Presumtion of 'Heaven'

[Shakal]

While listening to music a few hours ago and playing Tetris I thought of something.

Why, at least in the Christain faith, is it presumed 'Paradise' or 'Heaven' is the same place for everyone. Let me explain, for instance why is it that Heaven/Paradise is assumed to be this peaceful perfect place. Now of course I understand the reasoning behind it by I mean literally. Why is it that everyone assumes heaven is a place free of hate and war and all these things, which of course it should be.

But what if to someone else that would be hell? I will use myself as an example, for me going to heaven and seeing dead relatives and living in peace and harmony forever would be horrible since I am assuming that means no fornication, drugs, alcohol or what have you since these things are typically things used to point you to hell.

And what if I met a fellow angel and felt like doing the do and the next day I see a different one? Is this suddenly not allowed even though we were both apparently good people and got into heaven?

For me heaven would be relaxing in a lake with some music going getting shit faced drunk everyday being able to rest and relax and bury my face into whatever narcotic I felt like or whatever woman I felt like. Obviously wanting these things may preclude me from the entrance into the imaginary sky land in the first place...

What I am asking is that why is Heaven/Paradise always considered the same for everyone with the typical 'No sex' no this no that rhetoric?

[Neutraligon]

I never really got the idea of heaven and hell. If hell exists than there is no way I could be happy in heaven, knowing there are people in hell. So either I am unhappy and heaven is not heaven, or "I" am happy, meaning I am no longer the person I was when I was alive. As for heaven being the perfect place for all, no idea, seems to me there are so many different types of people that it would be impossible for heaven to be a heaven for all.

[Ashmoria]

I believe the notion is that once you are dead and in heaven you have a whole different attitude toward "life" than what you had, thought you wanted, strove for in this life.

[Ashmoria]

I never really got the idea of heaven and hell. If hell exists than there is no way I could be happy in heaven, knowing there are people in hell. So either I am unhappy and heaven is not heaven, or "I" am happy, meaning I am no longer the person I was when I was alive. As for heaven being the perfect place for all, no idea, seems to me there are so many different types of people that it would be impossible for heaven to be a heaven for all.

as I recall st Thomas Aquinas thought that one of the fun parts of being in heaven was that you could get to laugh at the poor buggers in hell.

I don't know if that means he felt he came from a very righteous family or a very bad one.

[Vintony]

Eh, well, I guess it depends on how you interpret the bible. If you follow literal interpretations with the stereotypical "peaceful cloud" setting, then all the things that make mortal life fun would be banned. Of course, you'd be liberated from those same sinful impulses so I suppose you wouldn't really want to drink or do it. You might not even remember what it was like (depends on whether or not reaching heaven reverses the curse of knowledge).

But, of course, there are other interpretations. Heaven might be different for everyone according to their preference of paradise. Again, it depends on how you interpret the bible. The "White, cloudy, peaceful place" might just be the universal symbol we've used to describe heaven for simplicity's sake.

[Godular]

I wonder if teachers would qualify to get into valhalla...

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

As a Muslim we believe you can have sex in heaven wit your wife/wives. You can also eat whatever food you like and wear the finest clothing there are huge palaces etc.

[Godular]

As a Muslim we believe you can have sex in heaven wit your wife/wives. You can also eat whatever food you like and wear the finest clothing there are huge palaces etc.

And what is Muslim heaven for women, I wonder?

[Shakal]

I wonder if teachers would qualify to get into valhalla...

.... If I got to go to Valhalla and drink with a bunch of warriors after dying valiantly in battle I would be on joining the military faster than you could say "BRING THE MEAD"

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

As a Muslim we believe you can have sex in heaven wit your wife/wives. You can also eat whatever food you like and wear the finest clothing there are huge palaces etc.

And what is Muslim heaven for women, I wonder?

They get to remain with their husbands and it's the same thing and extra benefits execpt they don't get hour al ayn or multiple men but all married couples are reunited in heaven. And only martyrs get the hour al-ayn (72 virgins) not every Muslim man is a martyr so not every man gets them but they of course get their loved ones and families etc.

