Orlando Nightclub Shooting

[Socialist Nordia]

Timothy McVeigh was one, but now there are fertiliser restrictions, making this harder. I'm saying you can't just kill 100 that easily anymore. If it was even remotely easy, it would happen all the time, like mass shootings do.

Tannerite. Fun stuff.

As for "fertilizer" restrictions, you should look up what "stump remover" is made from. I'll give you a hint.... the bad stuff in higher concentration in a easier to separate medium.

If it's so damn easy as you claim, why isn't it being done? Nothing similar happened since the 90s. Guns are clearly the preferred option for terrorists.

[Expectareaction]

But it's not JUST about self/home defense. Semi auto rifles are also used for target shooting, hunting, and collecting.

People can hunt without semi autos, it's been done. Targets can afford to wait before being hit. There could be exceptions for both of these if needed for sporting I guess. I'm fine with collecting, but in that case, mere collectables shouldn't need ammo if they are just to collect and not for practical use. I'm not totally unreasonable.

Really it doest matter.
Your idea, will never happen here.
I don't own a firearm and I personally would actively vote against any politician supporting anything remotely like what you suggest. Given the number of gun owners in this country, and their voting family members... its a non-issue.

[Socialist Nordia]

People can hunt without semi autos, it's been done. Targets can afford to wait before being hit. There could be exceptions for both of these if needed for sporting I guess. I'm fine with collecting, but in that case, mere collectables shouldn't need ammo if they are just to collect and not for practical use. I'm not totally unreasonable.

Really it doest matter.
Your idea, will never happen here.
I don't own a firearm and I personally would actively vote against any politician supporting anything remotely like what you suggest. Given the number of gun owners in this country, and their voting family members... its a non-issue.

I honestly don't expect any politician to propose this. None will. I'll be satisfied with more moderate regulations though. Something has to be done on this.

[Expectareaction]

Tannerite. Fun stuff.

As for "fertilizer" restrictions, you should look up what "stump remover" is made from. I'll give you a hint.... the bad stuff in higher concentration in a easier to separate medium.

If it's so damn easy as you claim, why isn't it being done? Nothing similar happened since the 90s. Guns are clearly the preferred option for terrorists.

Its absurdly easy to make a bomb, we were making fertilizer pipe bombs when I was 12. We were just using plastic film cases instead of pipe--thus less explosive and firework size.

Seriously, 8th grade science class is all the education one needs. If you can make a box of brownies you can make an explosive device.

[Patridam]

Semi autos should all be banned then. A normal handgun is enough to protect from a burglary or whatever else threatens your home.

Semiautomatic handguns are "normal handguns", there are more semiautomatic handguns in the USA than there are revolvers/other handguns.

It's not the semiautomatic part that makes them popular in crime, its the convenience and concealability - it just happens that the semi auto ones are used in more crimes because there are more of them.

Exactly what ARE you trying to mean when you say "normal handguns"?

[Socialist Nordia]

Other than the guns, what do others here think would stop things like this. I would oppose any Muslim ban like trump wants. What would fight the radicalisation process though?

[Gun Manufacturers]

Equipment, as you put it, isn't to blame here nor is it in any way, shape, or form, at fault here. Equipment had nothing to do with this horrible incident, and the entirety of this horrible act lies solely with the person responsible for carrying it out.

So, instead of blaming and condemning hundreds of millions of innocent people, making criminals out of them for no reason at all and further restricting one of their protected rights how about we realize that actual human beings, albit horrible ones at that, are to blame here.

I'm sick of this. OF COURSE I KNOW THIS WAS THE SHOOTER'S FAULT, I'M NOT A HORRIBLE PERSON. My point is that with no gun, the shooter wouldn't have killed nearly as many and lives would be saved. If you people think the better solution would be to restrict people from certain religions rather than objects, then I disagree. We must combat radicalism but it will still be there for a long time. We can't let the radicals get their hands on this firepower. Also, to all those suggesting that people need guns to defend themselves from these things, that is essentially blaming the victims in the nightclub for not having weapons to defend themselves. No one should have to carry a gun around to feel safe. I'd rather have it so that the shooter never had a gun in the first place, because without a gun it would be far less than 49.

