Gay Nightclub Attacked in Orlando, FL

[Giovenith]

If I keep bringing up legitimate concerns about radical Islam, I can continue to justify taking out my frustrations on uninvolved Muslims who play no role in terrorism like my own personal human dartboards. If I keep bringing up legitimate concerns about radical Islam, I can continue to justify taking out my frustrations on uninvolved Muslims who play no role in terrorism like my own personal human dartboards. If I keep pointing out that terrorism exists, I can continue to justify taking out my frustrations on uninvolved Muslims who play no role in terrorism like my own personal human dartboards.

People are not fucking stupid. Nobody thinks that Islam is without flaw or that its radicals are not a danger. We just realize that we can work on trying to fight terrorism and dismantle the dangers that Islam is serving without ganging up on and circle-punching non-terrorist Muslims as an outlet for our fear and anger in the meantime.

Oh, I recognize that there are many uninvolved Muslims who are perfectly good people. Many are probably outraged. But if we focus on them, and not on Radical Islam, and not on the fact that many(not most) Muslims are radical fundamentalists(when compared to Christians), we see that there is an issue.

The issue, mind you, is bigger in Europe in regards to integration, but we certainly need to work hard here to prevent further terrorist attacks here. I have no qualms with limiting the number of refugees from Syria and Iraq, as well as immigrants from other Muslim countries. We need more screening, more background checks, etc etc.

So, no, I'm not circle punching non terrorist Muslims, I'm just sick and tired of people crying Islamophobe like the boy who cried wolf.

Except that the people who have been proposing "solutions" to dealing with the issue of radical Islam have been largely careless about whether or not their propositions serve as wanton collateral damage to innocent Muslims, if not outright stating that they have no qualms with throwing them all under the bus "for the greater good" or don't believe that there are any innocent Muslims at all. Branding them with special patches like German Jews, leaving injured people and children to the seas and deserts, expecting them to "Just be understanding of why we are suspicious of them and accept that discrimination is necessary" (real quote from a personal conversation)?

Even if radicals are a serious threat, if you are making jack effort to sort the radicals from the normals in your execution of "justice," you are being phobic. We should not be willing to throw others under the bus out of fear, as many people have already stated, that's exactly what the terrorists want. Bitter, back-stabbed, "I didn't even do anything why are you persecuting me-!" Muslims creates more potential soldiers for them.

[Outer Sparta]

He could have been crazy, white, and any other religion, and he could have shot all those people.

I completely agree with what you are saying. I simply fail to see how it addresses my point.

Had he been a level headed, middle class white baptist, he likely would not have committed the shooting.

Then why did you say that borderline x equals y statement that blames it on Muslims and minorities? Newtown? Aurora? Any other shooting incident?

[Rhodevus]

He could have been crazy, white, and any other religion, and he could have shot all those people.

I completely agree with what you are saying. I simply fail to see how it addresses my point.

Had he been a level headed, middle class white baptist, he likely would not have committed the shooting.

If he had been level headed (who cares about the rest), he likely would not have committed the shooting.
if he were any religion or any colour or any economic group, but also level headed, this tragedy would not have happened

[Gauthier]

He could have been crazy, white, and any other religion, and he could have shot all those people.

In which case the thread would be a sermon on the lack of comprehensive mental illness treatment rather than a self-congratulatory backpatfest on how they were right about Islam and Muslims being innately evil and hostile to all human life.

[Camicon]

Add: "sociopath", "warmonger", and "xenophobe" to the list.

And I'll add: "Incapable of sticking to facts," "Name caller" and "Bad at making arguments" to my list.

Seriously. Why are we making lists?

We should be talking about Muslims and how they (or, at least, some of them) kill people.

Everyone of every group of every demographic kills people. Being Muslim does not make you any more likely to kill someone than being non-Muslim.

[Eisarn-Ara]

We basically know which countries provide formal and material support for Islamic terrorism, no?

Saudia Arabia?
Pakistan?
Iran?

The US needs to bomb them all into the ground.

Holy fuck, you aren't wrong.

[East Catalina]

Add: "sociopath", "warmonger", and "xenophobe" to the list.

