Adoption as an alternative to breeding

[Italios]

Well, start with adopting the orphans, and if it catches on, we'll see how it goes from there.

If third world people see how much better off they are in the first world, they might hand them over willingly.

Suuuuuure, just like I'd hand over my flesh and blood to a stranger thousands of miles away and a different culture and rel-- fuck no, I wouldn't.

Really, an idiotic idea.

But as he said, we'd begin with orphans. Which means you would be dead.

[Socialist Tera]

I don't want kids so the choice is easy for me.

[Esternial]

Suuuuuure, just like I'd hand over my flesh and blood to a stranger thousands of miles away and a different culture and rel-- fuck no, I wouldn't.

Really, an idiotic idea.

But as he said, we'd begin with orphans. Which means you would be dead.

Guess that can only mean she's a zombie.

[Ndaku]

I find it a good idea, but there'd be a mass of those who would want to raise their biological child, like myself.

[Yorkers]

so instead of breeding ourselves we should steal the children of 3rd world countries?

creepy

This.

Also, our foreign aid packages to the Third World should be like 80% contraceptives.

[Esternial]

so instead of breeding ourselves we should steal the children of 3rd world countries?

creepy

This.

Also, our foreign aid packages to the Third World should be like 80% contraceptives.

You do realise that taking the stuff in those packages is optional, right?

People in the "third world" often have kids so they have someone to take care of them when they're old and weak.

[Finaglia]

Right now, first-world birthrates are decreasing. Increasing the proportion of our society that consists of old people. What to do about this is typically framed as an immigration vs. breeding debate; immigration meaning that the effects of a foreign upbringing can affect their role in our society, breeding meaning people pay for the costs associated with OB-GYN care, let alone of baby care. And then there's the nuisance of screaming babies in public...

But what about adoption, the middle ground? Some of their formative years were spent in the third world, but some of them would be spent in the first world, and in so doing, we'd be rescuing them from a life of third-world misery.

And while we're at it, though subsidizing adoption might lead some people to have kids for the wrong reason, if we taxed breeding instead, might that encourage more adoption as an alternative to breeding?

EDIT: Irrelevant sidenote retracted; not worth the risk of derailing the thread over.

You may not be aware that this is not a new thing for a country like the US. People have done this for years, although it is getting harder to accomplish for the average family. Our extended family throughout the 20th century has adopted children from China, Burma, Russia, Ethiopia, Germany, Korea, and Viet-Nam as well as from orphanages (and foster care) within the US. My cousins and I share the common bond of being family despite outward appearances. My brother raised 3 children and adopted an abandoned baby suffering from prenatal methamphetamine exposure--who was quite a handful, but managed to graduate and become a cosmetologist. There is no reason to subsidize this.

Also, abject poverty in the world has decreased dramatically in the last 60 years. My Dept of Ag Farm Bureau Manual from 1973 shows that there is enough viable cropland feed 12 billion people with modern (1970s) technology. With the level of technology we enjoy as a world in the 21st century, the only reason people are impoverished today is because of bad politics and bad religion.

[HMS Vanguard]

The self-euthanising populations of the West will be gone soon, so it's a temporary problem.

What do you mean? How is the current population self-euthanising?

The descendants of 1950 populations of Western countries are reproducing below the replacement rate pretty much everywhere.

[HMS Vanguard]

Well, start with adopting the orphans, and if it catches on, we'll see how it goes from there.

If third world people see how much better off they are in the first world, they might hand them over willingly.

Suuuuuure, just like I'd hand over my flesh and blood to a stranger thousands of miles away and a different culture and rel-- fuck no, I wouldn't.

Really, an idiotic idea, and one that's been done before with horrendously traumatic results.

What's that saying about those who don't learn from history?

The complaint about "stolen generations" is that the children were not orphans, they were taken from living parents. I don't think adopting orphans is controversial anywhere - or is it specifically interracial adoption you object to?

People who object to interracial adoption need to explain how Western education in the Third World is OK, when that too is forcing children to be taught our values, just only a certain numbers of hours in the week. Is boko in fact haram?

If not, taking children from a palaeolithic environment to be raised like Englishmen doesn't sound like a terrible deal for the kids, even if it is rather rougher on the parents.

[Alvecia]

I'd like to have kids with whomever deigns to marry me, but I have given some serious thought to fostering, if at all possible.
I'd like to get financially secure of course, enough to take care of several kids.

