Austrian right-wing candidate barely loses..

[Eol Sha]

Wow. Talk about a close election.

[Novus America]

My example was deliberate. I am not against all immigration. I said the Emglish speaking doctor is good. But that is not an argument for open borders but an arguement for immigration controls that let in those based on what the country needs.

Again the US in the 19th century could support, and in fact needed huge numbers of immigrants. The US then had a shortage of workers. Europe has massive unemployment.

And it is not a matter of merely educating them. That does not do much when educated Europeans are out of work.

First you need a growing ecnomy, low unemployment and plenty of land. Europe has none of these.

The european economy is growing actually, what we need is rebalancing of the economy away from the massive finacial sector which is making eating up all the available cash and essentially sitting on it. Immigration is not the problem it doesn't even excabarate the problem since as far as I know iun much of Europe the unemployment numbers aren't increasing.

The European economy is barely growing. Inflation adjusted it is basically stagnant. Yes the European ecnonmy needs rebalancing but that needs to come first. And even if the unemployment numbers are not increasing, still bringing in more unskilled workers when you have no jobs for them makes no real sense.

[Risottia]

Tsipras.

...

Well, if you don't look too close at the austerity policies he has to enforce.

Mark him as "left-wing, not in power"?

Or as "left-wing, in power, completely screwed by the centrists who preceded him".

[Grande Republic of Arcadia]

Personally though, this is a narrow victory against the Right. The Right will surely come back again to gain power.
Fascism and Far-Right sentiments will rise again, mark my words. Communism was but a temporary threat that was unsustainable and only made popular due the Soviets and their massive support against Nazi Germany and them supporting Chinese Communist Rebels.
The Soviet Union was the main reason Communism survived so long-it's military and economic muscle.
Fascism and Capitalism don't need that. As such, the Fascists and Xenophobes despite only having ruled a short time in the 1930's in the past, is going to be the far more enduring threat.
Which is why we need a new idealogy that's a mix of a few...perhaps my custom idealogy which I'm currently fleshing out.

Actually I came to the same conclusion and have started making my own ideology as well.

I follow a select interpretation of Fascism(Not Nazism)
its more of Fascism mixed with US conservatism, and traditionalism

[Imperializt Russia]

I said "also" and "contributed to".

Still population decline simply does not work in a welfare state.

If it is sustained.

[Esceen]

my suspicions have been growing recently that every election is declared as "neck and neck" or 50/50. The Brexit in England, the last american general election, the last French election and now Austria. I simply dont believe that on such polarizing subjects that Europe faces today, that every country is so perfectly split 50/50 in opinion.

*YESTERDAY ALEXANDER VAN DER BELLEN WAS TRAILING BY A LARGE MARGIN

*OVERTOOK FREEDOM PARTY PREIDENTIAL CANDIDATE NORBERT HOFER TODAY THROUGH POSTAL VOTES

*MORE THAN 60% OF RECORD NUMBER OF POSTAL VOTES WENT TO VAN DER BELLEN, ALLOWING HIM TO WIN BY A FEW THOUSAND VOTES

*ALMOST THREE TIMES MORE POSTAL VOTES THAN LAST PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION AT ABOUT 14% OF TOTAL VOTE

*UNPRECEDENTED CONFLICT BETWEEN POSTAL VOTES RESULT AND REGULAR VOTING RESULT WHERE HOFER GOT 52%

*MAINSTREAM MEDIA PREDICTED VICTORY OF VAN DER BELLEN THROUGH POSTAL VOTES YESTERDAY

*MINISTRY OF INTERIOR POSTED VICTORY OF VAN DER BELLEN THROUGH POSTAL VOTES LAST NIGHT “BY MISTAKE”

*POSTAL VOTES SUBJECT TO MASSIVE MANIPULATION ADMITS DIE PRESSE

*LEFT IN UNGUARDED VACCUUM OVERNIGHT, SHOULD BE COUNTED IMMEDIATELY IN FUTURE SAYS TOP JUDGE IN AUSTRIA

Establishment candidate and Green Party head Alexander van der Bellen is set to be declared president of Austria amid fears of massive election fraud centering around a record number of postal votes cast.

http://diepresse.com/home/politik/bpwah ... k/index.do

http://www.krone.at/Oesterreich/Jetzt_f ... ory-511481

In a development, which is unprecedented in electoral terms, van der Bellen picked up over 60% of the postal votes to pip Freedom Party candidate Norbert Hofer to the post by a few thousand votes.

