Free Speech or Social Justice

[Minzerland]

Yeah, but we are talking about opinions that don't really have a place in a place of learning and education. If someone wants to go to campus and hold a talk about how science shows that the earth is flat, there is good reason to think that this talk shouldn't happen. If someone is convinced that the earth is flat (or black people are stupid, or trans people don't exist, or women belong in the kitchen or whatever), a debate in which they are being provided with sources and references to data and analysis that debunks their views won't change their mind, or the mind of other people agreed with those views in the first place. So all you've achieved is give those people a bigger audience than they would have had otherwise.

What is your opinions on Social Justice courses in college?

From the available footage, disgraceful

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYkq6l-RxfE

[Kelinfort]

I'm honestly tired of Shakespeare, though.

But that's a pretty tame thing and no doubt, if I were a professor, I'd ignore it. I'd add other poets along the lines of Langston Hughes and Maya Angelou, but I'd laugh their white asses back to the Student Union if they scream any louder.

I'm honestly sick of their crying, 'HE'S A WHITE MALE!!!1!', Shakespeare is arguably one of the most influential people in the history of the English language.

I understand, but c'mon, I want more of Chaucer and Milton. Shakespeare is literally as ubiquitous as Harry Potter. Paradise Lost isn't.

[East Catalina]

What is your opinions on Social Justice courses in college?

From the available footage, disgraceful

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYkq6l-RxfE

Come on, ideological indoctrination isn't disgraceful.
It's just disturbing.

I'm honestly sick of their crying, 'HE'S A WHITE MALE!!!1!', Shakespeare is arguably one of the most influential people in the history of the English language.

I understand, but c'mon, I want more of Chaucer and Milton. Shakespeare is literally as ubiquitous as Harry Potter. Paradise Lost isn't.

I agree with the latter half. I don't particularly want more of either of them, but I'm not totally opposed.

[The balkens]

What is your opinions on Social Justice courses in college?

From the available footage, disgraceful

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYkq6l-RxfE

Thats not disgraceful, thats just bra on balls.

[Neu Leonstein]

Well that and the fact that the are based on pseudoscience. Which shouldn't a college course make.

The problem here is that I've never attended a social justice course, and I don't know what's actually involved. So I can't say anything about the science involved either. But like I said, it seems like a waste of money either way if the thing you get out of it is that you shouldn't be a dick to other people.

My toy theory of good social policy is that for any law you should imagine that instead of a law on a book, this law was enforced by you going around and physically doing to people you know whatever the law says (or stop them from doing, whatever the case may be). If you think that such a situation is ok for you, then we can start talking about whether the law has any meaningful costs and benefits to society.

But if you wouldn't be comfortable with actually enforcing such a law yourself against actual real people, then we don't even need to start the conversation. In that case you already know that it is wrong, and you're using the few degrees of removal and impersonality of the legal system to avoid having to think about that.

[East Catalina]

From the available footage, disgraceful

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYkq6l-RxfE

Thats not disgraceful, thats just bra on balls.

That image is wrong on so many levels.

[Neu Leonstein]

From the available footage, disgraceful

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYkq6l-RxfE

To be fair, we have no idea what that footage is actually of. It could just be a rally or something. Certainly doesn't look like a lecture of a university course.

[Minzerland]

From the available footage, disgraceful

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYkq6l-RxfE

Thats not disgraceful, thats just bra on balls.

*shiver*

[The balkens]

Thats not disgraceful, thats just bra on balls.

That image is wrong on so many levels.

and yet so true.

[Neu Leonstein]

So I had a look at a course called Bachelor of Arts (Social Justice) from a local university.

http://courses.mq.edu.au/undergraduate/ ... al-justice

It features courses (required, I believe, if I read this right) in things like "Reading Gender in Everyday Life". Now, obviously not everyone is going to get something out of the course. And as I said above, I don't think that it actually enriches you that much compared to just not being a dick to people. But anyway, in the interest of learning:

This unit examines how gender functions in our day-to-day lives. We look closely at common activities like shopping, eating, grooming, talking, reading, going to the movies, using cosmetic surgery, getting married and more, to examine some of the discourses – biological, cultural, social, anthropological – that reproduce ideas of masculinity and femininity, of being a man or woman. We look at intersections of gender with class, ethnicity, and race. We also introduce students to some of the influential ideas on how gender works, theories by European philosophers like Freud and Foucault, as well as essays by feminist activists and post-modern writers on gender and sexuality.

