Austrian right-wing candidate barely loses..

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

Japan an Italy are part of the West.

And it is an indipustable fact the China is growing ecnomically far faster than the West. Your head in the sand routine does not change it.

And sure the far right has no solutions. Neither does the left, nor the current center.

The far-right solution is a return to nationalism, or at least Westernism with preferential treatment of other Western nations in terms of tariffs and such, halting Islamic immigration and implementing policies to convince the ones here already to leave, and hoping that increased wages will mean people start families earlier.

At this point, the far-right espouses mostly Westernism. Most parties are pan-European.

[Great Feng]

Pity...so much for a cool WW3 scenario I could have made using that as one of the starts of a chain reaction of Right-Wing Candidates coming to power.

[MERIZoC]

Fun fact, the Nazis considered Native Americans part of the Aryan race. Just throwing that out there.

No, they considered Indians (from India) as Aryans.

Well, they're technically not wrong.

[Valaran]

What country other than Austria has the strongest chance of electing a far-right leader like this?

Russia, Hungary, Israel, United States...

Russia won't; Jobbik is admittedly close to Fidez in current polls; really?; Trump isn't directly far right, though I can see arguments being made for his ideology being so..

A lot of this depends on your definition of far-right however.

[Koninkrijk Zeeland]

"Van der Bellen"? Who is he, some immigrant?

Probably a secret agent of Geert Wilders.

[Conserative Morality]

After WWII and literally one of the founders of what is considered the West.

Puerto Rico is poor; guess the USA is poor.

Lol. "China gaining influence and dominance of Africa is not proof that China has growing influence in Africa."

Do you have reading problems or something? "Backlash against Chinese influence as China seeks to expand into a sustainable and exploitative model of economic interaction in Africa is not proof that China's influence is in any way a growing threat in Africa."

What? The fact that you honestly don't see the irony of what you're doing is actually really funny. It used to be that the Left won on morality and fact, but now you can't even claim either.

Yes, yes, we know, treating Muslims like people is bad, we get it.

[Ostroeuropa]

The far-right solution is a return to nationalism, or at least Westernism with preferential treatment of other Western nations in terms of tariffs and such, halting Islamic immigration and implementing policies to convince the ones here already to leave, and hoping that increased wages will mean people start families earlier.

At this point, the far-right espouses mostly Westernism. Most parties are pan-European.

Which is nice. I suspect the left wing didn't envision uniting the far-right in that manner.

[Novus America]

Russia, Hungary, Israel, United States...

Russia won't; Jobbik is admittedly close to Fidez in current polls; really?; Trump isn't directly far right, though I can see arguments being made for his ideology being so..

A lot of this depends on your definition of far-right however.

Russia and Hungary are already ruled by the far right. Fidez is far far right. Jobbik straight up Nazis.

[Starkeland]

Umm the far right are not calling for a Holocaust of Muslims. Banning Muslim immigration and expelling Muslims who were not born their might be something you disagree with. It might be bad. But it is not comparable to the Holocaust.

Do you know the history of Jewish persecution in Nazi Germany?

It didn't start with death camps.

It didn't, but as I recall the Germans weren't exactly expelling Jews from their borders either at the time. It was far too convenient to have them around as scapegoats.

Protip: Earth has plenty of space and with advanced production techniques, we haven't even met the theoretical limits of resource production.

"Resource production"

Resource extraction. We're a long way away from manufacturing the things we face shortages of in the next century alone.

You have any examples that we can look at? I'm not sure what you're referring to and I'd like more information.

Really? So your response isn't with a factual statement to counter my argument, but instead lol. That's fine. Those in Pompeii must have been feeling awfully silly as well.

For future reference, most of the U.S. Foreign Council calls China a threat to U.S. power in the Asian sphere. Further, the Chinese system of Authoritarian Capitalism is influencing schools across the international world. Chinese influence in Africa is growing as well, with the Chinese enjoying near dominance in some areas.

China isn't even a threat to US influence in the Asian sphere, and it isn't a serious threat on its own. China has been pushing all of its neighbors into Uncle Sam's loving arms for a good three, four decades now.

It's also one of the largest economic powers in the world, and has the largest active military in the world to boot. Dismissing it out of hand is a bad idea, especially when there's an increased push economically to associate with China. Australia comes to mind as an example to the contrary.

the murder of minorities, and any of these others things you seem to associate with far-right politics is way more ridiculous than any of my assertions, which by the way seem to all be true.

People who need to talk up the 'truth' of their points rarely have any truth to impart. Just insecurity.

And, of course, far-right murders of minorities right now aren't at all indicative of what its supporters will stand by once they're elected into power, right?

...

Right?

Without the numbers to make a judgement either way, this doesn't stand up under its own weight. It certainly might be possible, but we can't make that judgement without fact. Otherwise we bleed into the realm of opinion, and not fact. But I digress- where is the data that you are referring to regarding minority murders by the far-right?

[Conserative Morality]

China is a major threat to the US in Asia. To deny that is absurd.

Tell me, in what way does China pose a threat to us in Asia? Be specific.