[Costa Fierro]

Adopting orphans and immigrants is a short term solution because eventually immigrant birthrates will fall in accordance with better healthcare and longer life spans. It doesn't account for future generations where there needs to be an increase in the birthrate in order to avoid the serious issue of an aging population.

More women are choosing careers over becoming mothers purely because few governments at this point in time provide adequate support for new mothers. Not only that, but the idea of having children is increasingly becoming undesirable and it's becoming more and more socially acceptable for couples to forgo having children at the expense of others.

As humans, we have an obligation to continue our species and an obligation to society to ensure that we have future generations that will not only become productive members of society but also who will work hard in the future to look after us when we are no longer working as well as be able to aid society in general. We need future teachers, doctors, nurses, law enforcement officers and scientists to ensure that we remain protected and cared for in our future rather than be forced to work until we die on our feet. In light of this, being capable of reproducing and not doing so is a hugely selfish and irresponsible life choice and one that should be stamped out, for our sake and our children's.

Potential solutions to this would be huge amounts of state assistance in ensuring new babies are given the best start in life as well as a culture shift away from childlessness and career building into building new and stable families. The alternatives would be rather drastic. From active discrimination against childless couples to forceful impregnation of women who refuse to have children without any properly certified medical exemptions.

[Zeinbrad]

Adopting orphans and immigrants is a short term solution because eventually immigrant birthrates will fall in accordance with better healthcare and longer life spans. It doesn't account for future generations where there needs to be an increase in the birthrate in order to avoid the serious issue of an aging population.

More women are choosing careers over becoming mothers purely because few governments at this point in time provide adequate support for new mothers. Not only that, but the idea of having children is increasingly becoming undesirable and it's becoming more and more socially acceptable for couples to forgo having children at the expense of others.

As humans, we have an obligation to continue our species and an obligation to society to ensure that we have future generations that will not only become productive members of society but also who will work hard in the future to look after us when we are no longer working as well as be able to aid society in general. We need future teachers, doctors, nurses, law enforcement officers and scientists to ensure that we remain protected and cared for in our future rather than be forced to work until we die on our feet. In light of this, being capable of reproducing and not doing so is a hugely selfish and irresponsible life choice and one that should be stamped out, for our sake and our children's.

Potential solutions to this would be huge amounts of state assistance in ensuring new babies are given the best start in life as well as a culture shift away from childlessness and career building into building new and stable families. The alternatives would be rather drastic. From active discrimination against childless couples to forceful impregnation of women who refuse to have children without any properly certified medical exemptions.

What if having kid isn't for them? Or they don't think they'll be good parents, government assistance or not.

People keep talking about falling birth rates, yet the 9th grade in my high school is the biggest class, followed by the Sophomores and Juniors. For example. Excuse me if I don't see.

[Imperializt Russia]

I'm very much so more intent on having progeny of my own thank you. My lineage needs to continue.

Kindly get over yourself, my lord.

[Costa Fierro]

What if having kid isn't for them? Or they don't think they'll be good parents, government assistance or not.

They wouldn't have a choice. The alternatives are for drastic times when the birthrate is significantly below the death rate and government assistance isn't doing enough to help more women transition into motherhood.

People keep talking about falling birth rates, yet the 9th grade in my high school is the biggest class, followed by the Sophomores and Juniors. For example. Excuse me if I don't see.

Because the birthrate was higher when you were brought kicking and screaming into the world than it is today. More children on average were being born at the time you were born than they are today.

[The East Marches]

Right now, first-world birthrates are decreasing. Increasing the proportion of our society that consists of old people. What to do about this is typically framed as an immigration vs. breeding debate; immigration meaning that the effects of a foreign upbringing can affect their role in our society, breeding meaning people pay for the costs associated with OB-GYN care, let alone of baby care. And then there's the nuisance of screaming babies in public...

But what about adoption, the middle ground? Some of their formative years were spent in the third world, but some of them would be spent in the first world, and in so doing, we'd be rescuing them from a life of third-world misery.

And while we're at it, though subsidizing adoption might lead some people to have kids for the wrong reason, if we taxed breeding instead, might that encourage more adoption as an alternative to breeding?

EDIT: Irrelevant sidenote retracted; not worth the risk of derailing the thread over.

