Eleven States sue over federal Transgender Bathroom policy

[Soldati Senza Confini]

Trans people aren't asking for extra rights. They are asking for the same rights, the right to shit according to their gender identity just like everyone else.

Except people are granted the right to shit into the bathroom that match their phenotypical sex, not their gender. Because while the former is something easy to access and to verify, the latter is so inconstant that some describe themselves as "gender-fluid".

How is it easy to access and verify?

If you have an ease to access and verify that a woman really does have a pussy, or that the bulge on someone's pants is really a dick and not a jockstrap, I am more worried about what kind of fucked up views you have about privacy than I do about your ideas on transgender people.

[Genivaria]

This is why some states need fewer 'rights' not more.
Authoritarian asshats.

Yeah, those states being Alabama, Mississippi, California, New York, New Jersey, Illinois, Louisiana, and the inbreds south of the border in Arkansas. The ones that are Authoritarian.

meanwhile: Leave us people in Missouri that just want to give ourselves overwhelming amounts of freedom alone. and leave Utah alone too, those Mormons have been through too much already.

I don't know how this is relevant to what I said.

[Aelex]

I read it. I guess we're not seeing the same thing then and I am not as acrimonious as you are over "fucking SJWs".

How are transgender people asking for special rights and treatment by asking to go to the bathroom of the gender they identify with and to be respected by people and not discriminated against?

Also, how does any of that answer my question about whether or not you would say the same about autists, given we're assuming that trangender people are mentally diseased in the same order as, per my example, an autist?

My, my. Can't you even argue without strawmen and vague ad hominem?

Anyway mate, by asking to have access to bathroom they don't belong into as they don't match their phenotypical sex, they do are asking for special right and treatment.

And that does answer your question as autistics people aren't asking for having access to extra rights compared to the rest of the population when trans do.

[Zoice]

Compared to Trans people who haven't transitioned, it is MUCH better. The one biggest factor is whether the family and friends accept them, if they do, their rate of suicide and their life happiness approaches that of the general population.

Care to provide statistics backing this up?

Transitioning helps.

Trans people aren't asking for extra rights. They are asking for the same rights, the right to shit according to their gender identity just like everyone else.

Except people are granted the right to shit into the bathroom that match their phenotypical sex, not their gender. Because while the former is something easy to access and to verify, the latter is so inconstant that some describe themselves as "gender-fluid".

No, they aren't based on phenotypic sex. If you lost your genitals to illness or injury it doesn't matter. If you are intersex, you don't go to a third washroom, you pick one.

[Aelex]

How is it easy to access and verify?

If you have an ease to access and verify that a woman really does have a pussy, or that the bulge on someone's pants is really a dick and not a jockstrap, I am more worried about what kind of fucked up views you have about privacy than I do about your ideas on transgender people.

Go to the doctor, he can tell you your phenotypical sex. Good luck with him assessing your gender however. Your feelings about yourself shouldn't be something authority is based upon.

[Unified Governments]

People with male genitalia go to the men's room and people with female genitalia go to the women's room. How is this somehow new or discriminatory? It's not about what's between your ears, it's about what's between your legs. Obviously I'm not going to check, but, still.

Edit: several words. I hate typing on my phone.

[Genivaria]

It's almost as if some people believe that state governments should have more rights then the actual people who live in them.

[Czaner]

Care to provide statistics backing this up?

Transitioning helps.

Thats not a statistic. Read.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

I read it. I guess we're not seeing the same thing then and I am not as acrimonious as you are over "fucking SJWs".

How are transgender people asking for special rights and treatment by asking to go to the bathroom of the gender they identify with and to be respected by people and not discriminated against?

Also, how does any of that answer my question about whether or not you would say the same about autists, given we're assuming that trangender people are mentally diseased in the same order as, per my example, an autist?

My, my. Can't you even argue without strawmen and vague ad hominem?

Anyway mate, by asking to have access to bathroom they don't belong into as they don't match their phenotypical sex, they do are asking for special right and treatment.

And that does answer your question as autistics people aren't asking for having access to extra rights compared to the rest of the population when trans do.

