Adoption as an alternative to breeding

[Novus America]

no.

The Church of Balk has spoken!

But seriously, no tax on procreation pls. People can adopt if they want, maybe if the govt. has spare cash, they can provide targeted incentives for it, but it shouldn't put disincentives on breeding. That's restrictive of freedom, and I like babymaking as a freedom.

Yeah, why not encourage breeding AND adoption?

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

no.

The Church of Balk has spoken!

But seriously, no tax on procreation pls. People can adopt if they want, maybe if the govt. has spare cash, they can provide targeted incentives for it, but it shouldn't put disincentives on breeding. That's restrictive of freedom, and I like babymaking as a freedom.

Why would any government in the West put disincentives on breeding. That's insanity. We're having negative native population growth.

[Imperializt Russia]

An average two children per woman (which would mean that many women would need to have three or more children, realistically) is wholly unsustainable and absurd.

An average of two children per women, or even more, is not just not absurd but inevitable. Think.

Well now I feel plain silly.

What I had interpreted was two children per person, ie four children per two-parent family (on average) which is more like five or six kids for the average two-parent home.

[Grande Republic of Arcadia]

Right now, first-world birthrates are decreasing. Increasing the proportion of our society that consists of old people. What to do about this is typically framed as an immigration vs. breeding debate; immigration meaning that the effects of a foreign upbringing can affect their role in our society, breeding meaning people pay for the costs associated with OB-GYN care, let alone of baby care. And then there's the nuisance of screaming babies in public...

But what about adoption, the middle ground? Some of their formative years were spent in the third world, but some of them would be spent in the first world, and in so doing, we'd be rescuing them from a life of third-world misery.

And while we're at it, though subsidizing adoption might lead some people to have kids for the wrong reason, if we taxed breeding instead, might that encourage more adoption as an alternative to breeding?

EDIT: Irrelevant sidenote retracted; not worth the risk of derailing the thread over.

Well we can all get laid and that would sol ve thr problem

[Novus America]

The Church of Balk has spoken!

But seriously, no tax on procreation pls. People can adopt if they want, maybe if the govt. has spare cash, they can provide targeted incentives for it, but it shouldn't put disincentives on breeding. That's restrictive of freedom, and I like babymaking as a freedom.

Why would any government in the West put disincentives on breeding. That's insanity. We're having negative native population growth.

Exactly, we should be putting INCENTIVES on breeding.

[Aelex]

Why would any government in the West put disincentives on breeding. That's insanity. We're having negative native population growth.

Heh, talk about you!
Us in France, thanks to the Roman Decadence™ phase we went through in the 19th century, have sexuality rather ingrained in our culture making us more tolerant of out of wedlock birth and bastards and because our welfare make pregnancy affordable; we have managed to maintain our 2.01 child by woman making our population stable and ensuring a steadily rise.

[UniversalCommons]

This is screwed up. People who raise their own children tend to be better at raising other peoples children. The best thing I would imagine is if people adopted kids after they finished raising their first batch of kids. Thus you have experienced parents who can raise kids who need help.

[Vettrera]

My fiancée isn't related to me by blood (because, ew). I love her madly. You can love someone not related to you by blood.

Funny, or rather creepy, how you find more disgusting the idea of incest with a woman than the implied pedophilia of this comparison.
Anyway, your comparison make the perfect exemple. Sure you can love them madly. But you won't love them as your kids. They won't be the blood of your blood, the flesh of your flesh. They won't be your.

That was something you inferred, not something they implied.

Anyway I plan on adopting, but I see why others prefer to have kids that they can call their own and pass their genes into.

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

Why would any government in the West put disincentives on breeding. That's insanity. We're having negative native population growth.

Heh, talk about you!
Us in France, thanks to the Roman Decadence™ phase we went through in the 19th century, have sexuality rather ingrained in our culture making us more tolerant of out of wedlock birth and bastards and because our welfare make pregnancy affordable; we have managed to maintain our 2.01 child by woman making our population stable and ensuring a steadily rise.

You still have negative native born population growth. The Ethnic French aren't having children.