And I'll add: "Incapable of sticking to facts," "Name caller" and "Bad at making arguments" to my list.

Seriously. Why are we making lists?

We should be talking about Muslims and how they (or, at least, some of them) kill people.

Your plans likely involve the deportation of some of my friends.
I won't stand for that.

[The New Sea Territory]

I don't give a fuck what you say other people condone. Queer people have been harassed by Christians for over a thousand years.

Calm down. No need to cuss me out. As far as some of the examples that have been mentioned-Westboro Baptists and the Lord's Resistance Army, those are nutty fringe groups. From what I know, the Catholic Church officially says that all homosexuals must be treated with respect and compassion. It's the fault of individual believers if they don't do so.

I'll calm down when Christians and Muslims stop harassing queer people.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Somebody make a second thread about the Saudis, wew lad, I really can't believe that we're still funding them.

The US government does because it's "strategic" in a foreign policy that's been an abject failure for decades now to do so. They return the favor by supporting radical Islam's spread throughout the world, preaching that stuff like what happened in Orlando is A-OK, and the US government still supports them.

Because it's "strategic".

Don't know what Canada's government excuse is, though.

Saw Justin Trudeau's statement on the attacks on Twitter and all I could do was roll my eyes.

You give billions to the Saudis in money and military aid yet you claim that you care about gay people?

You do know that the last deal to the Saudis was Harper's idea right?

[Mega City 5]

Exactly. This reasoning by Mega City 5 doesn't make any sense.

Except, it was a non answer.

I said: "Had he not been crazy (or a number of other things)...he would not have committed the shooting."

Her answer: "He could have been crazy...and still done it."

That doesn't contradict what I said.

[Mega City 5]

Your plans likely involve the deportation of some of my friends.
I won't stand for that.

You might not.

But I'm hoping that Trump will.

And ultimately, his opinion will matter more than yours.

So, y'know. There's that.

[Conserative Morality]

ISIS still controls sizable territory, and the fucking Iraqis turn tail and run every time they see an ISIS fingernail.

The second part is not at all true. Not at this point, at least.

And really? Are you seriously happy about the Iranians making gains? Those scumbags, who declare death to America and want to exterminate Israel and all Jews?

'Death to America' is a long-overused slogan that they clearly don't take seriously. While they do want to exterminate Israel (which is deplorable), they most certainly do not want to do so to all Jews.

Cooperating with the Iranians while the moderates are in power strengthens the moderates' claim that the US and Iran don't have to be enemies. Intensifying hostility just puts the hardliners back in power.

Iran needs to be contained, not be allowed to gain territory.

Iran isn't 'gaining territory'. FFS, it's helping Iraq retake territory on the opposite end of the country.

[East Catalina]

We basically know which countries provide formal and material support for Islamic terrorism, no?

Saudia Arabia?
Pakistan?
Iran?

The US needs to bomb them all into the ground.

Holy fuck, you aren't wrong.

What's the likelihood this won't devolve into the deadliest conflict in human history?
Try not to give out perverse incentives along the way to your effort to just get rid of Islamic terrorism, okay? They will certainly affect my life.

[Mega City 5]

Everyone of every group of every demographic kills people. Being Muslim does not make you any more likely to kill someone than being non-Muslim.

Was Omar Mateen a white Christian?

What about the people in San Bernadino?

How about all of those people molesting and assaulting women in Cologne?

And what about the hordes of people that Charles Martel had to fight off?

All white people, right?

[Major-Tom]

The US government does because it's "strategic" in a foreign policy that's been an abject failure for decades now to do so. They return the favor by supporting radical Islam's spread throughout the world, preaching that stuff like what happened in Orlando is A-OK, and the US government still supports them.

Because it's "strategic".

Don't know what Canada's government excuse is, though.

Saw Justin Trudeau's statement on the attacks on Twitter and all I could do was roll my eyes.

You give billions to the Saudis in money and military aid yet you claim that you care about gay people?

You do know that the last deal to the Saudis was Harper's idea right?

Doesn't excuse Trudeau being an ass.

[San Lumen]

People should not condemn all Muslims for the actions a few crazy people. Islam does not condone these actions. Saying things like all Muslims should be banned from entering the country or we should bomb the crap out of them or take out their families (which is a war crime) is only giving ISIS exactly what they want.