Well, I am not the one crying about "fucking SJWs pushing their ideas down my throat" while what they said was "can you prove to me that you aren't talking out of your ass, since you happen to disagree with a vast amount of evidence from the psychological community?"

I'm far less surprised by it than you are, honestly. We've had here in the U.S. black people demanding to be in the same facilities as white people. Were they "uppity niggers who just don't know their place and asking for special rights and treatment" too? Although, one point I'd like to mention is, I think we should abolish gendered restrooms altogether and make them all unisex. Much simpler.

It really, really doesn't answer my question, since you are saying that as soon as someone asks for accommodations (or, according to you, "special rights") they can't have any because they're just being uppity X challenging your little conceptions about the world.

[Aelex]

Transitioning helps.

Ho wow! By the title alone I'm sure everyone can guess how much of an unbiased and well researched source you're providing us!

No, they aren't based on phenotypic sex. If you lost your genitals to illness or injury it doesn't matter. If you are intersex, you don't go to a third washroom, you pick one.

Our entire bureaucracy is based on phenotypic sex. Deny it all you want, the Truth is still gonna hit you in the face someday.

[Vassenor]

People with male genitalia go to the men's room and people with female genitalia go to the men's room. How is this somehow new or discriminatory? It's not about what's between your ass, it's about what's between your legs. Obviously I'm not going to check, but, still.

So how do you enforce then?

[Soldati Senza Confini]

How is it easy to access and verify?

If you have an ease to access and verify that a woman really does have a pussy, or that the bulge on someone's pants is really a dick and not a jockstrap, I am more worried about what kind of fucked up views you have about privacy than I do about your ideas on transgender people.

Go to the doctor, he can tell you your phenotypical sex. Good luck with him assessing your gender however. Your feelings about yourself shouldn't be something authority is based upon.

I am a man, who identifies as a man. But good job at trying to paint something that's not there.

Weren't you the one who just said a message ago that you find me distasteful for using cheap potshots? Whatever happened to that? Did you just suddenly become a hypocrite at your own game?

It's amusing to see how you desperately grasp at straws to undermine me, while also criticizing my style of arguing and at the same time engaging in the same cheap tactics you accuse me of using.

[Unified Governments]

People with male genitalia go to the men's room and people with female genitalia go to the men's room. How is this somehow new or discriminatory? It's not about what's between your ass, it's about what's between your legs. Obviously I'm not going to check, but, still.

So how do you enforce then?

Generally you can tell a person's sex based upon their appearance. But there are those who can pass for the opposite sex and will slip through. As I said, I'm not going to check.

[Dkane]

So I'm just gonna hop in the middle of all this & lay out my whole opinion on the bathrooms issue.

First, I do think that trans people are mentally sick & need psychological help, & we shouldn't be indulging them in their fantasies.

That being said (& before I get to the school bathroom issue), I think that whoever started all this nonsense about the bathrooms started an issue where there wasn't one before. Most public/private places I've been too offer either just a single locked bathroom for use by anybody, or in addition to M/F bathrooms also have a 'family'-type bathroom. As for the ones that don't, I really don't think I (or most people for that matter) would've noticed if a person in drag walked into the bathroom for the sex that they are masquerading as.

Six months ago I wouldn't have given two turds about this issue, but now that it's become such a big issue, everybody's clamoring for laws to regulate it one way or another, when for the past 200 years, the US has gotten along perfectly fine without regulating who can use what bathrooms. There should be exactly zero laws about this issue.

On to the school issue. Bathrooms are literally designed for the different sexes. There's a reason there aren't urinals in female bathrooms (hint, it's because girls don't have penises). Men and women are fundamentally biologically different. "Feeling masculine" & "feeling feminine" do nothing to change your genes, & until science has progressed to where you can change the entirety of a person's genes from XX to XY or vice versa, I'm going to oppose stupid, idiotic, & overreaching laws like this one.

[Vassenor]

So how do you enforce then?

Generally you can tell a person's sex based upon their appearance. But there are those who can pass for the opposite sex and will slip through. As I said, I'm not going to check.

