Gay Nightclub Attacked in Orlando, FL

[Valaran]

Fuck no.

Do what the Finns have been doing.

Fucking educate new immigrants and accept them as part of society rather than isolating them into self-contained enclaves which encourage an echo chamber of thought from The Old Country.

I don't have the link on me right now, but the integration in Finland hasn't been an unqualified success. Its not been bad per se (and not always resolvable problems either), and naturally I support similar measures, but the results have been mixed, and there are still plenty of self-contained immigrant enclaves.

You could actually say that some areas of the US have been about as good at integrating certain religious and ethnic minorities.

[Ostroeuropa]

Break up the enclaves with a few laws. If necessary, by force if they wont obey those laws. Move muslims around the country and regulate where they can stay.
Try and isolate them so there's no Islamic community and deal with them as atomized individuals.

They can either be a basement dweller, or join the majority culture. Don't leave them the option of forming their own groups. Try and achieve minimum islamic density, so muslims are as far away from eachother as possible.

It's authoritarian, but its the only way I can see it working.

Ah, yes, giving the government the legal authority to tell people where they have to move is such a great way to deal with your problems, and will only be used against those people.

Actually, wait a minute. It's not even remotely a good idea. What the hell are you thinking?

I've not heard better ones that havn't already been tried and failed.

[Armed Citizens]

I'm going to bet the handgun was the one purchased legally.

This all wouldn't have been a damn problem if at least one of the club patrons had a carry firearm though.

Speculation at best.

If a guy with training failed to stop him why would some yahoo in a mass panic situation be able to do better?

It depends on the time frame which again we don't know yet. If it comes out like Paris where people were laying on the ground for minutes waiting to be shot then it is much more plausible a gun would help your survival. If this was a very short spray and pray type shooting then it is unlikely a civilian would be able to help with a gun in a crowd.

[The Serbian Empire]

Oh right, I'm sorry. It was the righteous fervor of the fact that he had a weapon that made him go out and shoot 50 homosexuals, not the religion that still preaches 'death to the gays!' and is

Oh right, sorry. I forgot you're English.

You're daft if you don't think owning a high-powered assault rifle hugely facilitated this attack.

It is no more effective than a semi-automatic handgun in an indoors setting. That rifle would have more effectiveness sniping from hundreds of yards out.

Yeah, this was effectively terrorism. I mean, this is the same religious group that decided to chuck gays off of rooftops in the Middle East. So, all things considered, leave guns alone, an inanimate object made from aluminum & plastic didn't do jack. It would've been a bomb if not, well, let the moral authoritarians have their druthers for a short while more; past that, common sense will prevail, and people will have to quit defending that awful fucking religion.

And they're very fond of suicide bombings.

[Trumpostan]

So because a Muslim did it, it therefore has no points of commonality to any mass shooting committed by a non-Muslim, ever.

Uh-huh.

Oh right, I'm sorry. It was the righteous fervor of the fact that he had a weapon that made him go out and shoot 50 homosexuals, not the religion that still preaches 'death to the gays!' and is

Oh right, sorry. I forgot you're English.

A religion that still preaches death to the gays?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressiv ... rve-death/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressiv ... -to-death/

Which one would that be?

[Mega City 5]

Or the fact that this shooter was born in the USA and is a citizen of the USA

The other people in question were crazy, no?

You can't stop crazy.

You can, however, stop brown muslims. By making them leave.

#Trump2016.

[Thermodolia]

No beating up and calling for the death of gays makes Christians evil.

most xtians i know do not do that

I meant to put in those, but typing on the phone is hard.

[Vassenor]

And guess who's started with the self-congratulatory bullcrap?

[Imperializt Russia]

You're daft if you don't think owning a high-powered assault rifle hugely facilitated this attack.

You mean the high powered assault rifle he didn't have? He had an AR style "tactical" sporting rifle. It would have been no different if he had a Mini-14 one of the least criminally used weapons in America.

If it would have made no difference, why do you bring it up?

[Patridam]

You're daft if you don't think owning a high-powered assault rifle hugely facilitated this attack.

1. High powered means nothing here. High power equates to round velocity which has to do with range and armor penetration. Literally any bullet round short of a BB would have been deadly in this indoors/unarmored scenario.
2. Not an assault rifle. The AR-15 is not fully automatic.
3. Both a pistol and a shotgun are both much more effective and practical in this sort of close quarters combat.

So no, his ownership of a gun helped him definitely, but literally any gun save a smooth bore musket or bolt action rifle would have made this play out in a similar way. Even without a gun he could have easily bombed the place and killed all ~450 people inside.

[Church of the Earth Mother]

Ah, yes, giving the government the legal authority to tell people where they have to move is such a great way to deal with your problems, and will only be used against those people.

Actually, wait a minute. It's not even remotely a good idea. What the hell are you thinking?

I've not heard better ones that havn't already been tried and failed.

I'll be eating the popcorn. Best of luck, Ostro.

[Conserative Morality]

You're daft if you don't think owning a high-powered assault rifle hugely facilitated this attack.

I'm pretty sure the 'power' of the weapon was pretty irrelevant. In fact, having a bulky weapon like a rifle probably made this guy much less lethal than he would've been with a couple of handguns.

[Elepis]

then how come it is with Christianity in the 4th century that homosexual became taboo and then outlawed?

