Austrian right-wing candidate barely loses..

[Great Feng]

Humans tend to become more and more extremist in their views over time

Really?

When faced by unfavorable situations.
Through my examination of several of my friends and society, society does seem to tend to shift to either the far-left and far-right a lot, especially during problems such as the current world situation.
Europe is shifting farther to the right, and those people weren't always right-many were in the past centrists and even leftists.
It seems due to experience, that during times of pressure, people abandoning being moderate and shift to the far right and far left.
Cases in point: Russian Revolution, Chinese Communist Revolution, Mussolini's rise to power, Hitler's rise to power, Trump's rise to power, Bernie Sanders's rise to power(I Like him though), Napoleon's rise to power, Putin's rise to power, etc.

[Ostroeuropa]

Because the left has become anti-western, anti-white, anti-male, and pro-islam, and in many cases, pro-corporatism and globalism.

Oh, we're seriously doing this? Are we seriously just going to wheel out the "white genocide" myth and all that jazz?

Don't need to go to white-genocide to note that a substantial portion of the left wing has been using whiteness as an excuse to shout people down, enforce racial discrimination policies, supported minorities being given privileges, etc.

[Conserative Morality]

pray tell, what do Left Wing Authoritarianism and Right Wing Authoritarianism direct their authoritarianism at?

The left generally directs its scapegoating efforts on class and ideological traitors, the right tends towards scapegoating the dreaded 'other', minorities, outsiders, other countries, etc. Not to say that they can't mix and match. It's more a rule of thumb.

[Minoa]

This is why I vote: if more people voted in the UK then there would be more hope and more understanding.

More hope for what and more understanding of what?

I mean to say to heal the divisions that threaten to tear apart the Austrian social fabric and to improve understanding of everyone as equal human beings so that the horrors of history will not repeat.

[Kelinfort]

Because the left has become anti-western, anti-white, anti-male, and pro-islam, and in many cases, pro-corporatism and globalism.

Oh, we're seriously doing this? Are we seriously just going to wheel out the "white genocide" myth and all that jazz?

Neoliberals are in cahoots with SJW's to kill poor white men and leave the rest to be cuckolds to big brown Arab dick.

[Great Feng]

pray tell, what do Left Wing Authoritarianism and Right Wing Authoritarianism direct their authoritarianism at?

The left generally directs its scapegoating efforts on class and ideological traitors, the right tends towards scapegoating the dreaded 'other', minorities, outsiders, other countries, etc. Not to say that they can't mix and match. It's more a rule of thumb.

I see.
Thank you.

[Xadufell]

I'm glad that a party supporting Feminism and women's rights finally achieved power in Austria, smashing the patriarchal reactionary power who wished to limit abortion (by "giving women a mandatory time of reflection before being able to performing an abortion" - that was FPO political programme) and banning lesbians from marriage, adoptions and having artificial inseminations.
I'm also pretty sure that the Green Party will immediatly crack down on prostitution by adopting the Swedish Model, since they supported Swedish Model as European policy in the vote within EU Parliament on Februray 2014.

*Chokes*

[Conserative Morality]

Neoliberals are in cahoots with SJW's to kill poor white men and leave the rest to be cuckolds to big brown Arab dick.

People need to stop mixing their fetishes with their political allegiance.

[Valaran]

Putin is not the Russian far-right lol (though elements of United Russia are). Zhirinovsky is much closer to that bill.

Fidez is not far right by Hungarian standards. By your standards, sure.

Well far left and far right is relative. Russia and Hungary are far right, even compared to the US.

I think its fair to say Russia is more statist and conservative compared to the US, as is Hungary, but the US is not that right wing anyhow (I'd say its more libertarian/laissez faire instead). Besides, these parties would all appear quite extreme to our sensibilities anyway, which makes it hard for outsiders to differentiate between them, but they are quite different. United Russia has no consistent ideology (deliberately so), certainly not compared with the LDPR, and Fidez is right-wing and nationalistic, rather than far right.

And also the pure left right spectrum is screwed up anyways.

Agreed there.

[Valaran]

When faced by unfavorable situations.

Which is quite a major add-on to everyone becoming more extreme naturally (what you initially said).

Through my examination of several of my friends and society, society does seem to tend to shift to either the far-left and far-right a lot, especially during problems such as the current world situation.

That's anecdotal.

Europe is shifting farther to the right, and those people weren't always right-many were in the past centrists and even leftists.

This is not a point universal to humanity, however. Not all humans become more extreme as they age. In many cases, you'll find they moderate their views.