And I know the history of the Holocaust. Had the US been willing to take in the Jews it could have been largely averted.

If by 'largely averted' you mean 'only caused mass expulsion and impoverishment of Jews all across Europe, everywhere from Poland and Russia to France and Italy, assuming that already-state-sponsored violence against them didn't kill them first', then you're correct.

If you mean anything other than that, you're wrong.

But not every natavist movement becomes the Holocaust. Only one did. The Holocaust was the exception, not the norm.

...

Nazism was not a nativist movement. Most German Jews had lived there for generations. The Know-Nothings were a nativist movement. Nazism was pan-Germanic in scope. I can name you plenty of right-wing genocides that started with the scapegoating of minorities. The Holocaust was not an exception; it's just the one everyone remembers.

[Imperializt Russia]

Before making any judgement on this, we should also consider that only in 2015 there have been more than 90 thousands requests of asylum coming from refugees.. that is to say more than 1% of Austria's own population only last year.
The situation worsen if we consider the role of UE in the managing of the refugee crisis, that is to say no contribution at all.
Personally I find only natural and more than reasonable that many people consider Austria's first duty to be concerned about its own citizen and rely on the only candidate who could have achieved so; I wish the best of luck to Mr. Van Der Bellen but the fact that he was supported by the “traditional” parties and that he personally encouraged people to vote for him because he was the lesser of two evil, certainly does not bode well for him. I am afraid that he was elected only out of fear for his adversary rather than because of his programs and promises.

Implying that's not a valid reason.

[Corrian]

Looks like this thread went off the rails fast

[Kelinfort]

Look, I take the position respect the religious, disrespect the religion. I have no problem with Muslims (unless they're fundamentalists), but I do have a problem with Islam and any other religion for that matter. I will always speak out against organized religions and convince people to become less religious overall.


This is what Europe and its nations need to do.

[PaNTuXIa]

American Indian master race!

Fun fact, the Nazis considered Native Americans part of the Aryan race. Just throwing that out there.

Source?

[Great Feng]

Personally though, this is a narrow victory against the Right. The Right will surely come back again to gain power.
Fascism and Far-Right sentiments will rise again, mark my words. Communism was but a temporary threat that was unsustainable and only made popular due the Soviets and their massive support against Nazi Germany and them supporting Chinese Communist Rebels.
The Soviet Union was the main reason Communism survived so long-it's military and economic muscle.
Fascism and Capitalism don't need that. As such, the Fascists and Xenophobes despite only having ruled a short time in the 1930's in the past, is going to be the far more enduring threat.
Which is why we need a new idealogy that's a mix of a few...perhaps my custom idealogy which I'm currently fleshing out.

[Novus America]

You, of course, have no proof of this "Muslim Holocaust" occuring, nor being possible of occurring. This is exactly what Ralk is pointing out. That is a logical leap without basis, and, as he said, scaremongering. Merely dismissing his point as anti-Muslim rhetoric doesn't work as a response.

So let me get this straight:

Calls for expelling Muslims from their countries and preventing further Muslims from entering

Treating Muslims like a hive-mind and claiming they're incompatible with Western values

Increasing violence against Muslims

Open hate towards Islam as a whole

Bans on the ability of Muslims to practice their religion freely

That doesn't at all bode poorly for what the far-right would do should they cement their grip on power?

None of these are neccesarily good things and I do not agree with the far right on many things. But these do not equal the Holocaust. You know the works is not black and white. There are an infinite variety of possibilities. Not just status quo v Holocaust 2.0.

[Infected Mushroom]

Damn it. This is bad.

[Novus America]

Personally though, this is a narrow victory against the Right. The Right will surely come back again to gain power.
Fascism and Far-Right sentiments will rise again, mark my words. Communism was but a temporary threat that was unsustainable and only made popular due the Soviets and their massive support against Nazi Germany and them supporting Chinese Communist Rebels.
The Soviet Union was the main reason Communism survived so long-it's military and economic muscle.
Fascism and Capitalism don't need that. As such, the Fascists and Xenophobes despite only having ruled a short time in the 1930's in the past, is going to be the far more enduring threat.
Which is why we need a new idealogy that's a mix of a few...perhaps my custom idealogy which I'm currently fleshing out.

Actually I came to the same conclusion and have started making my own ideology as well.

[Valaran]

Russia won't; Jobbik is admittedly close to Fidez in current polls; really?; Trump isn't directly far right, though I can see arguments being made for his ideology being so..

A lot of this depends on your definition of far-right however.

Russia and Hungary are already ruled by the far right. Fidez is far far right. Jobbik straight up Nazis.

Putin is not the Russian far-right lol (though elements of United Russia are). Zhirinovsky is much closer to that bill.

Fidez is not far right by Hungarian standards. By your standards, sure.