[Mega City 5]

Why, at least in the Christain faith, is it presumed 'Paradise' or 'Heaven' is the same place for everyone.

Heaven is simply the face to face vision of God, the Infinite Supreme Good and fount of all goods, of whom all finite and created goods are mere shadows and imperfect likenesses, as He is.

"Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God" (Mathew 5:8).

"Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. We know, that, when he shall appear, we shall be like to him: because we shall see him as he is" (1 John 3:2).

The Christian faith is fundamentally erotic (in the sense of a love which longs for union with the object of desire). For the Christian, God is the highest object of desire, and if we could only be united with him, we would be perfectly happy. Why? Because He is Goodness Itself.

It is in this way that you should understand the parable of the workers in the vineyard in Matthew 20. Why did each get only a denarius? Because the denarius represents God Himself and union with him in beatific glory. And beyond Himself, there is nothing more that He has to give. For what else could there be which could be desired in addition?

This is a great mystery of the Christian Faith: Jesus, the God-man, died on the cross, and rising from the dead, He sent the Holy Ghost, Divine Love Itself, into the world that sins might be forgiven and that Christians might be affectively united with Himself in perfect divine love.

"And because you are sons, God hath sent the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying: Abba, Father" (Galatians 4:6).

Hell is the opposite. To be damned means to be forever separated from union with God. It means being tormented perpetually by the knowledge that being with God forever would have made you perfectly happy...but you'll never be happy, because of your sins, because you chose yourself over God.

"Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41).

[Godular]

And what is Muslim heaven for women, I wonder?

They get to remain with their husbands and it's the same thing and extra benefits execpt they don't get hour al ayn or multiple men but all married couples are reunited in heaven. And only martyrs get the hour al-ayn (72 virgins) not every Muslim man is a martyr so not every man gets them but they of course get their loved ones and families etc.

But what if they don't WANT to remain with their husband/family? What about female martyrs? Why do men get multiple wives but women don't get the converse?

[Jochizyd Republic]

In the Holy Qur'an it's described as a celestial place wherein flow rivers and lush greenery and your every need is taken care of by houris or youths.

But Sufis often believe that paradise is not enough. and is only the start of another journey towards the beloved, God. Staying in paradise is for the weak. So, I believe it's only the start to something greater. But a great place.

I suppose Paradise isn't the same in the eyes of everyone. I always imagined it as an exotic, surreal kind of wilderness to wander through. Although describing it in physical terms might not be the right way to do it.

[Godular]

Why, at least in the Christain faith, is it presumed 'Paradise' or 'Heaven' is the same place for everyone.

Heaven is simply the face to face vision of God, the Infinite Supreme Good and fount of all goods, of whom all finite and created goods are mere shadows and imperfect likenesses, as He is.

"Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God" (Mathew 5:8).

"Dearly beloved, we are now the sons of God; and it hath not yet appeared what we shall be. We know, that, when he shall appear, we shall be like to him: because we shall see him as he is" (1 John 3:2).

The Christian faith is fundamentally erotic (in the sense of a love which longs for union with the object of desire). For the Christian, God is the highest object of desire, and if we could only be united with him, we would be perfectly happy. Why? Because He is Goodness Itself.

It is in this way that you should understand the parable of the workers in the vineyard in Matthew 20. Why did each get only a denarius? Because the denarius represents God Himself and union with him in beatific glory. And beyond Himself, there is nothing more that He has to give. For what else could there be which could be desired in addition?

Hell is the opposite. To be damned means to be forever separated from union with God. It means being tormented perpetually by the knowledge that being with God forever would have made you perfectly happy...but you'll never be happy, because of your sins, because you chose yourself over God.

"Then he shall say to them also that shall be on his left hand: Depart from me, you cursed, into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matthew 25:41).

So... Heaven is where God's fan club meets?

[Jochizyd Republic]

They get to remain with their husbands and it's the same thing and extra benefits execpt they don't get hour al ayn or multiple men but all married couples are reunited in heaven. And only martyrs get the hour al-ayn (72 virgins) not every Muslim man is a martyr so not every man gets them but they of course get their loved ones and families etc.

But what if they don't WANT to remain with their husband/family? What about female martyrs? Why do men get multiple wives but women don't get the converse?