[Great Feng]

When faced by unfavorable situations.

Which is quite a major add-on to simply becoming more extreme naturally (what you initially said).

Through my examination of several of my friends and society, society does seem to tend to shift to either the far-left and far-right a lot, especially during problems such as the current world situation.

That's anecdotal.

Europe is shifting farther to the right, and those people weren't always right-many were in the past centrists and even leftists.

This is not a point universal to humanity, however. Not all humans become more extreme as they age. In many cases, you'll find they moderate their views.

Yes, but Europe seems to have massive influence over the world, despite being quite small, no doubt due to their former empires.
As such, if they become Far-Right, some nations will follow suit.
Simply put, the more extreme Europe becomes, the more extreme the rest of the world will become to oppose them or work with them.
The 1930's is a good example of this, as is the current situation in the Middle East, except using Iran, Russia, USA, and China instead of Europe.

[Novus America]

How about they have huge numbers of ballistic missile prepared to level our bases in the Pacific?

How about 'their economy relies so much on the US market that it'd collapse in an instant if they ever declared war on us or cut off trade'?

Perhaps their growing submarine fleet which has a numerical superiority in the region? The fact try are seizing the Spratly's with impunity from our allies and threatening to cut off our acces to the South China Sea? Again you head is in the sand.

Right, not like the Spratlys are disputed or anything. Nope, ROC, Vietnam, Malaysia, etc, are all absent from the Spratlys. Damn ChiComs, taking island chains unchallenged!

Obviously the Nazi policy was horrible regardless. But again bad =/= the Holocaust.

And yes Nazism was Natavist. They did not considere the Jews true natives, regardless of how long they lived there. Like Hamas, the IRA, ect. Pan Germanic is not mutually exclusive with Nativism. However if it was it would undermine your argument as the current far right is Nativist! Not pan Germanic!

The two aren't mutually exclusive, no.

But considering that Nazi Germany was not pursuing a 'only if born in Germany, you're a German' view of things and were, in fact, quite open to Germans from elsewhere joining the GLORIOUS THIRD REICH, calling it a nativist movement is kind of silly.

The Holocaust was exceptional in its scope. And most scapegoating of minorities dies not result in genocides. Certainly genocide can occur. But does not usually.

My point is not that the far right are good. They are not. My point is your screaming the far right is going to cause a second Holocaust is absurd. Most of the far right are not Neo Nazis nor genocidal. You can disagree with a group without resorting to hyperbole and strawmen.

There is no hyperbole nor strawmen. The far-right is cultivating the conditions for crimes against humanity. I don't claim that they have some grand plan to do so. I claim that's the natural result of what they're doing if not stopped.

Yeah, just like the UK and Germany had to much reliance on trade in the early 1900s to fight. And it is still a threat.

And yes the Chinese are seizing the Sparatly's with impunity. Nobody has any will to stop them. Those countries cannot or will not do anything to stop the Chinese. Who are now all but unstoppable.

I will concede the Nazis were not your standard Nativist group. But again that totally undermines your arguement! Most of the current European far right are very different than the Nazis.

And again to claim that the current rise in Nativism will cause a Holocaust if not stopped is hyberbole.

[UnjustlyBannedLlamas]

Oh, we're seriously doing this? Are we seriously just going to wheel out the "white genocide" myth and all that jazz?

Don't need to go to white-genocide to note that a substantial portion of the left wing has been using whiteness as an excuse to shout people down, enforce racial discrimination policies, supported minorities being given privileges, etc.

So you want minorities to be treated as second class citizens?

[Valaran]

Yes, but Europe seems to have massive influence over the world, despite being quite small, no doubt due to their former empires.

You stated that universally, people become more extreme as they age - Europe having 'massive influence' (that's debatable too, btw) is not a defence of that point, becuase it is then not universal, but specific to European influence.

So, did people not become more extreme in their views as they aged before Europe was the global hub?

Simply put, the more extreme Europe becomes, the more extreme the rest of the world will become to oppose them or work with them.

Firstly, that's another major caveat to your initial point. Secondly, this is not true at all. Did Brazil suddenly become more extreme becuase Germany did? Did the US? Did India? Hardly or it was limited to tiny minorities.

The 1930's is a good example of this, as is the current situation in the Middle East, except using Iran, Russia, USA, and China instead of Europe.

The 1930s is not an example of this, and you contradict your own point by saying the Middle East became more extreme to the actions of non-European nations. If its Europe that influences everyone else in extremism, why does it matter what China does? And if it does, then its not universal to mankind, is it?

