Presumtion of 'Heaven'

[Freefall11111]

Do you have any a priori reason for thinking this?

What's the alternative, exactly? If our satisfaction is not derived from the fact that we are animals, where else is it derived from? Are we plants? Inanimate objects?

By "animal" I meant "merely animal." Humans and pigs differ in a very significant way.

Yes. But we're both animals.

[Dushan]

I got slightly distracted by trying to get past level 13!

And I am inclined to agree. I personally believe organized religion is the worst cancer in society that man has ever created. So im going to all kinds of hells and purgatories. I was just curious since to me it just doesnt make sense. As stated my idea of a good life is far apart from regular religious theories.

Some things need their Time to arrive or appear, I personally don't think theres much wrong with your idea of a good life.

Though it can't harm to ask yourself in detail what specifically like on the things you mentioned and why they are satisfying to you. It could, very well, be that the "christian" Heaven would not a desintation where you belong to. ; )

One thing I can tell you that once you'd get on a higher Level (sic!) problems and other stuff that were a thing on lower Levels suddenly stop being relevant. What is affected I cannot say but that they just dissolve themself, and you'd see what lies behind them.

I am wondering did any of the People in this Thread had any own religious/spritual/mystic experiences?

I dreamed of heaven twice but IDK if that counts.

It's a start. Depends on the kind of Dream and so on.

[Mega City 5]

What's the alternative, exactly? If our satisfaction is not derived from the fact that we are animals, where else is it derived from? Are we plants? Inanimate objects?

Human beings are:

Substances
Bodily substances
Living bodily substances (which we share in common with plants)
Sensate living bodily substances (which we share in common with brute animals)
Rational sensate living bodily substances.

In the words of Jacques Maritain, human beings are intellectual universes of knowledge and love, with an infinite aspiration and longing for truth, being and goodness.

[Freefall11111]

What's the alternative, exactly? If our satisfaction is not derived from the fact that we are animals, where else is it derived from? Are we plants? Inanimate objects?

Human beings are:

Substances
Bodily substances
Living bodily substances (which we share in common with plants)
Sensate living bodily substances (which we share in common with brute animals)
Rational living bodily substances.

In the words of Jacques Maritain, human beings are intellectual universes of knowledge and love, with an infinite aspiration and longing for truth, being and goodness.

Other animals are not rational?

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

I got slightly distracted by trying to get past level 13!

And I am inclined to agree. I personally believe organized religion is the worst cancer in society that man has ever created. So im going to all kinds of hells and purgatories. I was just curious since to me it just doesnt make sense. As stated my idea of a good life is far apart from regular religious theories.

Some things need their Time to arrive or appear, I personally don't think theres much wrong with your idea of a good life.

Though it can't harm to ask yourself in detail what specifically like on the things you mentioned and why they are satisfying to you. It could, very well, be that the "christian" Heaven would not a desintation where you belong to. ; )

One thing I can tell you that once you'd get on a higher Level (sic!) problems and other stuff that were a thing on lower Levels suddenly stop being relevant. What is affected I cannot say but that they just dissolve themself, and you'd see what lies behind them.

I dreamed of heaven twice but IDK if that counts.

It's a start. Depends on the kind of Dream and so on.

In the first dream upon waking up my friend told me he tried waking me up for several minuets in several ways but I wouldn't wake up so I was surprised when he informed me and I remember the dream very well, the other dream was very recent in the dream I was facing death but I entered almost another world after the in dream near death experience.

[Mega City 5]

Other animals are not rational?

None, if by the word "reason," we understand the Latin "ratio" or the Greek "logos."

The hallmark of human knowing is to know things in their causes, to ask the question "why?"

No other animal cares about whys.

Knowing the why gives us intellectual satisfaction.

And God is the Supreme Why.

[Freefall11111]

Other animals are not rational?

None, if by the word "reason," we understand the Latin "ratio" or the Greek "logos."

The hallmark of human knowing is to know things in their causes, to ask the question "why?"

No other animal cares about whys.

How do you know, exactly? Have you ever communicated with another species?

[Godular]

Because his statements weren't clear enough? Anyway, just knowing he rejects any kind of theism only tells you what positions he isn't coming from, not which ones he is.

