Is Religion Incompatible with the Modern World?

[Aelex]

Wait what? Victim complex the corner of political thought? I'm not the one railing about PC Police censoring my free expression because I hate "darkies" or whatever you call immigrants now a days.

No. Rather you're rambling because people dare to use the term "straw-man" rather than "straw-woman" to call one of your bullshit argument and throw a tantrum each time people forget even for a milli-second how much of a special snowflake you are.
Also, nice strawman here mate but, apart from the fact that I'm the grand-son of a Syrian migrant and therefore find this little shitshow of your rather loathsome, it's not like I'm the one throwing random racist remarks out of nowhere.

[Nariterrr]

Wait what? Victim complex the corner of political thought? I'm not the one railing about PC Police censoring my free expression because I hate "darkies" or whatever you call immigrants now a days.

No. Rather you're rambling because people dare to use the term "straw-man" rather than "straw-woman" to call one of your bullshit argument and throw a tantrum each time people forget even for a milli-second how much of a special snowflake you are.
Also, nice strawman here mate but, apart from the fact that I'm the grand-son of a Syrian migrant and therefore find this little shitshow of your rather loathsome, it's not like I'm the one throwing random racist remarks out of nowhere.

Last time I checked, French people arent a race.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

Wait what? Victim complex the corner of political thought? I'm not the one railing about PC Police censoring my free expression because I hate "darkies" or whatever you call immigrants now a days.

No. Rather you're rambling because people dare to use the term "straw-man" rather than "straw-woman" to call one of your bullshit argument and throw a tantrum each time people forget even for a milli-second how much of a special snowflake you are.
Also, nice strawman here mate but, apart from the fact that I'm the grand-son of a Syrian migrant and therefore find this little shitshow of your rather loathsome, it's not like I'm the one throwing random racist remarks out of nowhere.

Last I checked that last bit was this thing called a joke. Who's getting their underwear in a bunch now?

[Jochizyd Republic]

It's all about connotation, technically 'jihad' means inner struggle but we usually attribute it to war in the name of Allah.

So we're going full P.C and can't call a cat, a cat anymore, now?

That's not politically correct. That's just...correct.

Actually jihad means struggle. But the Greater Jihad has always been in the orthodox definition, the inner struggle. The aggressing disbeleivers of the soul being the ones to be brought to submission.

Lesser Jihad is physical holy war. Which is of course legitimate against the right people.

You can call it political correctness all you want. It's not going to change the actual definition.

[Aelex]

Last I checked that last bit was this thing called a joke. Who's getting their underwear in a bunch now?

My God. You're litterally becoming Keemstar. It's such a bizarre process that is happening in front of my eyes right now.
And you see, I happen to like black humor and would probably have passed this remark as indeed being a mere joke from most; but, coming from someone as "progressive" and quick to call people racist and islamophobe, I can't help but to see it as a form of closeted racism.

[Jochizyd Republic]

Because the values of the modern West conflict with traditional Christian morality.

Really, you could argue that the foundation of Western philosophy arose from Christianity when people started to deploy a good amount of scepticism to their beliefs and realised some things could stay, and others, shouldn't.

I wouldn't say that. Applying Greek methods or reasoning to your scriptures in order to crack some kind of higher meaning isn't exactly skepticism or temoving anything.

[Jochizyd Republic]

No. Rather you're rambling because people dare to use the term "straw-man" rather than "straw-woman" to call one of your bullshit argument and throw a tantrum each time people forget even for a milli-second how much of a special snowflake you are.
Also, nice strawman here mate but, apart from the fact that I'm the grand-son of a Syrian migrant and therefore find this little shitshow of your rather loathsome, it's not like I'm the one throwing random racist remarks out of nowhere.

Last time I checked, French people arent a race.

Still pretty uncalled for to make an out of nowhere jab at his being French like that.

[Aelex]

That's not politically correct. That's just...correct.

Actually jihad means struggle. But the Greater Jihad has always been in the orthodox definition, the inner struggle. The aggressing disbeleivers of the soul being the ones to be brought to submission.

Lesser Jihad is physical holy war. Which is of course legitimate against the right people.

You can call it political correctness all you want. It's not going to change the actual definition.

Actually, I was refering to him saying that U.M.N shouldn't use the term "heresy" because it had bad connotations, sorry if I was unclear.

[Renewed Imperial Germany]

Last I checked that last bit was this thing called a joke. Who's getting their underwear in a bunch now?

My God. You're litterally becoming Keemstar. It's such a bizarre process that is happening in front of my eyes right now.
And you see, I happen to like black humor and would probably have passed this remark as indeed being a mere joke from most; but, coming from someone as "progressive" and quick to call people racist and islamophobe, I can't help but to see it as a form of closeted racism.

