Gay Nightclub Attacked in Orlando, FL

[Imperializt Russia]

I wish to note the following:

The killer was a brown person.
The killer was a Muslim.

Liberals will continually complain about guns, but the problem's not guns. A gun didn't murder people at a night club. A brown muslim did.

Then explain Holmes, Loughner, Cho, the Columbine killers, or any other mass shooter.

[The Black Forrest]

usa getting fed up of the left's senseless defence of radical islamic terrorism- don't be surprised come November to see:

President Trump.

.5/10

Put some effort into it.

[The Joseon Dynasty]

So because a Muslim did it, it therefore has no points of commonality to any mass shooting committed by a non-Muslim, ever.

Uh-huh.

Oh right, I'm sorry. It was the righteous fervor of the fact that he had a weapon that made him go out and shoot 50 homosexuals, not the religion that still preaches 'death to the gays!' and is

Oh right, sorry. I forgot you're English.

You're daft if you don't think owning a high-powered assault rifle hugely facilitated this attack.

[The Serbian Empire]

You'd be surprised. If it's not full automatic, it's easy to get one of that model. The thing is they won't be cheap.

If it's fully automatic, its IMPOSSIBLE to get (legally).

But in this context - indoors - the "assault weapon" AR-15 isn't any more effective than a handgun. So it shouldn't matter that the damn things looks scary.

I'm quite certain that the AR-15 itself, not counting derivatives and clones, is the most popular single semi-automatic rifle in the US. The US market for AK and derived rifles is enough to keep Izhmash afloat.

Okay? The semiautomatic rifle market still isn't the hugest market out there....

Indeed, the handgun or even a shotgun with birdshot would be more effective.

[Gauthier]

I wish to note the following:

The killer was a brown person.
The killer was a Muslim.

Liberals will continually complain about guns, but the problem's not guns. A gun didn't murder people at a night club. A brown muslim did.

The solution to me seems obvious. I'm with Trump:

1. Build the wall.
2. End birthright citizenship.
3. Put a stop to Muslim immigration.
4. Deport the illegals.

If we were to made America white again already, this would not have happened.

Just remember:

"We ought to send 'em all back to Africa. We ought to send 'em all back to Africa."

That won't work as the shooter was born in New York City. He was not an illegal immigrant!

Someone will propose Muslim faith as sufficient grounds for deportation regardless of citizenship, just wait.

[Patridam]

Speculation at best.

If a guy with training failed to stop him why would some yahoo in a mass panic situation be able to do better?

Where are you getting that a guy with training failed to stop him? Are we talking about a guard or something?

[Gauthier]

I wish to note the following:

The killer was a brown person.
The killer was a Muslim.

Liberals will continually complain about guns, but the problem's not guns. A gun didn't murder people at a night club. A brown muslim did.

Then explain Holmes, Loughner, Cho, the Columbine killers, or any other mass shooter.

They were all secret Muslims. *nod*

[Alvecia]

Does this mean we can start the pool on the next mass shooting?

[Eisarn-Ara]

Yeah, this was effectively terrorism. I mean, this is the same religious group that decided to chuck gays off of rooftops in the Middle East. So, all things considered, leave guns alone, an inanimate object made from aluminum & plastic didn't do jack. It would've been a bomb if not, well, let the moral authoritarians have their druthers for a short while more; past that, common sense will prevail, and people will have to quit defending that awful fucking religion.

[Jumalariik]

Yeah. Killing 50 people = supporting a law.

Why do you hate Christians and love Islam? I'm serious. You seem to think that Islam is great and that Christians are awful. I think you wish a Christian had done this so you could blame it on Christianity, so instead you need to say how bad Christianity is for whatever other reason you can think of.

Gauth logic:
50 people killed for being gay by a Muslim
Christianity is evil too because
Because
Because
Some Christians supported a bill to ban gay marriage
Banning gay marriage=killing gays

Or pointing out it's disingenuous and hypocritical to express pity and defend a group you think of as shit just because someone from another group you think of as shit brutalized them.

Yep. You know nothing about what you are talking about. The vast majority of Christians don't think of gays "as shit". No major Christian denomination claims gay people are inferior, just that they are committing a sin. I guess expecting you at this point to know something about something that's not the "Holy Koran" would be thinking too highly.

[Senkaku]

Was all of this just crap, or is it more fun to insult one another and wildly point fingers?