Unless he firebombed the place. Nightclub fires can be DEVASTATING. In The Station nightclub fire (West Warwick, Rhode Island), 100 people died and 230 people were injured when, during a Great White concert, outdoor pyrotechnics (gerbs, which produce showers of sparks for 15-60 seconds) were used indoors and ignited the soundproof foam insulation around the stage. Despite there being 4 exits out of the club, the majority of the people that died did so at or near the main entrance when they got logjammed in the mad dash to get away.

[Novus America]

Actual assault rifles are banned heavily regulated.

And way more people are killed with semi auto handguns than rifles. This guy could have killed just as many people with a hand gun (he used one as well).

Fixed. Civilians are allowed to buy/own full auto/select fire weapons made and registered with ATF before May 19, 1986.

Yeah, techincally. But you have to jump through so many hoops, and usually pay around 30k+.

[Paddy O Fernature]

Tannerite. Fun stuff.

As for "fertilizer" restrictions, you should look up what "stump remover" is made from. I'll give you a hint.... the bad stuff in higher concentration in a easier to separate medium.

If it's so damn easy as you claim, why isn't it being done? Nothing similar happened since the 90s. Guns are clearly the preferred option for terrorists.

You want the honest truth?

WE... HAVE....BEEN... LUCKY.

It's only a matter of time.

But it's not JUST about self/home defense. Semi auto rifles are also used for target shooting, hunting, and collecting.

People can hunt without semi autos, it's been done. Targets can afford to wait before being hit. There could be exceptions for both of these if needed for sporting I guess. I'm fine with collecting, but in that case, mere collectables shouldn't need ammo if they are just to collect and not for practical use. I'm not totally unreasonable.

Yes actually, your ideas really are.

[Expectareaction]

Really it doest matter.
Your idea, will never happen here.
I don't own a firearm and I personally would actively vote against any politician supporting anything remotely like what you suggest. Given the number of gun owners in this country, and their voting family members... its a non-issue.

I honestly don't expect any politician to propose this. None will. I'll be satisfied with more moderate regulations though. Something has to be done on this.

https://www.engadget.com/2015/03/19/49- ... methrower/
Much bigger ones are just as legal, and you don't even need to register them.

[Socialist Nordia]

If it's so damn easy as you claim, why isn't it being done? Nothing similar happened since the 90s. Guns are clearly the preferred option for terrorists.

Its absurdly easy to make a bomb, we were making fertilizer pipe bombs when I was 12. We were just using plastic film cases instead of pipe--thus less explosive and firework size.

Seriously, 8th grade science class is all the education one needs. If you can make a box of brownies you can make an explosive device.

What kind of childhood did you have? You were making bombs as a12 year old? And still, why are guns still preferred by terrorists here in the us if bombs are so much easier and more deadly?

[Grinning Dragon]

Semiautomatic handguns are "normal handguns", there are more semiautomatic handguns in the USA than there are revolvers/other handguns.

It's not the semiautomatic part that makes them popular in crime, its the convenience and concealability - it just happens that the semi auto ones are used in more crimes because there are more of them.

Exactly what ARE you trying to mean when you say "normal handguns"?

Probably not this then?

[Occupied Deutschland]

Other than the guns, what do others here think would stop things like this. I would oppose any Muslim ban like trump wants. What would fight the radicalisation process though?

Imprison all the Muslims on the no-fly list (and keep 24/7 surveillance on and curtail all constitutional rights of anyone else on the list), ban internet sites about ISIS, jihad or fundamentalist Islam, and pass the 'USA PATRIOT II: Patriot Harder' act.

[Expectareaction]

Other than the guns, what do others here think would stop things like this. I would oppose any Muslim ban like trump wants. What would fight the radicalisation process though?

