Gay Nightclub Attacked in Orlando, FL

[Major-Tom]

Who do you think? Use a context clue, I'm referring to Radical Muslims who think the West is satan incarnate. Not all Muslims, I shouldn't even have to specify that, but in today's world, I do.

Right, and you propose killing them to 'solve' the problem?

I propose killing members of ISIS who are launching full scale assaults on Kurds, Shiite Muslims, Yazidis, Christians, Jews, and Westerners, yes.

What's your alternative?

[Mega City 5]

Owning a gun is a choice.

So what?

Having a mental illness (who are victims of violent crime more than they are perpetrators of violent crime, compared to the general populations), having a certain skin colour (doesn't make anyone more likely to commit violent crimes), and being raised in a certain religion (again, doesn't make anyone more likely to commit violent crimes), are not.

You are a terrible person.

Call me a terrible person or not, I really don't care. Answer me just one question:

Had omar mateen not been either: 1. crazy, 2. a racial minority or 3. a Muslim, would he have shot all of those people?

Hint: The answer is "no."

[Outer Sparta]

Lots of people who are not crazy are also black, Hispanics, Asians, and others.

Lots of people who are not crazy are also Christians, Muslims, Jews, Hindus, Buddhists, and Shintos.

What's your point?

You can commit a gun crime and not be crazy. That wasn't my point.

This is what I'm saying:

You want to address the problem of gun violence? Then it's silly to point to the inanimate instrument that people use and blame it.

You need to focus on the agents, the people who commit the violence.

And if you do, you'll disproportionately see, in all likelihood:

1. Muslims
2. Crazy people.
3. Racial minorities.

The agent is actually the NRA. Your thinking here that it's just Muslims and racial minorities commit these is false. Provide a source.

[Unified Governments]

We've been doing that. It hasn't worked.

Significant gains by the Iraqi and Iranian armies and by US-backed Kurdish forces is the result of 'not working'?

ISIS still controls sizable territory, and the fucking Iraqis turn tail and run every time they see an ISIS fingernail. And really? Are you seriously happy about the Iranians making gains? Those scumbags, who declare death to America and want to exterminate Israel and all Jews? Iran needs to be contained, not be allowed to gain territory.

[San Lumen]

People should not condemn all Muslims for the actions a few crazy people. Islam does not condone these actions. Saying things like all Muslims should be banned from entering the country or we should bomb the crap out of them or take out their families (which is a war crime) is only giving ISIS exactly what they want.

[Philjia]

Significant gains by the Iraqi and Iranian armies and by US-backed Kurdish forces is the result of 'not working'?

ISIS is just a manifestation of the problem. It's not like the middle east will be bereft of radical islamism once ISIS is gone.

I suspect we may need to invade Saudi Arabia eventually tbh. They're the source of this bullshit. The problem is that involves the occupation of Mecca.

Give it to the Lebanese. Whether they want it or not.

[Gauthier]

Like most people here bother to establish a difference.

Mega City 5 is like the only one not establishing a difference, out of dozens of people. So...

Because all the self-congratulatory backpatting talks about how Islam and Muslims are hostile, etc. in this thread explicitly specify radicals. Right.

[Ganos Lao]

Saudis are the real threat. These movements just change name, but the ideas are from Saudis.

Somebody make a second thread about the Saudis, wew lad, I really can't believe that we're still funding them.

The US government does because it's "strategic" in a foreign policy that's been an abject failure for decades now to do so. They return the favor by supporting radical Islam's spread throughout the world, preaching that stuff like what happened in Orlando is A-OK, and the US government still supports them.

Because it's "strategic".

Don't know what Canada's government excuse is, though.

Saw Justin Trudeau's statement on the attacks on Twitter and all I could do was roll my eyes.

You give billions to the Saudis in money and military aid yet you claim that you care about gay people?

[Chrinthanium]

You don't defeat hate by spouting hate. You don't blame everyone who claims to be a Muslim for everything the radicals do in the same way Christians refuse to be branded by the Fred Phelps of the world. Reading this thread makes me sad to be part of NS today. Really. People are dead, others are hurt, families are torn apart. That's what we should be focusing on right now. Let the politics and the hate rest for another day.

Oh, it makes you sad to be part of an online community? Pity.

Dude, the only hate is being levied against ISIS and terrorists, I think that's really reasonable. The President of the United States just made this political, this whole attack is going to be politicized, feigning civility for the sake of getting online brownie points will do nothing.