Just curious if it was something I said, or didn't say.Hard to tell sometimes, especially when it appears points get ignored. If there's nothing for me to discuss, fair 'nuff.

DLN, if you thought you'd be able to explain to some people on this forum that Muslims are, in fact, humans like the rest of us rather than a collective of murderous automatons programmed to destroy the West, I have some unfortunate news for you.

Fuck no.

Do what the Finns have been doing.

Fucking educate new immigrants and accept them as part of society rather than isolating them into self-contained enclaves which encourage an echo chamber of thought from The Old Country.

I'm in favor, sure. But that doesn't deal with the enclaves, does it. They need to be broken up, forcibly. They won't dissolve on their own.
And i'm not in favor of any new muslim arrivals until the current ones are dealt with and integrated so we at least have a proof of concept.

The problem is that any action taken to assimilate the current Islamic community will inevitably be perceived as hostile to them.
Because it is. It would be us rocking up and saying "You are no longer allowed to do things your way, and we're here to force you to stop."

Or, instead of some good-old Stalin-style resettlement, we could, like, enact policies that encourage integration of recent immigrants with the main fabric of society.

Alternatively, why just limit it to Muslims? If we want to truly eliminate racism and discrimination and violence, mix everyone in the U.S. along racial and religious lines until we're one big homogenous solution. We can build artificial cities everywhere, it'll be great. Almost as practical as it would be humane. *nods*

[Christiaanistan]

If anything, Christianity is the most rainbow-covered religion on the planet.

Now, that is assuming you don't count secular humanists. We're a special case. That actually goes back to some really early philosophers. We're not regarded as a religious group, but that also sort of goes back to some really early philosophers. We're kind of a special case.

Christianity, though, is amazingly gay as a religion. Their messiah is portrayed as an asexual, effeminate man who loved little fluffy animals and had platonic friendships with women. St. Matthew was a flaming naturist who loved rainbows and flowers. Moreover, every country that embraces gay marriage is either majority Christian or historically dominated by the Christian religion, including the United Kingdom.

Eh, Christianity took a while to catch up with the secular humanists, but I won't judge them. They're not bad people. They're just slow.

then how come it is with Christianity in the 4th century that homosexual became taboo and then outlawed?

Actually, the ancient Greeks themselves were very cruel toward passive partners in gay sex, although it was considered sort of macho to be the more active partner. They didn't actually make any law against it because the social disgrace was the real repercussion associated with it. There were drawbacks to the Christians outlawing the behavior, but an odd benefit was that, if you were a young man, you were a little less likely to be sexually abused for someone else's amusement, which happened all the time in ancient Greece and Rome.

In fact, the closest modern equivalent to how the ancient pagans understood homosexuality is the Bacha Bazi tradition that remains popular in some parts of the Middle East. This is a behavior of established men taking on "dancing boys" who are often sexually abused. It is technically illegal, but the system of law-enforcement in these places is very weak. Gay youth are at higher risk of being sexually abused anywhere but especially in these places.

So really, I would say that the Christians changed how the matter was handled, but their behavior was really not more vicious. It was vicious in a different manner.

[Cerillium]

usa getting fed up of the left's senseless defence of radical islamic terrorism- don't be surprised come November to see:

President Trump.

I don't see anyone defending "radical Islamic terrorism". Instead, I see people pointing out that not all Muslims are terrorists or radicals.

[Elepis]

then how come it is with Christianity in the 4th century that homosexual became taboo and then outlawed?

I am curious: when "Christians" outlawed homosexuality originally, did they tend to mass-murder the non-complaints or did they just throw them in prison?

Execution, prisons didn't really exist.

[Mega City 5]

Someone will propose Muslim faith as sufficient grounds for deportation regardless of citizenship, just wait.

That is precisely what I think.

You'll ridicule it as contrary to the 1st amendment. I'll point out that Islam is inherently dangerous, as historically proven time and time again (back to its very origin), and that they ain't got no damn place in a free, civilized world.

Back to Africa, I say.

[Imperializt Russia]

Speculation at best.

If a guy with training failed to stop him why would some yahoo in a mass panic situation be able to do better?

Where are you getting that a guy with training failed to stop him? Are we talking about a guard or something?

The armed police officer at the club who opened fire and was wounded.

[Conserative Morality]

The problem is they don't want to merge culturally. That's the issue. They reject Western culture and embrace their own. They come directly from the most culturally ass-backwards place in the world and then bring those ass-backwards cultural and religious beliefs with them.

