words and assume Ronald would have gladly voted for Donald Trump?

[Washington Resistance Army]

Family of the inventor of the AR15 speak out.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/family ... &ocid=iehp

Inventor never intended it to be a civilian weapon and never owned one.

The weapon he designed isn't the weapon civilians own, I'm also not going to give it much attention given he didn't say it.

Edit: The gun was actually on the civilian market for decades before he died, I feel like he would have said something if he really thought that.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Family of the inventor of the AR15 speak out.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/family ... &ocid=iehp

Inventor never intended it to be a civilian weapon and never owned one.

Too bad Colt (who licensed the design from Eugene Stoner) started selling them to civilians in the 60's.

[Patridam]

Family of the inventor of the AR15 speak out.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/family ... &ocid=iehp

Inventor never intended it to be a civilian weapon and never owned one.

The gun used in this attack wasn't an AR-15. It was a SIG Sauer MCX.

[Vassenor]

Family of the inventor of the AR15 speak out.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/family ... &ocid=iehp

Inventor never intended it to be a civilian weapon and never owned one.

The gun used in this attack wasn't an AR-15. It was a SIG Sauer MCX.

SIG themselves describe the MCX as an AR-15 based rifle, to the point of selling a kit to convert standard AR-15 lower receivers to MCX spec.

[Camicon]

Family of the inventor of the AR15 speak out.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/family ... &ocid=iehp

Inventor never intended it to be a civilian weapon and never owned one.

The gun used in this attack wasn't an AR-15. It was a SIG Sauer MCX.

Because the differences between an AR-15, and an AR-15 variant made by a different company, are just so substantive and relevant.

[Washington Resistance Army]

The gun used in this attack wasn't an AR-15. It was a SIG Sauer MCX.

Because the differences between an AR-15, and an AR-15 variant made by a different company, are just so substantive and relevant.

They kinda are yeah, they aren't even chambered in the same round.

[Camicon]

Because the differences between an AR-15, and an AR-15 variant made by a different company, are just so substantive and relevant.

They kinda are yeah, they aren't even chambered in the same round.

And does that significantly change how lethal this shooter was? Would he have killed less people with an AR-15 than he did with a SIG MCX? If so then, please, demonstrate as much and we can redirect the conversation.

[Gauthier]

John McCain: Obama is ‘directly responsible’ for Orlando attack

Looks like McCain had a chug of Trump-Aid.

[Washington Resistance Army]

They kinda are yeah, they aren't even chambered in the same round.

And does that significantly change how lethal this shooter was? Would he have killed less people with an AR-15 than he did with a SIG MCX? If so then, please, demonstrate as much and we can redirect the conversation.

It doesn't really matter what he was using, he was in the club for three fucking hours or some nonsense.

But yes I would say .300 BLK is a more effective round at killing than .223 is.

[Washington Resistance Army]

John McCain: Obama is ‘directly responsible’ for Orlando attack

Looks like McCain had a chug of Trump-Aid.

Wasn't McCain trying to distance himself from that kinda nonsense or am I thinking of somebody else?

[Camicon]

John McCain: Obama is ‘directly responsible’ for Orlando attack

Looks like McCain had a chug of Trump-Aid.

Does he hand that out at his rallies? Seems that everybody has been drinking it, lately.

[Herrebrugh]

John McCain: Obama is ‘directly responsible’ for Orlando attack

Looks like McCain had a chug of Trump-Aid.

Huh. I didn't know he was that big of an idiot.

[Camicon]

And does that significantly change how lethal this shooter was? Would he have killed less people with an AR-15 than he did with a SIG MCX? If so then, please, demonstrate as much and we can redirect the conversation.

It doesn't really matter what he was using, he was in the club for three fucking hours or some nonsense.

But yes I would say .300 BLK is a more effective round at killing than .223 is.

"I would say" doesn't mean all that much. Unless you can provide some evidence that would suggest this shooter would have been less lethal if he was using a .223 instead of a .300 BLK, I seen no substantive reason to continue with the "HE WASN'T USING AN AR-15, HE WAS USING A SIG MCX!" line.

[Patridam]

The gun used in this attack wasn't an AR-15. It was a SIG Sauer MCX.

Because the differences between an AR-15, and an AR-15 variant made by a different company, are just so substantive and relevant.

The Sauer MCX is not an "AR-15 variant". It has no parts that are shared or that interface with an AR-15 in any way. It is totally different internally, because it uses the more robust but old fashioned mechanical reloading system as oppsed to gas operated direct impingement like an AR-15 - its internal design means it can never be anything but a semiautomatic, so it has no assault rifle equivalent with selective fire. It was designed to fire a different ammunition than the AR-15, though it is modular and different caliber barrels can be swapped and used with it. And it was only introduced in 2015, 18 years after the inventor of the AR 15 died.

There are pretty damn substantive differences. It certainly makes anything the family of the inventor of the AR 15 claimed he said rather irrelevant. And it makes me really REALLY not want to trust someone like you with making gun laws because you don't know, acknowledge, or care about these differences.

[Camicon]

Because the differences between an AR-15, and an AR-15 variant made by a different company, are just so substantive and relevant.

The Sauer MCX is not an "AR-15 variant". It has no parts that are shared or that interface with an AR-15 in any way. It is totally different internally, because it uses the more robust but old fashioned mechanical reloading system as oppsed to gas operated direct impingement like an AR-15 - its internal design means it can never be anything but a semiautomatic, so it has no assault rifle equivalent with selective fire. It was designed to fire a different ammunition than the AR-15, though it is modular and different caliber barrels can be swapped and used with it. And it was only introduced in 2015, 18 years after the inventor of the AR 15 died.

There are pretty damn substantive differences. It certainly makes anything the family of the inventor of the AR 15 claimed he said rather irrelevant.

As I said, unless you can provide some evidence that this shooter would have been less lethal if using an AR-15 instead of a SIG MCX, I seen no substantive reason to continue with the "HE WASN'T USING AN AR-15, HE WAS USING A SIG MCX!" line.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

John McCain: Obama is ‘directly responsible’ for Orlando attack

Looks like McCain had a chug of Trump-Aid.

What.

Why?

[Spirit of Hope]

John McCain: Obama is ‘directly responsible’ for Orlando attack

Looks like McCain had a chug of Trump-Aid.

Actually reading the article, he does have some valid points. US withdrawal from Iraq certainly destabilized it, leading in part to the rise of ISIS. Of course Bushes invasion in the first place destabilized Iraq and lead to growing power of militants in the area.

Also different from Trumps remarks, which imply Obama is supporting ISIS and other terrorists.

[Washington Resistance Army]

It doesn't really matter what he was using, he was in the club for three fucking hours or some nonsense.

But yes I would say .300 BLK is a more effective round at killing than .223 is.

"I would say" doesn't mean all that much. Unless you can provide some evidence that would suggest this shooter would have been less lethal if he was using a .223 instead of a .300 BLK, I seen no substantive reason to continue with the "HE WASN'T USING AN AR-15, HE WAS USING A SIG MCX!" line.

.300 BLK hits with more force, and if I'm not mistaken some loads move faster than .223 as well. That's pretty much all you need to make a bullet more deadly is weight and speed.

John McCain: Obama is ‘directly responsible’ for Orlando attack

Looks like McCain had a chug of Trump-Aid.

What.

Why?

Cuz John McCain, you'll have to forgive him he's getting old.