Again, a vast majority of Muslims think that homosexuality should be illegal and a very large number support Sharia law and honor killings.

Mainstream Islam, not just Extremist Islam, while not necessarily supporting actions like this, certainly fosters them.

Even if they do they are not going to be able to change laws in Europe or the West. Supporting is one thing but acting on these beliefs is another.

[Unified Governments]

Leave US troops. It's the mistake that Obama made, withdrawing troops so that ISIS could rise. Had US troops been left there ISIS could have been destroyed before they took any territory.

Yeah, I keep forgetting that Obama was totally responsible for that and not at all adhering to previously made agreements and the demands of a sovereign nation.

Obama allowed it to happen. He could have tried to negotiate with the Iraqis to allow US troops to stay longer, but he didn't. In fact he made it one of his campaign promises to withdraw troops from Iraq and went on a victory lap when it happened.

[Luminesa]

He could have been crazy, white, and any other religion, and he could have shot all those people.

I completely agree with what you are saying. I simply fail to see how it addresses my point.

Had he been a level headed, middle class white baptist, he likely would not have committed the shooting.

What if he was a level-headed, middle-class, black nondenominational? Or a level-headed, lower-class, Hispanic Catholic?

[Outer Sparta]

The US government does because it's "strategic" in a foreign policy that's been an abject failure for decades now to do so. They return the favor by supporting radical Islam's spread throughout the world, preaching that stuff like what happened in Orlando is A-OK, and the US government still supports them.

Because it's "strategic".

Don't know what Canada's government excuse is, though.

Saw Justin Trudeau's statement on the attacks on Twitter and all I could do was roll my eyes.

You give billions to the Saudis in money and military aid yet you claim that you care about gay people?

You do know that the last deal to the Saudis was Harper's idea right?

America's incompetence still deals with Saudis. Ganos's Canada argument makes little sense when compared to our screwed up foreign policy.

[Conserative Morality]

Could someone make a Saudi Arabia thread? I really think the discussion is important in the greater context of Islamic radicalism but I suck at OPs.

[East Catalina]

He could have been crazy, white, and any other religion, and he could have shot all those people.

In which case the thread would be a sermon on the lack of comprehensive mental illness treatment rather than a self-congratulatory backpatfest on how they were right about Islam and Muslims being innately evil and hostile to all human life.

Just like dem damn aliens from outer space.

[Camicon]

Everyone of every group of every demographic kills people. Being Muslim does not make you any more likely to kill someone than being non-Muslim.

Was Omar Mateen a white Christian?

What about the people in San Bernadino?

How about all of those people molesting and assaulting women in Cologne?

And what about the hordes of people that Charles Martel had to fight off?

All white people, right?

Cherry picking incidents doesn't prove you right.

There is literally no scientific evidence to support your position. It is factually wrong.

[Mega City 5]

What if he was a level-headed, middle-class, black nondenominational? Or a level-headed, lower-class, Hispanic Catholic?

He easily could have committed gun crimes in those cases (though probably not a mass shooting).

[United Marxist Nations]

Again, a vast majority of Muslims think that homosexuality should be illegal and a very large number support Sharia law and honor killings.

Mainstream Islam, not just Extremist Islam, while not necessarily supporting actions like this, certainly fosters them.

Even if they do they are not going to be able to change laws in Europe or the West. Supporting is one thing but acting on these beliefs is another.

Many are acting on those beliefs.

And again, you said Islam doesn't approve of the actions, and you're not necessarily correct when well over 80% of Muslims in the Islamic world think homosexuality should be outlawed.

[Vettrera]

Everyone of every group of every demographic kills people. Being Muslim does not make you any more likely to kill someone than being non-Muslim.

Was Omar Mateen a white Christian?

What about the people in San Bernadino?

How about all of those people molesting and assaulting women in Cologne?

And what about the hordes of people that Charles Martel had to fight off?

All white people, right?

Dylan Roof?

Aurora Theatre Shooting?

Columbine?

Sandy Hook?

All non-white people, right?

If you're gonna play the racial superiority card, make sure your race is actually superior