Less glorification of violence in the mass media, gross expansion of mental health services, gross expansion in the private sector of interfaith cooperation, teaching ideas of patriotism through civic oriented community programs like soup kitchens organized from high schools, middle schools helping out at hospitals, cleaning parks, ...etc etc

If you want people to be more touchy feely then our cultural paradigms must become touchy feely.

[Patridam]

Other than the guns, what do others here think would stop things like this. I would oppose any Muslim ban like trump wants. What would fight the radicalisation process though?

A totally overhauled mental health system to recognize people like this earlier, a wholesale annihilation the Daesh to stop their propoganda/recruiting, and greater integration and assimilation of muslim populations in developed countries to help them reject the regressive parts of their faith, as well as to help make radicalization processes as well as general criminal acts and mental instability among muslims to be more visible to authorities (for one, because more integrated muslims will be more likely to report these things when they see them in friends and family, rather than keeping to themselves like the Italians did with the mafia).

[Spirit of Hope]

Its absurdly easy to make a bomb, we were making fertilizer pipe bombs when I was 12. We were just using plastic film cases instead of pipe--thus less explosive and firework size.

Seriously, 8th grade science class is all the education one needs. If you can make a box of brownies you can make an explosive device.

What kind of childhood did you have? You were making bombs as a12 year old? And still, why are guns still preferred by terrorists here in the us if bombs are so much easier and more deadly?

They have been used, the Boston bombing produced twice as many casualties as the Orlando shooting. Probably guns are used more commonly because they don't have the same result in the shooters eyes. A suicide bombing doesn't let you see your handwork, and the Boston bombing showed you would get hunted down like a rabid wolf if you left your explosives.

[Patridam]

Exactly what ARE you trying to mean when you say "normal handguns"?

Probably not this then?

I probably confused you by quoting myself. Sorry. I was just displeased Nordia was totally ignoring my post so I thought I'd renew the discussion on this new page.

[Christiaanistan]

Other than the guns, what do others here think would stop things like this. I would oppose any Muslim ban like trump wants. What would fight the radicalisation process though?

Well, that is one of the things that I am worried about as far as political fallout. I don't want this to turn into a pretext for lashing out against families that haven't really done anything wrong, except that I disagree with their religion a lot. Like really a lot. That is really what made it so horrifying to me. I actually am a gay guy, and I don't want gay people to end up at the center of yet another international piss-fight, which would just result in more gay people being targeted and families that don't even really fully understand what is going on losing a lot of their rights for no real reason. The political fallout from this could be very bad.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

I'm sick of this. OF COURSE I KNOW THIS WAS THE SHOOTER'S FAULT, I'M NOT A HORRIBLE PERSON. My point is that with no gun, the shooter wouldn't have killed nearly as many and lives would be saved. If you people think the better solution would be to restrict people from certain religions rather than objects, then I disagree. We must combat radicalism but it will still be there for a long time. We can't let the radicals get their hands on this firepower. Also, to all those suggesting that people need guns to defend themselves from these things, that is essentially blaming the victims in the nightclub for not having weapons to defend themselves. No one should have to carry a gun around to feel safe. I'd rather have it so that the shooter never had a gun in the first place, because without a gun it would be far less than 49.

Unless he firebombed the place. Nightclub fires can be DEVASTATING. In The Station nightclub fire (West Warwick, Rhode Island), 100 people died and 230 people were injured when, during a Great White concert, outdoor pyrotechnics (gerbs, which produce showers of sparks for 15-60 seconds) were used indoors and ignited the soundproof foam insulation around the stage. Despite there being 4 exits out of the club, the majority of the people that died did so at or near the main entrance when they got logjammed in the mad dash to get away.

Again, nightclub firebombings COULD kill as many as or more people, but would they? The implication seems to be that if firearms were unavailable, people would turn towards explosives, often easily constructed with some basic household items. Can you show an increase of such bombings in nations that enacted gun restrictions?

[Expectareaction]

Its absurdly easy to make a bomb, we were making fertilizer pipe bombs when I was 12. We were just using plastic film cases instead of pipe--thus less explosive and firework size.