Yesterday, van der Bellen was trailing Hofer by 144,000 votes or about 4% of the total vote at 48%.

It beggers belief that van der Bellen reversed the trend through the postal votes, which were counted out today,

alone.

Postal votes are open to a whole range of manipulation techniques, as even Die Presse admits.

http://diepresse.com/home/politik/bpwah ... k/index.do

Voting cards sent by post can get “lost”, fall into the wrong hands, filled out in a particular way in return for money, filled out on behalf of the whole family by the patriarchal head of a Turkish? family, filled out on behalf of an elderly person by their guardian and so on

Crucial too is which the decision about which postal votes are to be discarded as invalid and how many postal votes are counted overall.

Postal votes are also left overnight in an unguarded vacuum, prompting criticism even from the head of the country’s constitutional court, Robert Holzinger.

http://diepresse.com/home/politik/bpwah ... -Wahlabend

Suspicious too is that there no reason for the record number of applications for postal votes . The election is in May and the weather is good. There is no major sporting or other event to distract people. In addition, there are about 13,000 voting centres around the country, making it a short trip to cast a vote.

There were almost three times more postal votes than for the last presidential election in 2010 at about 800,000 votes or 14% of the total votes.

http://diepresse.com/home/politik/hofbu ... 36-Prozent

Mainstream media and the Interior Ministry predicted a knife edge victory against all odds for Alexander van der Bellen yesterday. How was such an accurate prediction possible unless the election was fixed?

Globalist candidate and Green Party leader Alexander van der Bellen has won the presidential elections in Austria due to postal votes, according to Interior Ministry results.

The only problem is that the results were posted at 9 pm last night before the counting of postal votes had started. The record number of postal votes is actually scheduled to be counted today.

http://www.heute.at/bpw16/Riesen-Wirbel ... 55,1291428

http://orf.at/#/stories/2340516/

In addition, the postal votes attributed to Van der Bellen on the Interior Ministry website are not enough for him to win. This can be figured out by anyone knowing simple arithmetic and underlines just how desperate the establishment are to get van der Bellen announced as the next president.

The story went viral on the internet, forcing the Interior Ministry to remove the results. A spokesperson claimed the results were a “test” which had gone on online by mistake.

The incident has fuelled fears that Austria’s presidential elections have been fixed, and that the establishment are determined to deny Freedom Party candidate Norbert Hofer the post by any means they can.

While demonized by the mainstream media as a far right candidate, Hofer has promoted an agenda which resists Globalist take over. He is, for example, against TTIP and against mass illegal immigration.

Establishment media are carrying headlines of a run off election on a knife edge between van der Bellen and candidate Norbert Hofer when Hofer had, in fact, obtained 144,000 more votes and an almost 4% lead.

Postal votes are notoriously open to fraud.

Who, after all, is going to check if all those little old ladies in care homes really did tick the box for van der Bellen?

It would be no surprise if van der Bellen does become president as a result of them today. It remains to be seen whether the Freedom Party will contest any such result as they should or whether they will accept what seems to be a stolen election.

https://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2016/0 ... -underway/

[Vassenor]

So what you're saying is that the election was rigged because the candidate you wanted to win didn't?

[Esceen]

So what you're saying is that the election was rigged because the candidate you wanted to win didn't?

I'm saying the election was rigged because it was rigged.

14.2% of the votes were cast per mail.
In person voting was yesterday.
Mail was counted this morning.

Hofer led before the mail was counted. VdB led after.

It was admitted that the mail vote is subject to massive manipulation.

Did you read anything in my spoiler?

[Vassenor]

Do you have any actual proof that the count was fraudulent?

[Conserative Morality]

my suspicions have been growing recently that every election is declared as "neck and neck" or 50/50. The Brexit in England, the last american general election, the last French election and now Austria. I simply dont believe that on such polarizing subjects that Europe faces today, that every country is so perfectly split 50/50 in opinion.

It's the nature of democracy. Any issue that *wasn't* close to 50/50 would be embraced by one side or abandoned by the other in order to become more competitive. 50/50 style issues are the only ones in which political jockeying can occur. Issues that are extremely popular or unpopular become, ironically, non-issues.