Adoption is retarded. Why would you take care of somebody else's kid when you can have your own? You're basically dealing with somebody's elses problem. It seems like a mistake to me. You're gonna have to spend the same amount of money in fees and stuff as you would having your own kid. The costs of the kid over time don't go down either unless you are adopting later on in life. Which makes raising them even more difficult.

It would be fair easier to try to boost birth rates than deal with the trouble of mass adoptions.

[Aekra]

I'd actually prefer to adopt because the idea of childbirth scares me, yo.

Why the heck not.

[Costa Fierro]

I'd actually prefer to adopt because the idea of childbirth scares me, yo.

Why? Outside of living in some third world country, childbirth is extremely safe.

[Aekra]

I'd actually prefer to adopt because the idea of childbirth scares me, yo.

Why? Outside of living in some third world country, childbirth is extremely safe.

I have a huge number of medical disorders I could pass on to the kid.

I have a cognitive disorder, and I feel like I wouldn't be able to handle the process of childbirth.

My point is, childbirth isn't for everyone...

Oh. and on top of all that I can't ever see myself having sex. Too scary.

[Imperializt Russia]

I'd actually prefer to adopt because the idea of childbirth scares me, yo.

Why? Outside of living in some third world country, childbirth is extremely safe.

BDSM is extremely safe. It's still painful. As is childbirth.

[Aekra]

Why? Outside of living in some third world country, childbirth is extremely safe.

BDSM is extremely safe. It's still painful. As is childbirth.

YES THIS. Thank you.

[Costa Fierro]

Why? Outside of living in some third world country, childbirth is extremely safe.

I have a huge number of medical disorders I could pass on to the kid.

I have a cognitive disorder, and I feel like I wouldn't be able to handle the process of childbirth.

My point is, childbirth isn't for everyone...

Oh. and on top of all that I can't ever see myself having sex. Too scary.

That (apart from the no sex part) is perfectly acceptable. Of course at no point did I say that women who didn't have valid medical conditions should be forced to have children. I suggested that women who were capable of having children but refused (i.e being physically and mentally healthy with no history of physical or mental disabilities) should be forced to if the circumstances necessitated such extreme measures.

[Alvecia]

I have a huge number of medical disorders I could pass on to the kid.

I have a cognitive disorder, and I feel like I wouldn't be able to handle the process of childbirth.

My point is, childbirth isn't for everyone...

Oh. and on top of all that I can't ever see myself having sex. Too scary.

That (apart from the no sex part) is perfectly acceptable. Of course at no point did I say that women who didn't have valid medical conditions should be forced to have children. I suggested that women who were capable of having children but refused (i.e being physically and mentally healthy with no history of physical or mental disabilities) should be forced to if the circumstances necessitated such extreme measures.

Forcing women to have kids if they don't want to seems a little rapey.

[Aekra]

That (apart from the no sex part) is perfectly acceptable. Of course at no point did I say that women who didn't have valid medical conditions should be forced to have children. I suggested that women who were capable of having children but refused (i.e being physically and mentally healthy with no history of physical or mental disabilities) should be forced to if the circumstances necessitated such extreme measures.

Forcing women to have kids if they don't want to seems a little rapey.

Agreed!

[Jetan]

Honestly, we should advocate all three. Women should be encouraged to have more children than they currently do (atleast 2 per woman on average to quarantee the population size, preferably a little more for some growth), while also making adoptions from foreign countries easier and establishing a responsible immigration programs. Incentivise skilled and relatively proggressive (for easier integration) immigration, and focusing on integration of those immigrants and the refugees that are taken in (as better off countries we should take in refugees, altough only in such numbers that we can succesfully integrate them without undue issues).

[Zeinbrad]

I have a huge number of medical disorders I could pass on to the kid.

I have a cognitive disorder, and I feel like I wouldn't be able to handle the process of childbirth.

My point is, childbirth isn't for everyone...

Oh. and on top of all that I can't ever see myself having sex. Too scary.

That (apart from the no sex part) is perfectly acceptable. Of course at no point did I say that women who didn't have valid medical conditions should be forced to have children. I suggested that women who were capable of having children but refused (i.e being physically and mentally healthy with no history of physical or mental disabilities) should be forced to if the circumstances necessitated such extreme measures.

I suspect constant breeding is gonna have more (bad) long term effects then good ones. 7 billion people live in this world, and it's growing do to better medical technology.

We aren't living in Children of Men.