So we're back to saying that anyone who does not look sufficiently stereotypically masculine or feminine should be ejected from whatever toilet they are using.

[Zoice]

Compared to Trans people who haven't transitioned, it is MUCH better. The one biggest factor is whether the family and friends accept them, if they do, their rate of suicide and their life happiness approaches that of the general population.

Care to provide statistics backing this up?

Transitioning helps.

Trans people aren't asking for extra rights. They are asking for the same rights, the right to shit according to their gender identity just like everyone else.

Except people are granted the right to shit into the bathroom that match their phenotypical sex, not their gender. Because while the former is something easy to access and to verify, the latter is so inconstant that some describe themselves as "gender-fluid".

No, they aren't based on phenotypic sex. If you lost your genitals to illness or injury it doesn't matter. If you are intersex, you don't go to a third washroom, you pick one.

[Soldati Senza Confini]

So how do you enforce then?

Generally you can tell a person's sex based upon their appearance. But there are those who can pass for the opposite sex and will slip through. As I said, I'm not going to check.

You generally cannot tell a person's sex based upon their appearance.

You can tell a person's sex upon what the outward characteristics are of a man and a woman that society tells you they should have. But that's no guarantee that you'll know 100% of the time, or even once if you put two people who look out of their gender altogether.

[Ifreann]

I'd think it'd fall under sex, since, you know, we're dealing with sexual characteristics, here.

How does requiring a biological man/woman to use a men's/women's restroom discriminate based on sex? Unless you're saying that men's and women's restrooms are discriminatory simpliciter, the claim simply makes no sense.

I remember when this was the argument against gay marriage. "But it's not discrimination, men are allowed marry women and women are allowed marry men! Perfectly fair!" How'd that work out for you?

---

People with male genitalia go to the men's room and people with female genitalia go to the men's room. How is this somehow new or discriminatory?

Well, it's new in that historically people used the one bathroom, regardless of their genitalia. It's obvious how it's discriminatory. Before now, no one cared about the genitals of the people in the bathroom with them, except people just there for the glory holes. But with trans rights movements getting more public attention, suddenly states feel that there is a pressing need to pass laws changing men's and women's rooms into penis and vagina rooms, respectively. There can be no question that the entire aim of these laws is to discriminate against trans people.

It's not about what's between your ass, it's about what's between your legs. Obviously I'm not going to check, but, still.

Just whose head are you saying is up their own ass?

[Aelex]

Well, I am not the one crying about "fucking SJWs pushing their ideas down my throat" while what they said was "can you prove to me that you aren't talking out of your ass, since you happen to disagree with a vast amount of evidence from the psychological community?"

I'm far less surprised by it than you are, honestly. We've had here in the U.S. black people demanding to be in the same facilities as white people. Were they "uppity niggers who just don't know their place and asking for special rights and treatment" too? Although, one point I'd like to mention is, I think we should abolish gendered restrooms altogether and make them all unisex. Much simpler.

It really, really doesn't answer my question, since you are saying that as soon as someone asks for accommodations (or, according to you, "special rights") they can't have any because they're just being uppity X challenging your little conceptions about the world.

No. You rather are whining about "fucking reactionnary alt-righters" when someone is taking a jape at people thinking that their feeling somehow make an argument and simply asking you why should gender dysphoria, a recognized mental disorder, be treated differently than any other kind of mental disorder. And it is much better for you, somehow.

Race is something demonstrably false. Sex isn't. Therefore, while race segregated bathroom were always based on nothing but discrimination; regular ones are based on physical differences.

Good strawman you built here, mate. But what I'm saying is that when someone is suffering from what is classified as a kind of mental disorder by the O.M.S is asking for being given access to a bathroom he don't belong to on the ground that he feel that he DO belong to it, we shouldn't accept it and change the way we're doing.

[Unified Governments]

Generally you can tell a person's sex based upon their appearance. But there are those who can pass for the opposite sex and will slip through. As I said, I'm not going to check.

So we're back to saying that anyone who does not look sufficiently stereotypically masculine or feminine should be ejected from whatever toilet they are using.