[Great Feng]

Personally though, this is a narrow victory against the Right. The Right will surely come back again to gain power.
Fascism and Far-Right sentiments will rise again, mark my words. Communism was but a temporary threat that was unsustainable and only made popular due the Soviets and their massive support against Nazi Germany and them supporting Chinese Communist Rebels.
The Soviet Union was the main reason Communism survived so long-it's military and economic muscle.
Fascism and Capitalism don't need that. As such, the Fascists and Xenophobes despite only having ruled a short time in the 1930's in the past, is going to be the far more enduring threat.
Which is why we need a new idealogy that's a mix of a few...perhaps my custom idealogy which I'm currently fleshing out.

Actually I came to the same conclusion and have started making my own ideology as well.

perhaps we can work together?

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

After WWII and literally one of the founders of what is considered the West.

Puerto Rico is poor; guess the USA is poor.

What? You asked when was Japan and Italy considered part of the West. Italy and it's ancestor Rome are considered to be a founding influence of the West. Japan circa 1867 started adopting to Western influences and at this point has a culture that is a mixture of both West and East, but there extremely close cooperation with the West has belied the title of being part of the West.

Lol. "China gaining influence and dominance of Africa is not proof that China has growing influence in Africa."

Do you have reading problems or something? "Backlash against Chinese influence as China seeks to expand into a sustainable and exploitative model of economic interaction in Africa is not proof that China's influence is in any way a growing threat in Africa."

Fun. Hostility. Ad hominem. Not exactly the first reaction someone confident in his own side should have, when faced with a rational response.

Backlash against Chinese influence as China seeks to expand

China has an ambition to expand.
China expands.
There is backlash because China is expanding.
China is expanding, there is backlash.
Because China is expanding, there is backlash.
China, expanding into Africa, has led to backlash.

What? The fact that you honestly don't see the irony of what you're doing is actually really funny. It used to be that the Left won on morality and fact, but now you can't even claim either.

Yes, yes, we know, treating Muslims like people is bad, we get it.

10/10 Response. Limiting and filtering immigration from countries is just like the Holocaust.

[Conserative Morality]

It didn't, but as I recall the Germans weren't exactly expelling Jews from their borders either at the time. It was far too convenient to have them around as scapegoats.

You need to polish up your Holocaust history.

You have any examples that we can look at? I'm not sure what you're referring to and I'd like more information.

At current resource consumption rates, things like fossil fuels (necessary for more than just energy production, mind you), uranium (which is going the way of oil - what's left will become harder to extract a la shale and fracking), and, concerningly, fresh water, will all be in short supply in the (relatively) near future. We already see this even in first-world countries as droughts and unusual weather fuck with the local environment.

I wouldn't say I'm dismissing it. It's not powerless. But it's also not a threat to our power. China lacks serious force projection capabilities, is building economic growth on a bubble feared and is hated or feared by most of its neighbors.

Page 9 in particular regarding my point, page 14 for statistics.

[Chessmistress]

I'm glad that a party supporting Feminism and women's rights finally achieved power in Austria, smashing the patriarchal reactionary power who wished to limit abortion (by "giving women a mandatory time of reflection before being able to performing an abortion" - that was FPO political programme) and banning lesbians from marriage, adoptions and having artificial inseminations.
I'm also pretty sure that the Green Party will immediatly crack down on prostitution by adopting the Swedish Model, since they supported Swedish Model as European policy in the vote within EU Parliament on Februray 2014.

[Conserative Morality]

What? You asked when was Japan and Italy considered part of the West.

No, I asked when they became 'the West'.

The definite article exists for a reason.

Fun. Hostility. Ad hominem. Not exactly the first reaction someone confident in his own side should have, when faced with a rational response.

Shame we can't seem to test that with a rational response.

Backlash against Chinese influence as China seeks to expand

China has an ambition to expand.
China expands.
There is backlash because China is expanding.
China is expanding, there is backlash.
Because China is expanding, there is backlash.
China, expanding into Africa, has led to backlash.

China, along with the rest of the world, is expanding into Africa

Chinese influence has not meaningfully increased in recent years and has, in fact, begun to decline.

Therefore, China does not have growing influence in Africa.

[Ralkovian Grand Island]

China is a major threat to the US in Asia. To deny that is absurd.

Tell me, in what way does China pose a threat to us in Asia? Be specific.

A threat to democracy and cooperation in Asia under Western Guidance. Control of World Markets.

And I know the history of the Holocaust. Had the US been willing to take in the Jews it could have been largely averted.

If by 'largely averted' you mean 'only caused mass expulsion and impoverishment of Jews all across Europe, everywhere from Poland and Russia to France and Italy, assuming that already-state-sponsored violence against them didn't kill them first', then you're correct.

If you mean anything other than that, you're wrong.

Fastidious expulsion of criminals and illegal migrants is not state sponsored violence.
Control of borders is not state sponsored violence.

You are not the moral side of the argument, you're just the irrational side.

But not every natavist movement becomes the Holocaust. Only one did. The Holocaust was the exception, not the norm.

...

Nazism was not a nativist movement. Most German Jews had lived there for generations. The Know-Nothings were a nativist movement. Nazism was pan-Germanic in scope. I can name you plenty of right-wing genocides that started with the scapegoating of minorities. The Holocaust was not an exception; it's just the one everyone remembers.

[/quote]

And left-wing authoritarianism resulted in just as much violence.