[Aelex]

I'd give it about six years actually before it becomes a real possibility.

Meh. Unlikely.
We're gonna get Sarkozy during the elections next year because everyone hate Hollande, then we're gonna get Valls in the following elections five years later because everyone hate Sarkozy.
Valls will probably manage to keep himself into power for two quinquennat so Marine ain't gonna get actually into power for at least 16 years. After that, well, it's rather probable she would have scored high percentage of vote during the three elections so nobody know what may happen then.

[Conserative Morality]

Yeah, just like the UK and Germany had to much reliance on trade in the early 1900s to fight. And it is still a threat.

The UK and Germany's trade ties were nowhere near as massive, and countries were more autarkic then anyway. A better comparison would be "The US would have never taken Germany's side because its trade ties with the UK and France were too great".

And yes the Chinese are seizing the Sparatly's with impunity. Nobody has any will to stop them. Those countries cannot or will not do anything to stop the Chinese. Who are now all but unstoppable.

You've got the kind of view of Chinese power I associate more with Chinese nationalists than with Westerners. You gotta chill, man. China's nowhere near unstoppable.

I will concede the Nazis were not your standard Nativist group. But again that totally undermines your arguement! Most of the current European far right are very different than the Nazis.

Racist, violent, authoritarian... I don't really see the big difference.

And again to claim that the current rise in Nativism will cause a Holocaust if not stopped is hyberbole.

Right, point me in the direction where escalating violence against minorities did not lead to either the political situation radically changing or genocide. Give me a few examples.

[Great Feng]

Yes, but Europe seems to have massive influence over the world, despite being quite small, no doubt due to their former empires.

You stated that universally, people become more extreme as they age - Europe having 'massive influence' (that's debatable too, btw) is not a defence of that point, becuase it is then not universal, but specific to European influence.

So, did people not become more extreme in their views as they aged before Europe was the global hub?

Simply put, the more extreme Europe becomes, the more extreme the rest of the world will become to oppose them or work with them.

Firstly, that's another major caveat to your initial point. Secondly, this is not true at all. Did Brazil suddenly become more extreme becuase Germany did? Did the US? Did India? Hardly or it was limited to tiny minorities.

The 1930's is a good example of this, as is the current situation in the Middle East, except using Iran, Russia, USA, and China instead of Europe.

The 1930s is not an example of this, and you contradict your own point by saying the Middle East became more extreme to the actions of non-European nations. If its Europe that influences everyone else in extremism, why does it matter what China does? And if it does, then its not universal to mankind, is it?

Fine, my original argument was flawed and probably wrong.
Apologies.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'd give it about six years actually before it becomes a real possibility.

Meh. Unlikely.
We're gonna get Sarkozy during the elections next year because everyone hate Hollande, then we're gonna get Valls in the following elections five years later because everyone hate Sarkozy.
Valls will probably manage to keep himself into power for two quinquennat so Marine ain't gonna get actually into power for at least 16 years. After that, well, it's rather probable she would have scored high percentage of vote during the three elections so nobody know what may happen then.

We'll have another international economic crash before then, and it will delegitimize the globalist system even further.
The far-right doesn't need to actually win so much as present themselves as a government in waiting, and the current left and right wing parties as part of the same globalist establishment.
Trying to win in the meantime may actually prevent the sweep of the far-right through nation after nation.
An additional benefit to the globalist panic about the far-right is explicit and open collusion with eachother on how to keep them out. It makes the far-rights narrative of being The Real Opposition much more powerful.

Alternatively, the far-right may break through in one or two nations, but this wouldn't present the majority-west sweep that a second great recession would. If the majority of Europe goes far-right, and the US shifts to accomodate it in the spectrum after Trump, we'll see them cling to power for decades.

I wouldn't write off the National Front. They're playing the long game pretty well.

[Kelinfort]

I'd give it about six years actually before it becomes a real possibility.

Meh. Unlikely.
We're gonna get Sarkozy during the elections next year because everyone hate Hollande, then we're gonna get Valls in the following elections five years later because everyone hate Sarkozy.
Valls will probably manage to keep himself into power for two quinquennat so Marine ain't gonna get actually into power for at least 16 years. After that, well, it's rather probable she would have scored high percentage of vote during the three elections so nobody know what may happen then.

What if the situation improves? I mean Sarkozy got gored, but I wouldn't rule out the economy improving between now and 2022.