I don't give two craps about brownie points with you or anyone else. This is a discussion, that's my opinion. It is stated. Thank you, good day, sir.

[Unified Governments]

We helped create them, yes. And now it's time to obliterate them. Bomb them. Send troops in if necessary. But they can't be allowed to exist.

And when another group rises up since we did nothing to fix the problem?

Leave US troops. It's the mistake that Obama made, withdrawing troops so that ISIS could rise. Had US troops been left there ISIS could have been destroyed before they took any territory.

[Mega City 5]

Add: "sociopath", "warmonger", and "xenophobe" to the list.

And I'll add: "Incapable of sticking to facts," "Name caller" and "Bad at making arguments" to my list.

Seriously. Why are we making lists?

We should be talking about Muslims and how they (or, at least, some of them) kill people.

[Luminesa]

Owning a gun is a choice.

So what?

Having a mental illness (who are victims of violent crime more than they are perpetrators of violent crime, compared to the general populations), having a certain skin colour (doesn't make anyone more likely to commit violent crimes), and being raised in a certain religion (again, doesn't make anyone more likely to commit violent crimes), are not.

You are a terrible person.

Call me a terrible person or not, I really don't care. Answer me just one question:

Had omar mateen not been either: 1. crazy, 2. a racial minority or 3. a Muslim, would he have shot all of those people?

Hint: The answer is "no."

He could have been crazy, white, and any other religion, and he could have shot all those people.

[The Serbian Empire]

Saudis are the real threat. These movements just change name, but the ideas are from Saudis.

Somebody make a second thread about the Saudis, wew lad, I really can't believe that we're still funding them.

What a shame that I might have to depart in a bit to get groceries.

Because it would mean to not deprive ourselves of oil to work with Iran instead. Why did the US even bother getting involved in the Iran stuff with the Shah?

Cold War and the USSR

In hindsight, the USSR was going to collapse under its' own flawed structure and Iran would have been better off with Russians than with what we have today.

[Conserative Morality]

I propose killing members of ISIS who are launching full scale assaults on Kurds, Shiite Muslims, Yazidis, Christians, Jews, and Westerners, yes.

What's your alternative?

Let their fellow Arabs and Muslims kill them. Support those people.

It's so easy to focus your hate when you have the 'other' to direct it at. Grief turns to rage and disaffection with the world. I'm tired of painting a bullseye on our chest.

[Outer Sparta]

Name one.

Omar Mateen. [/thread]

You're completely ignoring the NRA into the equation of gun violence. And no, Muslims that are integrated don't count. Is this another "all x equals y" statement?

[Ganos Lao]

Significant gains by the Iraqi and Iranian armies and by US-backed Kurdish forces is the result of 'not working'?

ISIS is just a manifestation of the problem. It's not like the middle east will be bereft of radical islamism once ISIS is gone.

I suspect we may need to invade Saudi Arabia eventually tbh. They're the source of this bullshit. The problem is that involves the occupation of Mecca.

Saudi Arabia and Iran, to be exact. Not to mention Gulf puppets like Qatar (site of a World Cup prepared for by Nepalese slaves), Kuwait ("Thanks for liberating us from Saddam, American pigdogs. Enjoy your radical Islam!"), and others along the Gulf.

You'd need to invade the whole lot to stop the Sunni and Shiite radicals from exporting this toxic nonsense.

[East Catalina]

They also said that Iran, Pakistan, and Saudi Arabia should be bombed to the ground, with a combined population of 289 million people.

Add: "sociopath", "warmonger", and "xenophobe" to the list.

I don't want to see someone I otherwise agree with get redtexted, so, uh...could you try and ignore him?
/notamod

Right, and you propose killing them to 'solve' the problem?

I propose killing members of ISIS who are launching full scale assaults on Kurds, Shiite Muslims, Yazidis, Christians, Jews, and Westerners, yes.

What's your alternative?

I don't have one, personally. But I feel getting the US armed forces involved to the same extent that we were in 2006 might be counterproductive.

[Camicon]

Owning a gun is a choice.

So what?

Having a mental illness (who are victims of violent crime more than they are perpetrators of violent crime, compared to the general populations), having a certain skin colour (doesn't make anyone more likely to commit violent crimes), and being raised in a certain religion (again, doesn't make anyone more likely to commit violent crimes), are not.

You are a terrible person.

Call me a terrible person or not, I really don't care. Answer me just one question:

Had omar mateen not been either: 1. crazy, 2. a racial minority or 3. a Muslim, would he have shot all of those people?

