Orlando Nightclub Shooting

[Mousebumples]

This is the new NSG thread to discuss the Orlando Nightclub Shooting on the morning (US) of June 12th.

All posters in this thread should consider themselves duly warned to not threadjack. That was a major issue in the previous thread, as noted by my colleague Kyrusia, so let's leave other topics in their respective threads, shall we?

Additionally, we understand that this is a sensitive issue for many here, especially for those that may have a personal connection to this incident. We encourage you to be polite to each other. We appreciate that this is a topic over which people have strong feelings - but that is no excuse to be rude, so do keep the OSRS in mind.

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[New Dukaine]

First! Sorry. This is very sad and my hearts go out to the victims

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

This was a tragedy.

My heart goes out to the victims of the horrible event.

I pray for those in hospital to make a swift and full recovery.

[Yumyumsuppertime]

Lin-Manuel Miranda gave an enormously moving acceptance speech for Best Score for Hamilton in which he referenced this tragedy. I've excerpted part of it in my sig, but I recommend listening to the entire thing. I was an emotional wreck afterwards.

[Imperializt Russia]

Everything on the shooting to come out has come out, so I'm not sure what's left here, but the aftermath.

One example - Owen Jones, a gay writer and left-wing columnist appeared on Sky News (right-wing TV news channel - think as British Fox but less overt if that helps you), and walked off in disgust over what he felt was a whitewash of the nature of the attack - an attack against an LGBT venue, against its largely LGBT patrons.
He wrote an article on what he felt.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfre ... -sexuality

[Benuty]

Yes was mostly on reddit for this due to how toxic the last thread was.

[Imperializt Russia]

Yes was mostly on reddit for this due to how toxic the last thread was.

Reddit isn't where I'd think of going for "less toxic".

[Outer Sparta]

It's disheartening to even hear this. Condolences to victims and families.

[Valaran]

Lin-Manuel Miranda gave an enormously moving acceptance speech for Best Score for Hamilton in which he referenced this tragedy. I've excerpted part of it in my sig, but I recommend listening to the entire thing. I was an emotional wreck afterwards.

The emotion behind that sonnet was... yeah, I nearly cracked on listening to it. Thanks for posting it.

[Fartsniffage]

But what's the topic for discussion here? OP didn't even tag a courtesy question at the end of the post...

[Benuty]

Yes was mostly on reddit for this due to how toxic the last thread was.

Reddit isn't where I'd think of going for "less toxic".

Technically the subreddit morbid reality was pretty civilized about the topic.

Now with others you got me there.

[Lupolska]

Yes was mostly on reddit for this due to how toxic the last thread was.

same. i stayed on /pol/

[Gauthier]

Omar Mateen was noted to have been a native born American citizen who despite repeated questionings and surveillance by the FBI was still allowed to legally purchase the guns he used for the shooting, so to blame this solely on Islam and Muslim immigrants while ignoring the relatively lax to nonexistent regulations against people with multiple red flags like Mateen being allowed to purchase firearms is disingenuous and will not prevent future incidents.

Also noted was that an armed security guard was in the club shooting back at Mateen and failed to stop him, which disputes the right-wing assertion that arming the citizenry is more effective at preventing gun violence than preventing red flags from getting them in the first place.

[Lamaredia]

Yes was mostly on reddit for this due to how toxic the last thread was.

Reddit isn't where I'd think of going for "less toxic".

Considering that the only place that had discussions open was The Donald, I think you're correct with that assessment.

[Sharania]

I’m still emotional, so please – some understanding and forgiveness for what I’m about to say.

Clearly, what have happened yesterday will went down in history on par with 9/11. This was unprecedented. Especially – because such atrocity happened on American soil.

NO amount of warm and sympathetic words, expressing the condolences to familes and loved ones of martyred on that day could ever bring them back. Still – I'm saying them.

NO amount of words of condemnation and basic human outrage, expressing anger at the vile act perpetrated in the Country that embraces both Freedom and Acceptance of Multitudes, would ever prevent the massacre that happened today. Still – I silently say them as well.

The whole world is now mourning this act of barbarity, standing together with the United States and their people. It is time for sorrow – for now. And soon – there must be time for action. For such crimes that the one that happened on 6/12 should NOT happened again.

Never Again! I repeat – NEVER AGAIN!

Whom should we channel our anger and indignation at? Well, look up at this article:

Fifty people have been killed, including the assailant, and at least 53 injured in an attack inside a gay nightclub in the US state of Florida, authorities said, in the worst mass shooting in US history.

Authorities identified the shooter on Sunday as Omar Mateen, a 29-year-old man born in New York with Afghan origins.
Mateen, who was armed with an assault-type rifle and a handgun, was killed in a shootout with at least 11 police officers inside the Pulse nightclub in Orlando.

Ron Hopper, special FBI agent in charge of the Orlando office, confirmed that Mateen was interviewed twice by the agency in 2013, after he made "inflammatory comments" to co-workers alleging possible "terrorist ties".

In 2014, authorities interrogated Mateen anew for possible ties to an American suicide bomber.

In both cases, the FBI closed the investigations as they turned out to be "inconclusive" at that time, Hopper said.

Hopper also confirmed media reports that Mateen made 911 calls to police during the standoff, and referred to the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant (ISIL also known as ISIS) group.

[snip]

Police said they carried out a "controlled explosion" at the club hours after the shooting broke out, while entering the nightclub.

Apparently, this Mateen was already severely homophobic, abusive and generally unstable, also known to have visited jihadi websites (possibly finding a justification for his behaviour).