It isn't perfect, but that's the standard, yes. That's the standard it's always been. Unless there's somehow a different standard for male and female bathrooms. I will reiterate that I'm not going to check.

[Vassenor]

So we're back to saying that anyone who does not look sufficiently stereotypically masculine or feminine should be ejected from whatever toilet they are using.

It isn't perfect, but that's the standard, yes. That's the standard it's always been. Unless there's somehow a different standard for male and female bathrooms. I will reiterate that I'm not going to check.

So this is all about the enforcement of tired and outdated gender stereotypes. Got it.

[Unified Governments]

How does requiring a biological man/woman to use a men's/women's restroom discriminate based on sex? Unless you're saying that men's and women's restrooms are discriminatory simpliciter, the claim simply makes no sense.

I remember when this was the argument against gay marriage. "But it's not discrimination, men are allowed marry women and women are allowed marry men! Perfectly fair!" How'd that work out for you?

---

People with male genitalia go to the men's room and people with female genitalia go to the men's room. How is this somehow new or discriminatory?

Well, it's new in that historically people used the one bathroom, regardless of their genitalia. It's obvious how it's discriminatory. Before no, no one cared about the genitals of the people in the bathroom with them, except people just there for the glory holes. But with trans rights movements getting more public attention, suddenly states feel that there is a pressing need to pass laws changing men's and women's rooms into penis and vagina rooms, respectively. There can be no question that the entire aim of these laws is to discriminate against trans people.

It's not about what's between your ass, it's about what's between your legs. Obviously I'm not going to check, but, still.

Just whose head are you saying is up their own ass?

Utter horseshit. What's going on here is people are trying to butcher the standard for restrooms from being based on biological sex to being based on gender. If you're trying to completely redefine the standard of something then you're obviously going to meet a lot of resistance. Suddenly actual biological sex no longer matters. We're going by what people say they feel like.

And sigh, I mean ears, not ass. I hate typing on my phone.

[Aelex]

I am a man, who identifies as a man. But good job at trying to paint something that's not there.

Weren't you the one who just said a message ago that you find me distasteful for using cheap potshots? Whatever happened to that? Did you just suddenly become a hypocrite at your own game?

It's amusing to see how you desperately grasp at straws to undermine me, while also criticizing my style of arguing and at the same time engaging in the same cheap tactics you accuse me of using.

How is it a strawman exactly mate?
You're asking me why we should be continuing to base our bureaucracy on phenotypical sex rather than genders; I'm simply responding to you that any doctor can access your phenotypical sex while your gender is nothing but how you feel.
Feel free to point to me how exactly I'm twisting your argument here, or else your whole rant would quite seem out of place.

[Unified Governments]

It isn't perfect, but that's the standard, yes. That's the standard it's always been. Unless there's somehow a different standard for male and female bathrooms. I will reiterate that I'm not going to check.

So this is all about the enforcement of tired and outdated gender stereotypes. Got it.

Trans people make up, what, less than 1% of the population. I fail to see how it's outdated because less than 1% feel like the opposite gender.

But keep chipping away at that strawman.

[Vassenor]

I remember when this was the argument against gay marriage. "But it's not discrimination, men are allowed marry women and women are allowed marry men! Perfectly fair!" How'd that work out for you?

---

Well, it's new in that historically people used the one bathroom, regardless of their genitalia. It's obvious how it's discriminatory. Before no, no one cared about the genitals of the people in the bathroom with them, except people just there for the glory holes. But with trans rights movements getting more public attention, suddenly states feel that there is a pressing need to pass laws changing men's and women's rooms into penis and vagina rooms, respectively. There can be no question that the entire aim of these laws is to discriminate against trans people.

Just whose head are you saying is up their own ass?

Utter horseshit. What's going on here is people are trying to butcher the standard for restrooms from being based on biological sex to being based on gender. If you're trying to completely redefine the standard of something then you're obviously going to meet a lot of resistance. Suddenly actual biological sex no longer matters. We're going by what people say they feel like.

And sigh, I mean ears, not ass. I hate typing on my phone.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Appeal_to_tradition