Hint: The answer is "no."

We don't know if Mateen is mentally ill, his skin colour is irrelevant, and we don't have confirmation as to his motivations.

Now, tell me, do you know what group is statistically most likely to commit domestic terrorism in the USA?

Perfectly sane, white, Christian right-wingers.

You're wrong. And a terrible person. I think that warrants repeating.

[Conserative Morality]

Leave US troops. It's the mistake that Obama made, withdrawing troops so that ISIS could rise. Had US troops been left there ISIS could have been destroyed before they took any territory.

Yeah, I keep forgetting that Obama was totally responsible for that and not at all adhering to previously made agreements and the demands of a sovereign nation.

[Mega City 5]

He could have been crazy, white, and any other religion, and he could have shot all those people.

I completely agree with what you are saying. I simply fail to see how it addresses my point.

Had he been a level headed, middle class white baptist, he likely would not have committed the shooting.

[United Marxist Nations]

People should not condemn all Muslims for the actions a few crazy people. Islam does not condone these actions. Saying things like all Muslims should be banned from entering the country or we should bomb the crap out of them or take out their families (which is a war crime) is only giving ISIS exactly what they want.

Again, a vast majority of Muslims think that homosexuality should be illegal and a very large number support Sharia law and honor killings.

Mainstream Islam, not just Extremist Islam, while not necessarily supporting actions like this, certainly fosters them.

[Outer Sparta]

So what?



Call me a terrible person or not, I really don't care. Answer me just one question:

Had omar mateen not been either: 1. crazy, 2. a racial minority or 3. a Muslim, would he have shot all of those people?

Hint: The answer is "no."

He could have been crazy, white, and any other religion, and he could have shot all those people.

Exactly. This reasoning by Mega City 5 doesn't make any sense.

[Major-Tom]

Somebody make a second thread about the Saudis, wew lad, I really can't believe that we're still funding them.

The US government does because it's "strategic" in a foreign policy that's been an abject failure for decades now to do so. They return the favor by supporting radical Islam's spread throughout the world, preaching that stuff like what happened in Orlando is A-OK, and the US government still supports them.

Because it's "strategic".

Don't know what Canada's government excuse is, though.

Saw Justin Trudeau's statement on the attacks on Twitter and all I could do was roll my eyes.

You give billions to the Saudis in money and military aid yet you claim about gay people?

Oh yeah, it's been a massive failure on our part. The Bush's, the Clinton's, they all find it to be strategic to ally with the Saudis, with other Middle Eastern governments, the Muslim Brotherhood, who subsequently turn around and act in the interest of Radical Islam. So, yeah, that's one reason as to why I'm scared of Hillary in the White House, but that's for another time.

As for Trudeau, he is basically if Derek Zoolander were a politician, I have no words for him.

[The Serbian Empire]

Somebody make a second thread about the Saudis, wew lad, I really can't believe that we're still funding them.

The US government does because it's "strategic" in a foreign policy that's been an abject failure for decades now to do so. They return the favor by supporting radical Islam's spread throughout the world, preaching that stuff like what happened in Orlando is A-OK, and the US government still supports them.

Because it's "strategic".

Don't know what Canada's government excuse is, though.

Saw Justin Trudeau's statement on the attacks on Twitter and all I could do was roll my eyes.

You give billions to the Saudis in money and military aid yet you claim about gay people?

It's because Canada's in NATO which means following the US. It's sickening. At this point, who needs OPEC's radicalized Islam and authoritarian Venezuelan governments.

[Threlizdun]

You don't defeat hate by spouting hate. You don't blame everyone who claims to be a Muslim for everything the radicals do in the same way Christians refuse to be branded by the Fred Phelps of the world. Reading this thread makes me sad to be part of NS today. Really. People are dead, others are hurt, families are torn apart. That's what we should be focusing on right now. Let the politics and the hate rest for another day.

No, we all live in a magical hugbox fairy-tale happyland. HAH; no, this is human depravity at its best, and the century continues, it's only going to get worse from here. Hey, at least Islam showed it's teeth lately, that's nice, maybe Moral Authoritarian pundits with a persecution complex will shut the fuck when asked to somewhat.

This is an attack by an Islamic fundamentist. Islamic fundamentalism is the enemy; Muslims as a whole are not. There are queer Muslims. They suffered today just like all in the LGBTQ community sufferer today. I'm disgusted by what happened, but I'm not going to respond to blind hatred with more blind hatred.