I wasn't sure if he was like a spiritualist or something.

If you must know, my idea was that all of reality was made up of one photon going back and forth through time (forward as normal energy, backward as gravitational energy), interacting with itself in countless different ways. It worked with a great many physical principles that I understood at the time and even explained what might cause gravity. It also had a great variety of connotations for what might constitute 'the afterlife' in that it means that at some point in time I will be you, you will be me, and we'll be everybody else countless times over.

But then I was advised of evidence that contradicted my idea, evaluated said evidence and discerned that my idea was incorrect, and I was like 'Well... darn. I REALLY liked that idea... oh well time for a pop tart.'

[The Isles of Lux]

Other animals are not rational?

None, if by the word "reason," we understand the Latin "ratio" or the Greek "logos."

The hallmark of human knowing is to know things in their causes, to ask the question "why?"

No other animal cares about whys.

Even if this is true, it doesn't add evidence to the statement that there is life after death. In fact, it only serves as a further explanation as to why humans would create such a fictitious idea.

[Mega City 5]

How do you know, exactly? Have you ever communicated with another species?

Well, given the fact that my dog doesn't know how to use a calculator, I've never seen a bird looking up a recipe for cookies, and I'm perfectly ignorant of any chimpanzees or dolphins writing articles for science journals...

[Freefall11111]

How do you know, exactly? Have you ever communicated with another species?

Well, given the fact that my dog doesn't know how to use a calculator, I've never seen a bird looking up a recipe for cookies, and I'm perfectly ignorant of any chimpanzees or dolphins writing articles for science journals...

Other animals being incapable of using our tools or our language does not mean they do not think about the same things we do.

[Killdash]

I find the way of nothing after death to be strangely peaceful. As well as driving me forward, it soothes me, actually.

[Jumalariik]

I never really got the idea of heaven and hell. If hell exists than there is no way I could be happy in heaven, knowing there are people in hell. So either I am unhappy and heaven is not heaven, or "I" am happy, meaning I am no longer the person I was when I was alive. As for heaven being the perfect place for all, no idea, seems to me there are so many different types of people that it would be impossible for heaven to be a heaven for all.

Well, God is all good and all loving. Those in hell are in hell because of their own fault. We must pray for them, but to see people in hell is to see God's judgement. It must bring us fear, but also sympathy for those in hell. We must not be sadists, but we must think that justice cannot come from us, but from God.

[Godular]

How do you know, exactly? Have you ever communicated with another species?

Well, given the fact that my dog doesn't know how to use a calculator, I've never seen a bird looking up a recipe for cookies, and I'm perfectly ignorant of any chimpanzees or dolphins writing articles for science journals...

Crows make tools. Elephants mourn. Apes learn sign language.

[Freefall11111]

I find the way of nothing after death to be strangely peaceful. As well as driving me forward, it soothes me, actually.

I wish I shared your opinion on this matter. I personally find the very notion that I will die beyond frightening and I will try my hardest to extend my life as long as possible.

[Aekra]

Wiccan here.

I already somewhat have the idea everyone's afterlife is unique to them... But they can visit friends and family in their afterlives if they want.

That's my personal belief, anyway.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

I wasn't sure if he was like a spiritualist or something.

If you must know, my idea was that all of reality was made up of one photon going back and forth through time (forward as normal energy, backward as gravitational energy), interacting with itself in countless different ways. It worked with a great many physical principles that I understood at the time and even explained what might cause gravity. It also had a great variety of connotations for what might constitute 'the afterlife' in that it means that at some point in time I will be you, you will be me, and we'll be everybody else countless times over.

But then I was advised of evidence that contradicted my idea, evaluated said evidence and discerned that my idea was incorrect, and I was like 'Well... darn. I REALLY liked that idea... oh well time for a pop tart.'

Okay? I believe in Allah as the creator of everything, in this universe and all things we perceive in this physical world.

[Mega City 5]

Even if this is true, it doesn't add evidence to the statement that there is life after death. In fact, it only serves as a further explanation as to why humans would create such a fictitious idea.