[Esceen]

Do you have any actual proof that the count was fraudulent?

Just a incredibly suspicious happening because of the easily manipulated mail vote count which allowed Van Der Bellen to win by a very small margin. Just a coincidence? How is this not vote manipulation? This is enough evidence on it's own. It's is statistically very highly unlikely to the point of impossible that so many Green voters would just submit their vote through mail.

[MERIZoC]

So what you're saying is that the election was rigged because the candidate you wanted to win didn't?

I'm saying the election was rigged because it was rigged.

14.2% of the votes were cast per mail.
In person voting was yesterday.
Mail was counted this morning.

Hofer led before the mail was counted. VdB led after.

It was admitted that the mail vote is subject to massive manipulation.

Did you read anything in my spoiler?

Long before the mail votes were counted newspapers were noting that they were predicted to favor VdB.

[MERIZoC]

Do you have any actual proof that the count was fraudulent?

Just a incredibly suspicious happening because of the easily manipulated mail vote count which allowed Van Der Bellen to win by a very small margin. Just a coincidence? How is this not vote manipulation? This is enough evidence on it's own. It's is statistically very highly unlikely to the point of impossible that so many Green voters would just submit their vote through mail.

It's almost as if they're from different demographics than the far right voters.

[Vassenor]

Also I find it interesting you apparently know the outcome of the UK's EU referendum a month before it happens.

[Outer Sparta]

Wow. Talk about a close election.

Austria was this close to being ruled under the far-right extremism. Go Greens!

[Esceen]

my suspicions have been growing recently that every election is declared as "neck and neck" or 50/50. The Brexit in England, the last american general election, the last French election and now Austria. I simply dont believe that on such polarizing subjects that Europe faces today, that every country is so perfectly split 50/50 in opinion.

It's the nature of democracy. Any issue that *wasn't* close to 50/50 would be embraced by one side or abandoned by the other in order to become more competitive. 50/50 style issues are the only ones in which political jockeying can occur. Issues that are extremely popular or unpopular become, ironically, non-issues.

Yeah, that's fine I guess I don't really mind if democracy decides issues in a legitimate vote but what I do have a problem with is this obvious vote manipulation

Just a incredibly suspicious happening because of the easily manipulated mail vote count which allowed Van Der Bellen to win by a very small margin. Just a coincidence? How is this not vote manipulation? This is enough evidence on it's own. It's is statistically very highly unlikely to the point of impossible that so many Green voters would just submit their vote through mail.

It's almost as if they're from different demographics than the far right voters.

Do different demographics have more of a tendency to mail their votes? I wouldn't think so.

Also I find it interesting you apparently know the outcome of the UK's EU referendum a month before it happens.

No I don't. I'm going off polls. It's 50 50

[Imperializt Russia]

So what you're saying is that the election was rigged because the candidate you wanted to win didn't?

I'm saying the election was rigged because it was rigged.

14.2% of the votes were cast per mail.
In person voting was yesterday.
Mail was counted this morning.

Hofer led before the mail was counted. VdB led after.

It was admitted that the mail vote is subject to massive manipulation.

Did you read anything in my spoiler?

Unless Austria has the mafia do their postal vote counting, no it's not "subject to massive manipulation", as other countries have no such problems. I postal vote in the UK. Just means that I cast my vote several weeks before everyone else.
Speaking personally, more left-leaning people tend to postal vote. I don't know many right-leaning people.

Die Presse, I concede I can't be arsed to read the article because it's 1am, is presumably listing a bunch of maybes about how it could be manipulated. It probably isn't.

As der Bellen was standing as an independent, not sure he really counts as "establishment" either.

It was 50/50 of the runoff. There were, to my recollection, more than two candidates, and this was functionally the second round of voting. I don't know much about the Austrian presidential election.

We've established earlier that the Austrian president is a mostly ceremonial role. What purpose would exist in rigging this election?

[Imperializt Russia]

Do you have any actual proof that the count was fraudulent?

Just a incredibly suspicious happening because of the easily manipulated mail vote count which allowed Van Der Bellen to win by a very small margin. Just a coincidence? How is this not vote manipulation? This is enough evidence on it's own. It's is statistically very highly unlikely to the point of impossible that so many Green voters would just submit their vote through mail.