[Dushan]

Yes, but Europe seems to have massive influence over the world, despite being quite small, no doubt due to their former empires.
As such, if they become Far-Right, some nations will follow suit.
Simply put, the more extreme Europe becomes, the more extreme the rest of the world will become to oppose them or work with them.
The 1930's is a good example of this, as is the current situation in the Middle East, except using Iran, Russia, USA, and China instead of Europe.

To be fair, Europe's etablishment is still stuck in the post-neoliberal Age.

As for the rest of the World they keep doing their own stuff, mostly the current choice for them is between Populism (either right or left) and some sort of Liberalism, the later being supported by the EU. Then theres of course some Authoritarian Models around. (the russian and chinese model)

Islamic Countries have the bonus choice of trying to get as much fundamentalist as they please in the hope that it does them well.

[Chessmistress]

I'm glad that a party supporting Feminism and women's rights finally achieved power in Austria, smashing the patriarchal reactionary power who wished to limit abortion (by "giving women a mandatory time of reflection before being able to performing an abortion" - that was FPO political programme) and banning lesbians from marriage, adoptions and having artificial inseminations.
I'm also pretty sure that the Green Party will immediatly crack down on prostitution by adopting the Swedish Model, since they supported Swedish Model as European policy in the vote within EU Parliament on Februray 2014.

*Chokes*

Why?
Don't you think that legalised prostitution is violating human rights by increasing human trafficking, and also diminishing Austrian women?

[Novus America]

Yeah, just like the UK and Germany had to much reliance on trade in the early 1900s to fight. And it is still a threat.

The UK and Germany's trade ties were nowhere near as massive, and countries were more autarkic then anyway. A better comparison would be "The US would have never taken Germany's side because its trade ties with the UK and France were too great".

And yes the Chinese are seizing the Sparatly's with impunity. Nobody has any will to stop them. Those countries cannot or will not do anything to stop the Chinese. Who are now all but unstoppable.

You've got the kind of view of Chinese power I associate more with Chinese nationalists than with Westerners. You gotta chill, man. China's nowhere near unstoppable.

I will concede the Nazis were not your standard Nativist group. But again that totally undermines your arguement! Most of the current European far right are very different than the Nazis.

Racist, violent, authoritarian... I don't really see the big difference.

And again to claim that the current rise in Nativism will cause a Holocaust if not stopped is hyberbole.

Right, point me in the direction where escalating violence against minorities did not lead to either the political situation radically changing or genocide. Give me a few examples.

Actually they trade ties were quite massive. There are many other examples (Napoleon) of trade ties failing to stop war.

And who pray tell will stop China? Especially in the Spratlys? Right now China does whatever they want and nobody does anything but bitch. Your refusal to see China as a threat is simply delusional.

You relgious faith in trade (which ironically created the Chinese threat in the first place) will not protect us. Trade with China makes China a threat, not the reverse.

The Nazis were more than merely racist, violent and authoritarian! Godwin again!

Not every racist or authoritarian is a Nazi! And source the escalating violence against minorities.
And political instability and change already hit Europe. So I guess no genocide? The idea that a move to the right automatically equals genocide is absurd.

Again most cases the "far right" does not commit genocide. Where is the genocide in Hungary?

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

When semantics is relevant to the argument, like when an opponent claims you made a point you didn't make because they don't understand basic grammar? Nothing wrong with that.

You asked when a country was considered The West. Both countries are considered to be part of The West. Admittedly, Italy having a better claim than Japan. Now you're backtracking. You're arguing semantics without relevancy.

'no u r the irrational side stop ad hominem'

And yet more mocking. One wonders when you'll start using facts.

Source it.

Source... what, exactly? I've no numbers or articles I'm arguing against. You made a claim; I made a counterclaim. I feel no need to dig around my disorganized-ass source folder for someone whom I don't think is taking the argument seriously.[/quote]
http://unctad.org/en/pages/PublicationW ... tionid=588
China-Africa trade growth expected to reach $1.7 triillion by 2030

http://thediplomat.com/2015/12/the-new- ... -to-watch/
China-Africa military cooperation

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... rica-14435
China military base Africa

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q ... GMuUKNe6Uw
China pivot towards Africa threat to US

So on. So forth.

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

*Chokes*

Why?
Don't you think that legalised prostitution is violating human rights by increasing human trafficking, and also diminishing Austrian women?

I firmly believe prostitution shouldn't be legalized, mostly because it's a disservice to sex workers, who could accomplish much more given proper education and means.

[Denbigh]

Post removed.