Take progressive out of quotes. I'm not the one that wants to let people die in war torn countries because their brown-colored.

And no, its not racism. French people are fine. I've met quite a few, they were great. Thats not to say I particularly like the way the government of France goes about handling religious minorities, though.

[Jochizyd Republic]

That's not politically correct. That's just...correct.

Actually jihad means struggle. But the Greater Jihad has always been in the orthodox definition, the inner struggle. The aggressing disbeleivers of the soul being the ones to be brought to submission.

Lesser Jihad is physical holy war. Which is of course legitimate against the right people.

You can call it political correctness all you want. It's not going to change the actual definition.

Actually, I was refering to him saying that U.M.N shouldn't use the term "heresy" because it had bad connotations, sorry if I was unclear.

Ah. alright.

In that case that just makes their arguement even more confusing. They admit Jihad has multiple meanings but only connect "heresy" to it's worst use.

[Jochizyd Republic]

My God. You're litterally becoming Keemstar. It's such a bizarre process that is happening in front of my eyes right now.
And you see, I happen to like black humor and would probably have passed this remark as indeed being a mere joke from most; but, coming from someone as "progressive" and quick to call people racist and islamophobe, I can't help but to see it as a form of closeted racism.

Take progressive out of quotes. I'm not the one that wants to let people die in war torn countries because their brown-colored.

And no, its not racism. French people are fine. I've met quite a few, they were great. Thats not to say I particularly like the way the government of France goes about handling religious minorities, though.

Syrians are pretty white. Or can be.

[Aelex]

Take progressive out of quotes. I'm not the one that wants to let people die in war torn countries because their brown-colored.

And no, its not racism. French people are fine. I've met quite a few, they were great. Thats not to say I particularly like the way the government of France goes about handling religious minorities, though.

Once more, stop trying to brand people as racist because they disagree with your political opinion, it's just gonna end up making you look like a fool; especially when you're, and let me repeat this once more, trying to call the grand-son of a Syrian racist toward "brown people". You're the only one who's caring about their race, here. What I'm motivated by when I argue for refusing migrants, it's their lack of qualification and potential political indoctrination. But whatever, keep calling every "cis-white-male" an evil transphobic racist mysognist if it help you sleeps at night and feel like you haven't lost completely the argument.

[Aelex]

Syrians are pretty white. Or can be.

Yep actually. It's from this branch of my family that I got my white-as-snow skin every wannabe nazi would dream for.

[Cedoria]

Unfortunate, but generally it is fairly hard to reform a religion that already claims perfection.

Religion is incompatible with a modern, even vaguely democratic society, it is a poison and a delusion, ripping entire societies apart for no reason that is relevant, the world will be better off without it, and at the very least, the first principle of religion should be the same as the first principle of Fight Club.

Unfortunately, believers almost by definition try to claim to temporal power in the material world, which is the only one that matters. So, they have to interfere in other people's lives.

I reject democracy point blank, so that doesn't really bother me. I would rather have a state socialist society with the Church as a regulatory body on morality.

State socialism with church based morality would be incompatible and contradictory, since socialism is essentially secularist.

If socialism believes in equality, then it cannot be governed or policed by religion, given it is contemptuous of women and coercive to children, for instance.

[Cedoria]

Take progressive out of quotes. I'm not the one that wants to let people die in war torn countries because their brown-colored.

And no, its not racism. French people are fine. I've met quite a few, they were great. Thats not to say I particularly like the way the government of France goes about handling religious minorities, though.

Syrians are pretty white. Or can be.

White is not a race, it's not even a colour really, neither is Caucasian (unless you actually have a genetic connection to the Caucasus)

Let's accept that the only context in which 'race' is accurate is when discussing the human race vis-a-vis other species.

[Cedoria]

By that definition all religion is heretical, since none of it is even remotely true.

I would hope it's less truthful then what I said though.

[Wallenburg]

Syrians are pretty white. Or can be.

White is not a race, it's not even a colour really, neither is Caucasian (unless you actually have a genetic connection to the Caucasus)

Let's accept that the only context in which 'race' is accurate is when discussing the human race vis-a-vis other species.

We can do that when we no longer have religious preachers saying black people ought to be slaves.

[Cedoria]

White is not a race, it's not even a colour really, neither is Caucasian (unless you actually have a genetic connection to the Caucasus)

Let's accept that the only context in which 'race' is accurate is when discussing the human race vis-a-vis other species.

We can do that when we no longer have religious preachers saying black people ought to be slaves.

Agreed, I didn't say that it was their fault, that many groups identify themselves as such, but I'm basically a supporter of the non-racialist position. I can understand why others choose to do that.