I'm pretty convinced that that youtube video was mislabelled and what was shown was not a lecture in a course like the above.

[East Catalina]

So I had a look at a course called Bachelor of Arts (Social Justice) from a local university.

http://courses.mq.edu.au/undergraduate/ ... al-justice

It features courses (required, I believe, if I read this right) in things like "Reading Gender in Everyday Life". Now, obviously not everyone is going to get something out of the course. And as I said above, I don't think that it actually enriches you that much compared to just not being a dick to people. But anyway, in the interest of learning:

This unit examines how gender functions in our day-to-day lives. We look closely at common activities like shopping, eating, grooming, talking, reading, going to the movies, using cosmetic surgery, getting married and more, to examine some of the discourses – biological, cultural, social, anthropological – that reproduce ideas of masculinity and femininity, of being a man or woman. We look at intersections of gender with class, ethnicity, and race. We also introduce students to some of the influential ideas on how gender works, theories by European philosophers like Freud and Foucault, as well as essays by feminist activists and post-modern writers on gender and sexuality.

I'm pretty convinced that that youtube video was mislabelled and what was shown was not a lecture in a course like the above.

Heavens no. It looked more like a gor-blimey club. Although if it was at a big enough uni, I dunno if professors can have their kids engage in ideological rallies like those for a class...

[Minzerland]

From the available footage, disgraceful

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=KYkq6l-RxfE

To be fair, we have no idea what that footage is actually of. It could just be a rally or something. Certainly doesn't look like a lecture of a university course.

I have no idea, but I have no doubt they're being taught by someone and, quite frankly, I'm willing to say it's these Social Justice courses.

I'm going to have look deeper.

[New Edom]

Yes. They harassed two administrative officials at Yale over halloween costumes until one of them resigned. There are many examples. SJW tactics for silencing opponents include:
- Preventing them from being heard altogether (pulling fire alarms, charging onto stages, shouting and chanting, blowing noise makers, shouting pepole down with repetitive remarks) (Ryserson, U of T, U of M)
- Trying to prevent student organizations from forming with false acusations (U of T, Ryerson, KSU)
- Trying to shut down events with false accusations (PUA gatherings, MRA gatherings)
- Trying to censor the internet not for blatant hate speech but for questioning ideologies at all (UN fiasco, Twittergate)

"U of T"? What university is that?

I'm honestly tired of Shakespeare, though.

But that's a pretty tame thing and no doubt, if I were a professor, I'd ignore it. I'd add other poets along the lines of Langston Hughes and Maya Angelou, but I'd laugh their white asses back to the Student Union if they scream any louder.

...This is abysmal.
So that all the nazis will clap me on the back as a good black guy, I will say this as a representative of the black community.

The University of Toronto.

[East Catalina]

"U of T"? What university is that?

...This is abysmal.
So that all the nazis will clap me on the back as a good black guy, I will say this as a representative of the black community.

The University of Toronto.

Oh. Well, there's a UT in my region, I was hoping it wasn't that one. I'm not happy to hear such nonsense happened in Toronto, though.

[Minzerland]

So I had a look at a course called Bachelor of Arts (Social Justice) from a local university.

http://courses.mq.edu.au/undergraduate/ ... al-justice

It features courses (required, I believe, if I read this right) in things like "Reading Gender in Everyday Life". Now, obviously not everyone is going to get something out of the course. And as I said above, I don't think that it actually enriches you that much compared to just not being a dick to people. But anyway, in the interest of learning:

This unit examines how gender functions in our day-to-day lives. We look closely at common activities like shopping, eating, grooming, talking, reading, going to the movies, using cosmetic surgery, getting married and more, to examine some of the discourses – biological, cultural, social, anthropological – that reproduce ideas of masculinity and femininity, of being a man or woman. We look at intersections of gender with class, ethnicity, and race. We also introduce students to some of the influential ideas on how gender works, theories by European philosophers like Freud and Foucault, as well as essays by feminist activists and post-modern writers on gender and sexuality.

I'm pretty convinced that that youtube video was mislabelled and what was shown was not a lecture in a course like the above.

One of the video's in the compilation was from VCU.

[Neu Leonstein]

Heavens no. It looked more like a gor-blimey club. Although if it was at a big enough uni, I dunno if professors can have their kids engage in ideological rallies like those for a class...

Look, if this was really a university professor holding a rally in class about how they have to fight and win, chances are every right-wing blog on the planet would have told us about it by now. They love that sort of thing.