Right, American success in integrating Muslims into American society is just a fluke.

[Shaggai]

How can they link that up so quickly? I think they deserve a pay raise if this info is correct.


The problem is how do you let them integrate when many of them have no desire to do so?

Break up the enclaves with a few laws. If necessary, by force if they wont obey those laws. Move muslims around the country and regulate where they can stay.
Try and isolate them so there's no Islamic community and deal with them as atomized individuals.

They can either be a basement dweller, or join the majority culture. Don't leave them the option of forming their own groups. Try and achieve minimum islamic density, so muslims are as far away from eachother as possible.

It's authoritarian, but its the only way I can see it working.

Ah, yes, giving the government the legal authority to tell people where they have to move is such a great way to deal with your problems, and will only be used against those people.

Actually, wait a minute. It's not even remotely a good idea. What the hell are you thinking?

[Jumalariik]

Yeah. Killing 50 people = supporting a law.

Why do you hate Christians and love Islam? I'm serious. You seem to think that Islam is great and that Christians are awful. I think you wish a Christian had done this so you could blame it on Christianity, so instead you need to say how bad Christianity is for whatever other reason you can think of.

Gauth logic:
50 people killed for being gay by a Muslim
Christianity is evil too because
Because
Because
Some Christians supported a bill to ban gay marriage
Banning gay marriage=killing gays

No beating up and calling for the death of gays makes Christians evil.

Ok. I'm evil. I was suspecting that I was evil when I woke up this morning, and clearly the isolated acts that are not condoned by anybody of authority within my religion are why I felt that way.

Real intellectualism in this thread. Thumbs up.

[Ethel mermania]

Yeah. Killing 50 people = supporting a law.

Why do you hate Christians and love Islam? I'm serious. You seem to think that Islam is great and that Christians are awful. I think you wish a Christian had done this so you could blame it on Christianity, so instead you need to say how bad Christianity is for whatever other reason you can think of.

Gauth logic:
50 people killed for being gay by a Muslim
Christianity is evil too because
Because
Because
Some Christians supported a bill to ban gay marriage
Banning gay marriage=killing gays

No beating up and calling for the death of gays makes Christians evil.

most xtians i know do not do that

[The Black Forrest]

I wish to note the following:

The killer was a brown person.
The killer was a Muslim.

Liberals will continually complain about guns, but the problem's not guns. A gun didn't murder people at a night club. A brown muslim did.

The solution to me seems obvious. I'm with Trump:

1. Build the wall.
2. End birthright citizenship.
3. Put a stop to Muslim immigration.
4. Deport the illegals.

If we were to made America white again already, this would not have happened.

Just remember:

"We ought to send 'em all back to Africa. We ought to send 'em all back to Africa."

That won't work as the shooter was born in New York City. He was not an illegal immigrant!

Oh you...enough with the details.

[Thermodolia]

I wish to note the following:

The killer was a brown person.
The killer was a Muslim.

Liberals will continually complain about guns, but the problem's not guns. A gun didn't murder people at a night club. A brown muslim did.

Then explain Holmes, Loughner, Cho, the Columbine killers, or any other mass shooter.

Or the fact that this shooter was born in the USA and is a citizen of the USA

[Church of the Earth Mother]

That won't work as the shooter was born in New York City. He was not an illegal immigrant!

Someone will propose Muslim faith as sufficient grounds for deportation regardless of citizenship, just wait.

Ah, typical stupid bullshit.
Fuck 'em all.

[Imperializt Russia]

Yeah, this was effectively terrorism. I mean, this is the same religious group that decided to chuck gays off of rooftops in the Middle East. So, all things considered, leave guns alone, an inanimate object made from aluminum & plastic didn't do jack. It would've been a bomb if not, well, let the moral authoritarians have their druthers for a short while more; past that, common sense will prevail, and people will have to quit defending that awful fucking religion.

If it "would've been a bomb", why didn't he use a bomb?
Why go for a gun massacre in the first place?

[Nirvash Type TheEND]

Oh right, I'm sorry. It was the righteous fervor of the fact that he had a weapon that made him go out and shoot 50 homosexuals, not the religion that still preaches 'death to the gays!' and is

Oh right, sorry. I forgot you're English.

You're daft if you don't think owning a high-powered assault rifle hugely facilitated this attack.

You mean the high powered assault rifle he didn't have? He had an AR style "tactical" sporting rifle. It would have been no different if he had a Mini-14 one of the least criminally used weapons in America.