[Novsvacro]

Again with the word choice, using words like heresies make you sound radical or fundamentalist, kind of like the Muslims on the other side of the aisle.

Heresy is actually Ancient Greek for "choice". It only has a negative connotation because the Church of Rome had a bad habit of burning people they chose to disagree with, and I don't mean by insulting their mothers.

Semantic drift, yo.

I don't see how the origin of the term heresy somehow has bearing on its validity as a term.

[Grave_n_idle]

I reject democracy point blank, so that doesn't really bother me. I would rather have a state socialist society with the Church as a regulatory body on morality.

State socialism with church based morality would be incompatible and contradictory, since socialism is essentially secularist.

If socialism believes in equality, then it cannot be governed or policed by religion, given it is contemptuous of women and coercive to children, for instance.

That seems like a complaint about specific religions, rather than just 'religion' as a concept.

[Cedoria]

State socialism with church based morality would be incompatible and contradictory, since socialism is essentially secularist.

If socialism believes in equality, then it cannot be governed or policed by religion, given it is contemptuous of women and coercive to children, for instance.

That seems like a complaint about specific religions, rather than just 'religion' as a concept.

Not really, the very concept of religion is slavish, servile and immoral. It doesn't matter which one it is, although some are more dangerous then others in how they seem to be practiced.

[Grave_n_idle]

That seems like a complaint about specific religions, rather than just 'religion' as a concept.

Not really, the very concept of religion is slavish, servile and immoral. It doesn't matter which one it is...

I think that's nonsensical.

You might be confusing how some religions have been, with what they could be.

Which means the complaint is about specific religions, not 'religion'.

[Jykku]

My belief is that:
1) if a religion attempts to explain a scientific occurrence that hasn't yet been explained (and even a number that have) as "something God did", then it's incompatible with modern society
2) if a religion completely denies the existence of a proven scientific occurrence (such as Christianity denying Evolution), then it's incompatible with modern society
3) if a religion tells its followers to completely oppress an entire section of people (such as various minorities, women, the LGBT community, and of course anybody not following their religion), especially if the "justification" is that "it's God's will", then it's incompatible with modern society
4) if a religion tells its followers to KILL massive amounts of people either because God says so and/or because they will be rewarded in Heaven for it, then it's incompatible with modern society
5) if a religion tells you that ALL modern technological advancements are against the will of their God, then it's incompatible with modern society
6) if a religion tells you that you must remain poor and are not allowed to become individually wealthy because it's God's will (and meanwhile the leaders of the religion live lavishly), then it's incompatible with modern society
7) related to the previous point, if a religion tells you that you must donate all your money to the church (especially if it's "because God will reward you in the next life"), then it's incompatible with modern society
8 ) if a religion DOESN'T tell you to be good to each other and do good works to help your fellow human beings, it's incompatible with modern society
9) related to the previous point, if a religion DOES tell you to be good to each other and do good works to help your fellow human beings, then turns around and endorses denying OTHER humans rights (related to point 3) because God doesn't approve of them somehow, then it's incompatible with modern society
10) if children get Cancer and die, and a religion tells you it's part of God's plan, then not only is the religion incompatible with modern society, but it's a BAD religion, PERIOD
11) related to the previous point, if somebody gets sick, then gets better, and people say that it was because of God and prayer and NOT because of the DOCTORS treating them, then the religion is incompatible with modern society

I'm sure I have a few more, but I can't think of them at the moment

again, these are just my opinions, though I'm sure some of you share them


also, seeing the word "religion" so much has made it a weird-looking word for me now

[MERIZoC]

That seems like a complaint about specific religions, rather than just 'religion' as a concept.

Not really, the very concept of religion is slavish, servile and immoral. It doesn't matter which one it is, although some are more dangerous then others in how they seem to be practiced.

By that train of though, following any sort of moral code is the same. We all bind ourselves to something, whether or not it's a deity. Personally, I don't believe because I don't see the evidence. But a religious person is not in any way necessarily more a slave than you or I.

[Cedoria]

Not really, the very concept of religion is slavish, servile and immoral. It doesn't matter which one it is...

I think that's nonsensical.

You might be confusing how some religions have been, with what they could be.

Which means the complaint is about specific religions, not 'religion'.

I'm not confusing it. I mean it.

It is not nonsensical to say that it is servile and sadomasochistic to believe in a benign, tyrannical creator who places you under eternal, inescapable surveillance, intervenes in human affairs, cares who sleeps with whom, what food we eat, books we read, etc etc.

My point is that only somebody who wishes to live as a slave believes this, or regards it as moral to believe as such.

It is a statement of what religions ARE. If you want some abstract intellectual conception about what they could be in some imaginary universe, fine, but I'm not interested in it (and I don't think it changes much either), I'm concerned with its implications in the real world.