[Novus America]

Why would any government in the West put disincentives on breeding. That's insanity. We're having negative native population growth.

Heh, talk about you!
Us in France, thanks to the Roman Decadence™ phase we went through in the 19th century, have sexuality rather ingrained in our culture making us more tolerant of out of wedlock birth and bastards and because our welfare make pregnancy affordable; we have managed to maintain our 2.01 child by woman making our population stable and ensuring a steadily rise.

2.01 is still below replacement level, which is 2.1. You are doing better than most, but still not great.

[Aelex]

You still have negative native born population growth. The Ethnic French aren't having children.

That's false actually. Second and third generation immigrants have similar birthrate to the "ethnic" french. Their percentage hasn't changed since the 80th and remain at 8%/10% of the total population.

[Salus Maior]

Someone needs to be breeding. We can't rely entirely on adoption or immigration to sustain our population.

[Aelex]

2.01 is still below replacement level, which is 2.1. You are doing better than most, but still not great.

Fair enough, still, when you see the 1.3 child by woman in Germany and 1.6 child by woman on the U.K, having that much is something one can be content of.

[Novus America]

2.01 is still below replacement level, which is 2.1. You are doing better than most, but still not great.

Fair enough, still, when you see the 1.3 child by woman in Germany and 1.6 child by woman on the U.K, having that much is something one can be content of.

Well yeah, like I said France is doing very well relative to other parts of the West.

[Nanatsu no Tsuki]

If you can and want to, adopt. That being said, although it is commendable to want to adopt a child from a foreign country to give them a loving home, do think about those in your foster system too. Also, international adoptions are a pain in the ass. Very expensive and they can drag for years before you are able to get your child home.

But yes, I am pro adoption.

[Salus Maior]

Heh, talk about you!
Us in France, thanks to the Roman Decadence™ phase we went through in the 19th century, have sexuality rather ingrained in our culture making us more tolerant of out of wedlock birth and bastards and because our welfare make pregnancy affordable; we have managed to maintain our 2.01 child by woman making our population stable and ensuring a steadily rise.

Just because they're having sex, doesn't mean they're having children.

[Hardknock]

We need breeding pits and birthing chambers!

Why am I reminded of the scene in Conan where the girl is brought to him and the narrator says, "And he came to know the pleasures of women where he was bred to the finest stock"?

[Sack Jackpot Winners]

I've seen adoption do some wonderful things and I plan on adopting at least one child in my lifetime. As an alternative? If that's your boat float it.

I'm skeptical about subsidization because my heart of hearts tells me it can lead to some serious corruption, and child services (probably those who would be overseeing the subsidization) doesn't need any more of that.

[UniversalCommons]

Why are you afraid of dropping birth rates. I'm not. It is probably a good thing in the long term.

[Donut section]

Axlotl tanks are the way of the future. No need for this breeding and adopting stuff.

[Sack Jackpot Winners]

Why are you afraid of dropping birth rates. I'm not. It is probably a good thing in the long term.

That's what China thought. If they make it through the next few decades it may work out, but all they need is one more baby boom and they're screwed again.

[Grand Britannia]

If anything, we should be stopping negative population growth instead of bringing more people in.

[Hardknock]

If anything, we should be stopping negative population growth instead of bringing more people in.

After National Geographic made a big deal out of our population breaking 7 billion?
The way people were talking about it you would have thought the planet was going to fall out of the solar system from our combined weight.

[Grand Britannia]

If anything, we should be stopping negative population growth instead of bringing more people in.

After National Geographic made a big deal out of our population breaking 7 billion?
The way people were talking about it you would have thought the planet was going to fall out of the solar system from our combined weight.

Having stable population numbers =/= high population growth.

[Hardknock]

After National Geographic made a big deal out of our population breaking 7 billion?
The way people were talking about it you would have thought the planet was going to fall out of the solar system from our combined weight.

Having stable population numbers =/= high population growth.

Of course not. My problem is sifting through all of the various opinions on how many of us should be alive at one time, ranging from 0 to "We are okay for right now, but please stop fucking, especially you Hong Kong, you got people standing out in the water for Pete's sake", depending on what church of environmentalism you subscribe to.