Actually, the ancient Greeks themselves were very cruel toward passive partners in gay sex, although it was considered sort of macho to be the more active partner. They didn't actually make any law against it because the social disgrace was the real repercussion associated with it. There were drawbacks to the Christians outlawing the behavior, but an odd benefit was that, if you were a young man, you were a little less likely to be sexually abused for someone else's amusement, which happened all the time in ancient Greece and Rome.

In fact, the closest modern equivalent to how the ancient pagans understood homosexuality is the Bacha Bazi tradition that remains popular in some parts of the Middle East. This is a behavior of established men taking on "dancing boys" who are often sexually abused. It is technically illegal, but the system of law-enforcement in these places is very weak. Gay youth are at higher risk of being sexually abused anywhere but especially in these places.

So really, I would say that the Christians changed how the matter was handled, but their behavior was really not more vicious. It was vicious in a different manner.

In rome, the worst that could happen to a passive partner (if you were of higher status to the penetration) was sniggers and insults. With the advent of Christianity with Theodosius and Justinian the punishment for all "gays" was burning

[Korva]

Oh right, I'm sorry. It was the righteous fervor of the fact that he had a weapon that made him go out and shoot 50 homosexuals, not the religion that still preaches 'death to the gays!' and is

Oh right, sorry. I forgot you're English.

You're daft if you don't think owning a high-powered assault rifle hugely facilitated this attack.

Need those "high powered" rifles to penetrate all the body armor that civilians at night clubs typically wear.

[Thermodolia]

Or the fact that this shooter was born in the USA and is a citizen of the USA

The other people in question were crazy, no?

You can't stop crazy.

You can, however, stop brown muslims. By making them leave.

#Trump2016.

The guy wasn't even brown

[Gauthier]

Oh, and brace for Sikhs and other Indian Americans being murdered by stupid fucks who realize Islam is Not a Race and focus on brown skin and turbans for shits and giggles.

[Xadufell]

A: Bushmaster AR-15s or any civilian AR-15 are not fully automatic, they can't even preform a three round burst, it's only semi or safe.

B: All of these Muslims coming out and saying "Islam is a religion of peace." just makes me more and more skeptical of Islam and less likely to trust what they have to say. As time and time again Islam has shown itself as a very violent religion.

C: Saying that this in no way had anything to do religion is stupid; his son apparently was disgusted at two men kissing which some are saying is the "cause" even if that was the case, it's still most definitely because of Islam's abhorrent hatred of gays and the LGBT community.

I am in no way trying to make light of this tragedy. Unlike some who rudely mock Christians and republicans because of this.

[Mega City 5]

And guess who's started with the self-congratulatory bullcrap?

It's not bullcrap. He's right. And everyone who's not a leftist ideologue is going to recognize it in November.

Face it. The days of liberal hegemony over this country are numbered. We're tired of Islam. We're tired of political correctness. We're tired of illegals. We are just fed up.

And voters are going to make that known in about 6 months.

[Rodrania]

Then explain Holmes, Loughner, Cho, the Columbine killers, or any other mass shooter.

Or the fact that this shooter was born in the USA and is a citizen of the USA

Sadly, this is how ISIS works. They don't "send" terrorists to your country, they radicalise natives.

[The Black Forrest]

And guess who's started with the self-congratulatory bullcrap?

Wow that didn't take long. I thought he was going to wait for a little longer.

[Imperializt Russia]

A: Bushmaster AR-15s or any civilian AR-15 are not fully automatic, they can't even preform a three round burst, it's only semi or safe.

B: All of these Muslims coming out and saying "Islam is a religion of peace." just makes me more and more skeptical of Islam and less likely to trust what they have to say. As time and time again Islam has shown itself as a very violent religion.

C: Saying that this in no way had anything to do religion is stupid; his son apparently was disgusted at two men kissing which some are saying is the "cause" even if that was the case, it's still most definitely because of Islam's abhorrent hatred of gays and the LGBT community.

I am in no way trying to make light of this tragedy. Unlike some who rudely mock Christians and republicans because of this.

Because American Christianity is so progressive in this area.

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Oh right, I'm sorry. It was the righteous fervor of the fact that he had a weapon that made him go out and shoot 50 homosexuals, not the religion that still preaches 'death to the gays!' and is

Oh right, sorry. I forgot you're English.

A religion that still preaches death to the gays?

http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressiv ... rve-death/
http://www.patheos.com/blogs/progressiv ... -to-death/

Which one would that be?

I mean, with the exception of zen oriented far eastern religions ________ still advocates death for the gays is by and large an accurate statement.

You mean the high powered assault rifle he didn't have? He had an AR style "tactical" sporting rifle. It would have been no different if he had a Mini-14 one of the least criminally used weapons in America.

If it would have made no difference, why do you bring it up?

Oh darling, I swear at this point you're not even following the line of discussion.

[The Black Forrest]

You're daft if you don't think owning a high-powered assault rifle hugely facilitated this attack.

I'm pretty sure the 'power' of the weapon was pretty irrelevant. In fact, having a bulky weapon like a rifle probably made this guy much less lethal than he would've been with a couple of handguns.

Indeed. He probably thought he needed it for the police.....

[Cerillium]

And guess who's started with the self-congratulatory bullcrap?

It was only a matter of time.

[The Serbian Empire]

So because a Muslim did it, it therefore has no points of commonality to any mass shooting committed by a non-Muslim, ever.

And guess who's started with the self-congratulatory bullcrap?

Ughhh... It's that GOP candidate that I don't dare say his name.