It does not add such evidence. It does, however, show that there is something distinctively human over and above what other animals are capable of, that there are pleasures which are properly human, different and distinct from those of other animals.

The best that a pig can do is sensible pleasure.

Man, however, can contemplate the whys.

Man has a higher calling to a higher way of life which other animals aren't.

[Godular]

Even if this is true, it doesn't add evidence to the statement that there is life after death. In fact, it only serves as a further explanation as to why humans would create such a fictitious idea.

It does not add such evidence. It does, however, show that there is something distinctively human over and above what other animals are capable of, that there are pleasures which are properly human, different and distinct from those of other animals.

The best that a pig can do is sensible pleasure.

Man, however, can contemplate the whys.

Man has a higher calling to a higher way of life which other animals aren't.

The why of what, pray tell?

[Jumalariik]

Wiccan here.

I already somewhat have the idea everyone's afterlife is unique to them... But they can visit friends and family in their afterlives if they want.

That's my personal belief, anyway.

Based off of what?

[The Isles of Lux]

Wiccan here.

I already somewhat have the idea everyone's afterlife is unique to them... But they can visit friends and family in their afterlives if they want.

That's my personal belief, anyway.

I find that part of myself wishes that I could still fool myself into thinking that reality could be this... comforting.

[Dushan]

That is your opinion. Here comes the issue I was speaking of. Our ideas of Heaven would be very different. Your willingness to submit your entire existence to an almighty god to me goes contrary to the way I feel about these things.

Except, not really. You have an idea of "happiness" which bases itself entirely on purely animal satisfaction. It's literally a "happiness" fit for pigs (I am inclined to think the same about the popular muslim conception of "heaven").

Insofar as human beings are more than pigs, your idea of happiness is not an idea of happiness which is properly human.

Note, this has nothing to do with religion. See Aristotle, Nicomachean Ethics.

Thats some good point. There are some different definitions of Happyness. I think what we would need as minimum is a definition of Happyness. I'd agree with you (and aristotle) that true Happyness is more than short lived fun.

I'd usually go by a three stage model Fun>Happyness>Joy. Very simplified. Fun is the most superficial one, Joy the most deepest ones. (I could now add bliss and so on but that would be more ecstatic categories)

(I must admit at this point that its been a long time since i've got in touch with Aristotles and his Eudamonia :V )

In the first dream upon waking up my friend told me he tried waking me up for several minuets in several ways but I wouldn't wake up so I was surprised when he informed me and I remember the dream very well, the other dream was very recent in the dream I was facing death but I entered almost another world after the in dream near death experience.

There are a few tricks how you can remember forgotten Dreams and the likes. It's actually surprisingly simple. You mentioned also another World, what was it like?

[Godular]

If you must know, my idea was that all of reality was made up of one photon going back and forth through time (forward as normal energy, backward as gravitational energy), interacting with itself in countless different ways. It worked with a great many physical principles that I understood at the time and even explained what might cause gravity. It also had a great variety of connotations for what might constitute 'the afterlife' in that it means that at some point in time I will be you, you will be me, and we'll be everybody else countless times over.

But then I was advised of evidence that contradicted my idea, evaluated said evidence and discerned that my idea was incorrect, and I was like 'Well... darn. I REALLY liked that idea... oh well time for a pop tart.'

Okay? I believe in Allah as the creator of everything, in this universe and all things we perceive in this physical world.

That's just what you believe. It is only a fact insofar as you state what your opinion is, not what actually is. Do keep this in mind.

[Anywhere Else But Here]

I am wondering did any of the People in this Thread had any own religious/spritual/mystic experiences?

I dreamed of heaven twice but IDK if that counts.

If dreaming of something is the same as experiencing it then I feel the need to boast that I had a five way just last night.

[Killdash]

I find the way of nothing after death to be strangely peaceful. As well as driving me forward, it soothes me, actually.

I wish I shared your opinion on this matter. I personally find the very notion that I will die beyond frightening and I will try my hardest to extend my life as long as possible.

Oh it scares me alright. My life's ambition is study the science of life extension. That's why I want to study Bio Medical Engineering. But I'm more afraid of being forgotten than actually dieing.