The authorities knew that. And did nothing. Absolutely no-thing.

How can we now sneer at Belgians for their leniency and naivety, which lead to the terrible attacks in Brussels not so long ago, if a noted pro-jihadists in the US are allowed not only to go without surveillance, but also (absolutely legally!) to purchase weapons, with which they would later murder and maim in cold blood dozens of innocents?

And so I say – J’accuse!

I accuse the incompetent police force and the SWAT team leadership, which resulted in the number of deaths to jump from 20 to 50 during their attempt to storm the club.

I accuse the FBI and all agencies responsible, for not tagging a possible terrorist, which resulted in deaths of innocents. Their blood is on their conscience!

Finally – I accuse the President of the US of A, the commander in chief, the one vested with trust of the American people itself. I accuse Barack H. Obama, for betraying the trust of the people he promised to protect.

As a bare minimum – I expect a lot of resignations from those who fumbled or failed in their duty to serve and protect. Hopefully, those who would replace them will be up to the task.

[Rhodevus]

My heart goes out to the families of the victims, as well as to all the LGBT community which was no doubt effected by this violence

[Olerand]

Omar Mateen was noted to have been a native born American citizen who despite repeated questionings and surveillance by the FBI was still allowed to legally purchase the guns he used for the shooting, so to blame this solely on Islam and Muslim immigrants while ignoring the relatively lax to nonexistent regulations against people with multiple red flags like Mateen being allowed to purchase firearms is disingenuous and will not prevent future incidents.

Also noted was that an armed security guard was in the club shooting back at Mateen and failed to stop him, which disputes the right-wing assertion that arming the citizenry is more effective at preventing gun violence than preventing red flags from getting them in the first place.

So how about both? America's gun laws are insane, Islam has a problem with the 21st century.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

I said this earlier in social media and I will say it again: there isn't much I can add about this incident. All I know is that I love all my friends and family who are LGBT and they're a blessing to me.

[Scarlet Tides]

The authorities knew that. And did nothing. Absolutely no-thing.

Pray tell what were they supposed to do? Dudes like him can go buy weapons as they please.

[Olerand]

Snip.

Finally – I accuse the President of the US of A, the commander in chief, the one vested with trust of the American people itself. I accuse Barak Obama, for betraying the trust of the people he promised to protect.

As a bare minimum – I expect a lot of resignations from those who fumbled or failed in their duty to serve and protect. Hopefully, those who would replace them will be up to the task.

Why?

[Lamaredia]

I’m still emotional, so please – some understanding and forgiveness for what I’m about to say.

SNIP

Finally – I accuse the President of the US of A, the commander in chief, the one vested with trust of the American people itself. I accuse Barak Obama, for betraying the trust of the people he promised to protect.

As a bare minimum – I expect a lot of resignations from those who fumbled or failed in their duty to serve and protect. Hopefully, those who would replace them will be up to the task.

I agree in large with your statement, however, when it comes to President Obama, what do you propose he do? He's not the one tasked with overseeing potential terrorists. He's not the one writing the laws. He's not the one prosecuting the attackers.

[Insaeldor]

Omar Mateen was noted to have been a native born American citizen who despite repeated questionings and surveillance by the FBI was still allowed to legally purchase the guns he used for the shooting, so to blame this solely on Islam and Muslim immigrants while ignoring the relatively lax to nonexistent regulations against people with multiple red flags like Mateen being allowed to purchasing firearms is disingenuous and will not prevent future incidents.

Also noted was that an armed security guard was in the club shooting back at Mateen and failed to stop him, which disputes the right-wing assertion that arming the citizenry is more effective at preventing gun violence than preventing red flags from getting them in the first place.

Sorry but guns don't make someone contemplate killing gays. Now the multiple homophobic verses in the quran may have done the trick. We can argue all down about how many he would have killed without a gun but the fact is he'd still would have attempted this weather he had access to a firearms or not. His religious radicalism drive him to do so. It would have been a mass stabbing if he couldn't have get a gun. We should be focused on counteracting the ideology that drives these sorts of actions and not the tool of which are used.

[Lamaredia]

The authorities knew that. And did nothing. Absolutely no-thing.

Pray tell what were they supposed to do? Dudes like him can go buy weapons as they please.

He should've been put on a blacklist to be completely honest with you. To buy the AR-18 you have to get a license, and go through background checks that are very extensive. Had he been put on a blacklist due to the suspicions that were against him, then he wouldn't have been able to buy the weapon.

[Big Brain City]

I'm not good at grief management, but I can try for anyone affected by the attack, if they so please.

The authorities knew that. And did nothing. Absolutely no-thing.

Pray tell what were they supposed to do? Dudes like him can go buy weapons as they please.

"People who visit jihadi websites can't get weapons" becomes the summation of a new legal document to be put into force with immediacy?

I said this earlier in social media and I will say it again: there isn't much I can add about this incident. All I know is that I love all my friends and family who are LGBT and they're a blessing to me.

None of them were hurt in this shooting, were they?

[Scarlet Tides]

Pray tell what were they supposed to do? Dudes like him can go buy weapons as they please.

He should've been put on a blacklist to be completely honest with you. To buy the AR-18 you have to get a license, and go through background checks that are very extensive. Had he been put on a blacklist due to the suspicions that were against him, then he wouldn't have been able to buy the weapon.

I don't even know why things like AR-18s can be purchased by the general public. Literally only thing I can understand is ranchers.