They do actually. They remain with their families and are served by heavenly servants same as men. I don't think the servants are for sex, as some crudely put it.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

They get to remain with their husbands and it's the same thing and extra benefits execpt they don't get hour al ayn or multiple men but all married couples are reunited in heaven. And only martyrs get the hour al-ayn (72 virgins) not every Muslim man is a martyr so not every man gets them but they of course get their loved ones and families etc.

But what if they don't WANT to remain with their husband/family? What about female martyrs? Why do men get multiple wives but women don't get the converse?

Because we Muslims believe men and women are created differently and this is what men desire and women desire other things. If you don't want to be reunited with them that's something you have to talk to Allah about in heaven but in Islam couples love each other very much and love and bonding is highly encouraged like in Christianity and Judaism and if you really don't want to be with your spouse forever then you should have gotten a divorce. But Allah will please everyone in heaven with every feeling and every desire. Everyone in Jannah will be happy sorrow doesn't exist in heaven.

[Dushan]

-snip-

Heaven and Hell lie sometimes very close to each other and you'd be surprised where to find them. But that usually takes a good deal of expierience, not only to seek, find but also to know. And thats just in this realm...

[Zoice]

Heaven makes very little sense, because it was just made up to make people feel better.

[Mega City 5]

What I am asking is that why is Heaven/Paradise always considered the same for everyone with the typical 'No sex' no this no that rhetoric?

In the Christian view, you wouldn't want those things.

The reason you want food and drink is for the preservation of your body and corporeal life, to nourish yourself and prevent yourself from perishing.

But what fear would you have of perishing when you are united with a God who is Eternal Life Itself?

You want sex because you have a primordial drive to reproduce, in order that the human species might not die when you do. It springs indirectly from a desire for immortality, that you might live on, in some way, through your children.

God is the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. He is the creator and ultimate object of longing for all created things.

What fear could you have of dying or being forgotten when you will be alive forever in His eyes and with Him?

Everything you love, want and think is good here, this side of eternity, is already there in God, in a super-eminent and transcendent way. Wanting sex There would be like being at the home of your grandmother, but preferring instead to look at photographs of her, instead of talking to your actual grandmother.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

Heaven makes very little sense, because it was just made up to make people feel better.

No it wasn't 'made up'

[Godular]

But what if they don't WANT to remain with their husband/family? What about female martyrs? Why do men get multiple wives but women don't get the converse?

Because we Muslims believe men and women are created differently and this is what men desire and women desire other things.

See... I never liked that. But myeh, not the topic.

If you don't want to be reunited with them that's something you have to talk to Allah about in heaven but in Islam couples love each other very much and love and bonding is highly encouraged like in Christianity and Judaism and if you really don't want to be with your spouse forever then you should have gotten a divorce. But Allah will please everyone in heaven with every feeling and every desire. Everyone in Jannah will be happy sorrow doesn't exist in heaven.

Can women even get a divorce in Islamic countries?

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

Because we Muslims believe men and women are created differently and this is what men desire and women desire other things.

See... I never liked that. But myeh, not the topic.

If you don't want to be reunited with them that's something you have to talk to Allah about in heaven but in Islam couples love each other very much and love and bonding is highly encouraged like in Christianity and Judaism and if you really don't want to be with your spouse forever then you should have gotten a divorce. But Allah will please everyone in heaven with every feeling and every desire. Everyone in Jannah will be happy sorrow doesn't exist in heaven.

Can women even get a divorce in Islamic countries?

Yes

[Godular]

Heaven makes very little sense, because it was just made up to make people feel better.

No it wasn't 'made up'

Ohkewl! Can you provide support for the assertion of its existence with independently verifiable evidence?

You might make the news.

[Ghuraba Al-Khorusani]

No it wasn't 'made up'

Ohkewl! Can you provide support for the assertion of its existence with independently verifiable evidence?

You might make the news.

No I can't no one can.

[Godular]

See... I never liked that. But myeh, not the topic.



Can women even get a divorce in Islamic countries?

Yes

Looks like it is a lot harder for the wife to do it than the husband tho.