[New Edom]

BTW, lol @Yale. I love how the 1% are so utterly fragile these days. Someone get the muffins a pat of butter.

[Neu Leonstein]

One of the video's in the compilation was from VCU.

That's not really the question though. The question is whether it was part of a course, or whether it was just some thing that happened on campus. I've spent enough time on campuses to know that various student society events are going on all the time, including in tutorial rooms, including powerpoint and so on. Just from that I don't think we can say whether it's a class or just a thing students do with one another. The difference is relevant.

[East Catalina]

Heavens no. It looked more like a gor-blimey club. Although if it was at a big enough uni, I dunno if professors can have their kids engage in ideological rallies like those for a class...

Look, if this was really a university professor holding a rally in class about how they have to fight and win, chances are every right-wing blog on the planet would have told us about it by now. They love that sort of thing.

I hope so! It would make all this much clearer.

BTW, lol @Yale. I love how the 1% are so utterly fragile these days. Someone get the muffins a pat of butter.

Well, it's like Russians and black people.
Don't see enough black people and hear about how they're all monkeys, and guess what you're a racist in denial.

[The Archbishop]

It's dreadful how delicate this generation has become. I'm siding with the free speech, but do acknowledge there is a gap between free speech and criticism.

[New Edom]

Look, if this was really a university professor holding a rally in class about how they have to fight and win, chances are every right-wing blog on the planet would have told us about it by now. They love that sort of thing.

I hope so! It would make all this much clearer.

BTW, lol @Yale. I love how the 1% are so utterly fragile these days. Someone get the muffins a pat of butter.

Well, it's like Russians and black people.
Don't see enough black people and hear about how they're all monkeys, and guess what you're a racist in denial.

Right. And therefore miss the whole point of literature, that it should focus on what is common to all of us. Supposedly we all feel things like loneliness, grief, anger, jealousy, etc. And here's a thought for those fools: you would nave no Langston Hughes or Toni Morrison without Shakespeare.

[Kanaria]

I hope so! It would make all this much clearer.

Well, it's like Russians and black people.
Don't see enough black people and hear about how they're all monkeys, and guess what you're a racist in denial.

Right. And therefore miss the whole point of literature, that it should focus on what is common to all of us. Supposedly we all feel things like loneliness, grief, anger, jealousy, etc. And here's a thought for those fools: you would nave no Langston Hughes or Toni Morrison without Shakespeare.

No, and we also wouldn't have a lot of words of English, or maybe even a good Middle English body of corpora, without him. I say we keep him there alongside some of the more modern authors. Good modern authors, too. I might hate English classes- no, I don't hate them, just homework and essays- but I recognize the value in MacBeth. It was a good play, too!

[Abusing Zooplankton]

Last night a conservative commentator that I have a clear affinity for, Milo Yiannopoulos, was silenced by Black Lives Matter and related Social Justice movements. After storming the stage, the protestors screamed, threatened to hit the speaker and others. They verbally attacked a black woman who came on stage to tell them to stop, as if she was betraying her race, something she has no control over, because of her political beliefs. The university they were at refused to allow security that this commentator had paid for to remove the disruptors, forcing the event to be cancelled. If this is the future of politics as seen through a social justice lens then I fear for our future. A future where political discourse is ravaged by preventing speakers from exercising their right to speak and demonizing anyone who you disagree with is not a future I wish to participate in, because I probably wouldn't be allowed to participate in it. These actions make clear that one of two things has to go: Free Speech or extreme social justice.

Read more about it from here:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/university-admins-surrender-to-violent-protesters-shutter_us_57454738e4b00853ae7b5ae3
The Video of the event:
https://youtu.be/Pw-MnRyIoQY?t=46m14s

The promotion any ideology or activism of any kind should never be used to justify violence. If we apply the categorical imperative, we see this is wrong, since the rule of law of break down and anarchy would reign if all groups used violence to attain political objectives. If we look at it from a consequentialist perspective, the fundamental basis of society is weakened, violence inflicts pain, and easily leads to escalation and retrenchment of long-held beliefs in the face of perceived prosecution rather than leading to solutions to long-standing problems. Pursuit of redress of grievances through violence is empirically ineffective.

[Liberaxia]

I don't vest much interest in social justice, but I find some of the people who position themselves as anti-SJW to be utterly contemptible trash.

[Minzerland]

I don't vest much interest in social justice, but I find some of the people who position themselves as anti-SJW to be utterly contemptible trash.

And why is that?