That's actually absurdly likely. Why do you think otherwise?

[Esceen]

I'm saying the election was rigged because it was rigged.

14.2% of the votes were cast per mail.
In person voting was yesterday.
Mail was counted this morning.

Hofer led before the mail was counted. VdB led after.

It was admitted that the mail vote is subject to massive manipulation.

Did you read anything in my spoiler?

Unless Austria has the mafia do their postal vote counting, no it's not "subject to massive manipulation", as other countries have no such problems. I postal vote in the UK. Just means that I cast my vote several weeks before everyone else.
Speaking personally, more left-leaning people tend to postal vote. I don't know many right-leaning people.

Die Presse, I concede I can't be arsed to read the article because it's 1am, is presumably listing a bunch of maybes about how it could be manipulated. It probably isn't.

As der Bellen was standing as an independent, not sure he really counts as "establishment" either.

It was 50/50 of the runoff. There were, to my recollection, more than two candidates, and this was functionally the second round of voting. I don't know much about the Austrian presidential election.

We've established earlier that the Austrian president is a mostly ceremonial role. What purpose would exist in rigging this election?

The purpose? A lot of right wing people say that this would be a win for moral. It may be a ceremonial role but if someone could rig the election to win they would

[Vassenor]

It's not at 50-50 at all.

And would you still be making these claims if your preferred candidate had won under these same "obviously fraudulent" conditions?

[Geilinor]

Do you have any actual proof that the count was fraudulent?

Just a incredibly suspicious happening because of the easily manipulated mail vote count which allowed Van Der Bellen to win by a very small margin. Just a coincidence? How is this not vote manipulation? This is enough evidence on it's own. It's is statistically very highly unlikely to the point of impossible that so many Green voters would just submit their vote through mail.

The people who voted for Hofer and Van Der Bellen are significantly different demographically. It's possible.

[Imperializt Russia]

Unless Austria has the mafia do their postal vote counting, no it's not "subject to massive manipulation", as other countries have no such problems. I postal vote in the UK. Just means that I cast my vote several weeks before everyone else.
Speaking personally, more left-leaning people tend to postal vote. I don't know many right-leaning people.

Die Presse, I concede I can't be arsed to read the article because it's 1am, is presumably listing a bunch of maybes about how it could be manipulated. It probably isn't.

As der Bellen was standing as an independent, not sure he really counts as "establishment" either.

It was 50/50 of the runoff. There were, to my recollection, more than two candidates, and this was functionally the second round of voting. I don't know much about the Austrian presidential election.

We've established earlier that the Austrian president is a mostly ceremonial role. What purpose would exist in rigging this election?

The purpose? A lot of right wing people say that this would be a win for moral. It may be a ceremonial role but if someone could rig the election to win they would

So, there's exactly as much incentive to rig this election, as there is to rig any election occurring anywhere.

Riveting evidence.

[Esceen]

Just a incredibly suspicious happening because of the easily manipulated mail vote count which allowed Van Der Bellen to win by a very small margin. Just a coincidence? How is this not vote manipulation? This is enough evidence on it's own. It's is statistically very highly unlikely to the point of impossible that so many Green voters would just submit their vote through mail.

That's actually absurdly likely. Why do you think otherwise?

Is there anything to suggest that left wing voters are more likely to vote by mail?

It's not at 50-50 at all.

And would you still be making these claims if your preferred candidate had won under these same "obviously fraudulent" conditions?

It will be, just you watch. It is basically half and half in that poll anyway. The stay will steal the referendum just like the Scotland referendum, and by no means am I a scotland supporter, the opposite actually.

If Hofer won using the mail vote that can be manipulated then I would be pissed. Democracy is being turned into something worthless. With the voter fraud in America to this it's getting to Putin levels of democracy.

[Imperializt Russia]

That's actually absurdly likely. Why do you think otherwise?

Is there anything to suggest that left wing voters are more likely to vote by mail?

One major left-wing demographic is students.
Students often do not live at home.
Students will therefore disproportionately postal vote.

Hence that personal experience I was talking about.

[MERIZoC]

It's almost as if they're from different demographics than the far right voters.

Do different demographics have more of a tendency to mail their votes? I wouldn't think so.

Yes lol. People who don't have time to go to the ballot boxes for example.