Seriously, 8th grade science class is all the education one needs. If you can make a box of brownies you can make an explosive device.

What kind of childhood did you have? You were making bombs as a12 year old? And still, why are guns still preferred by terrorists here in the us if bombs are so much easier and more deadly?

I had a normal childhood, and I honestly don't know a single person in the real world who couldn't make a nailbomb, well some of the women I know. But seriously what kind of childhood did you have? You never read a book? You never bought a pack of firecrackers and cut them open, you never played with matches to see just what you could do? Every child in my neighborhood did these things...oh yeah. See when I was a child we went to this massive training camp called "outside". I'm guessing you learned how to make android apps, and wear guy fawkes masks or something.
I could change the oil in a car at 12, identify when the tires needed to be rotated, and hop a fence.

Boston bombers, Tim McVeigh, Abortion Clinic bombing, Atlanta Olympic bomb plot, Unibomber, etc etc
I'm not sure where you get that terrorists in this country prefer guns. It seems the more organized ones prefer bombs.

[Grinning Dragon]

Probably not this then?

I probably confused you by quoting myself. Sorry. I was just displeased Nordia was totally ignoring my post so I thought I'd renew the discussion on this new page.

Its ok, I got the gist of what you were trying to ask. Thought it would be a nice tongue in cheek kind of a post of such an odd pistol, since the usage of "normal handguns" is somewhat subjective.

[Christiaanistan]

One point I would like to raise. There seems to be a sort of sense, in these discussions, that this violent act occurred because we have been doing something wrong, and somehow that wrong needs to be remedied. Nooooooooooooo!!!!!!!!!

http://www.theatlantic.com/internationa ... ex/396122/

It's not something we are doing wrong. The world around us is genuinely kind of politically unstable, right now. It's not some horrible defect in our laws. We haven't sinned, somehow, to bring this violence upon us. The world is just, in general, not all that stable presently, and we have just seen one of the impacts of it.

Sometimes, violent and horrible things just happen. We pick up the pieces, try to keep more people from being hurt, and keep trying to live our lives. That's the only thing we can rationally try to do, under the circumstances.

[Paddy O Fernature]

What kind of childhood did you have? You were making bombs as a12 year old? And still, why are guns still preferred by terrorists here in the us if bombs are so much easier and more deadly?

I had a normal childhood, and I honestly don't know a single person in the real world who couldn't make a nailbomb, well some of the women I know. But seriously what kind of childhood did you have? You never read a book? You never bought a pack of firecrackers and cut them open, you never played with matches to see just what you could do? Every child in my neighborhood did these things...oh yeah. See when I was a child we went to this massive training camp called "outside". I'm guessing you learned how to make android apps, and wear guy fawkes masks or something.
I could change the oil in a car at 12, identify when the tires needed to be rotated, and hop a fence.

Boston bombers, Tim McVeigh, Abortion Clinic bombing, Atlanta Olympic bomb plot, Unibomber, etc etc
I'm not sure where you get that terrorists in this country prefer guns. It seems the more organized ones prefer bombs.

Sounds alot like my childhood, growing up in the mountains.

Video games and television were a special treat, as inside activities were reserved for days when the weather made it impossible to play outside.

[Novus America]

Other than the guns, what do others here think would stop things like this. I would oppose any Muslim ban like trump wants. What would fight the radicalisation process though?

Easiest way as I have said and cited is partially reversing deinstitutionalization. Commit dangerously unstable people.

Other things. Stricter background checks and physcological checks on immigrants. Especially from terror prone countries.

Ban Saudi and Qatari funding.

Declare the Muslim brotherhood and the many other extremist groups terror orginizations.

More focus on patriotism and civic religion in schools.

Universal military service.

[Gun Manufacturers]

Other than the guns, what do others here think would stop things like this. I would oppose any Muslim ban like trump wants. What would fight the radicalisation process though?

Better mental health services, as well as constantly improving the accuracy and reporting of NICS might help.