Necessitating Violence

[Traditionalism]

You don't even get it, do you? The other person said the Germans were minced. Didn't happen. Soviets lost over 10 million germans under 5. God don't you people read anything? All you seem to do is take things out of context.

The Soviets and allies on the Eastern Front lost about 8.9 million soldiers as KIA and MIA.

The Nazis and allies lost just under 5 million men, and saw nearly as many (about 4.6 million) captured.

The Nazis also got outmaneuvered repeatedly, handily got outfought at Kursk and a thousand other places, and were rolled back from the outskirts of Moscow into the very heart of the Reich.

There is no conceivable interpretation of events where the Nazis did anything but lose on the Eastern Front.

Nothing conceivable alright, not like they ever got close to Moscow or St Petersburg.

[Ardavia]

Yeah. If the Nazis had gotten their way there'd now be a lot less Europeans left alive to be raped. Because they'd kind of planned to de- and re-populate (however the fuck they thought themselves capable of doing that) much of Eastern Europe, and fuck, in some plans, even parts of France.

No matter how you spin it, it continues to sound bad. Perhaps increasing the amount of nazism in Europe's post-45 history isn't the best idea, either?

That plan doesn't sound bad at all.

You'd be the kind of edgy fascist to call a plan that literally called for the depopulation and enslavement of the entire population of Eastern Europe followed by the resettlement of Germans into the area "not bad".

[Valaran]

That plan doesn't sound bad at all.

You'd be the kind of edgy fascist to call a plan that literally called for the depopulation and enslavement of the entire population of Eastern Europe followed by the resettlement of "Aryans" into the area "not bad".

Its ok though, he's not a traditionalist.

[Traditionalism]

That plan doesn't sound bad at all.

You'd be the kind of edgy fascist to call a plan that literally called for the depopulation and enslavement of the entire population of Eastern Europe followed by the resettlement of Germans into the area "not bad".

Yes. Only edge. No genuine. Because I'm a liberal in my safe bubble where no one else exists except for other liberals :::::DDDD

[Mefpan]

The Soviets and allies on the Eastern Front lost about 8.9 million soldiers as KIA and MIA.

The Nazis and allies lost just under 5 million men, and saw nearly as many (about 4.6 million) captured.

The Nazis also got outmaneuvered repeatedly, handily got outfought at Kursk and a thousand other places, and were rolled back from the outskirts of Moscow into the very heart of the Reich.

There is no conceivable interpretation of events where the Nazis did anything but lose on the Eastern Front.

Nothing conceivable alright, not like they ever got close to Moscow or St Petersburg.

You get to Moscow and St. Petersburg, there's still thousands of square kilometers of Russia to take.
The Russians get to Berlin? Well, fuck, there's already some fucking Yankees on the other side of that river over there, AND WHAT THE FUCK IS WENCK DOING WITH HIS ARMY.

[Conserative Morality]

Oh no, my enemy doesn't think I have character. WHAT WILL I EVER DO

Fascism requires others, even those who are not fascists of the State, to respect it, because the manifestation of will that is the essence of fascism commands respect effortlessly through virtue and self-expression springing from the manifestation of the inherent power of the truths espoused by fascism.

If your enemies don't respect you, chances are you're a shitty fascist.

[Ardavia]

The Soviets and allies on the Eastern Front lost about 8.9 million soldiers as KIA and MIA.

The Nazis and allies lost just under 5 million men, and saw nearly as many (about 4.6 million) captured.

The Nazis also got outmaneuvered repeatedly, handily got outfought at Kursk and a thousand other places, and were rolled back from the outskirts of Moscow into the very heart of the Reich.

There is no conceivable interpretation of events where the Nazis did anything but lose on the Eastern Front.

Nothing conceivable alright, not like they ever got close to Moscow or St Petersburg.

They got within 50 kilometers of Moscow. Then they got halted, turned back, and beaten right the fuck back to Berlin.

They also got within sight of St. Petersburg, and then spent like two years trying and failing to starve the city into submission before getting BTFO by the forces of the Leningrad and Volkhov Fronts in 1944.

[Not a Bang but a Whimper]

That plan doesn't sound bad at all.

You'd be the kind of edgy fascist to call a plan that literally called for the depopulation and enslavement of the entire population of Eastern Europe followed by the resettlement of Germans into the area "not bad".

We're talking about someone who quoted the Turner Diaries and thought it was a good ethical appeal.

[Valaran]

Is it not right, then, to react to the causes and perpetrators of violence with violence? Is the historic bloc is to be replaced, is it not necessary to act on it as it has acted on us?

You know, I've suddenly started to see your point given a certain fascist movement website.

[Traditionalism]

Oh no, my enemy doesn't think I have character. WHAT WILL I EVER DO

Fascism requires others, even those who are not fascists of the State, to respect it, because the manifestation of will that is the essence of fascism commands respect effortlessly through virtue and self-expression springing from the manifestation of the inherent power of the truths espoused by fascism.

If your enemies don't respect you, chances are you're a shitty fascist.

>Fascism requires others, even those who are not fascists of the State, to respect it,
no. It doesn't require anything of others except their obedience or elimination.

>If your enemies don't respect you, chances are you're a shitty fascist.

"As I turned back and realized the Jews in the camp didn't respect me, I knew I failed my job as a camp guard."

YEP, TOTALLY RIGHT MAN

[Ardavia]

You'd be the kind of edgy fascist to call a plan that literally called for the depopulation and enslavement of the entire population of Eastern Europe followed by the resettlement of Germans into the area "not bad".

Yes. Only edge. No genuine. Because I'm a liberal in my safe bubble where no one else exists except for other liberals :::::DDDD

Isn't it nice to be able to express your views freely with no risk of repression for them? You can thank fascism for that, because it and systems like it through history have showed what a bad idea they are.

I'm sure you imagine you'd be part of the privileged class in the political system of your dreams too.

[Valaran]

I'm sure you imagine you'd be part of the privileged class in the political system of your dreams too.

"I am the senate!!1!1"

[Kubra]

You can dress up how you want, but the Germans didn't kill enough to win, did they? They lost, and badly.

Its sort of cute trying to watch you claim the fascists succeeded becuase 'they killed people', however.

Never said they succeeded. You need to pay more attention to what you type. You said they were minced, quite the opposite, they fucking destroyed the bolsheviks. Doesn't matter who won. Bolsheviks lost over 10 million while germans lost just under 5 million. It's clear who was minced, regardless of who won the war, which wouldn't have been possible without the lend lease program.

war outcome =/= casualty counting

[Conserative Morality]

>Fascism requires others, even those who are not fascists of the State, to respect it,
no. It doesn't require anything of others except their obedience or elimination.

Someone's a shitty fascist. And it's not me. Jesus, have you even studied the philosophy of fascists from the 20s-40s?

"As I turned back and realized the Jews in the camp didn't respect me, I knew I failed my job as a camp guard."

YEP, TOTALLY RIGHT MAN

Completely right. The Nazis were shitty fascists. They valued materialistic gain and some weird racial hygeine thing higher than the spirit of expansion and victory which must drive a fascist State.

[Traditionalism]

Yes. Only edge. No genuine. Because I'm a liberal in my safe bubble where no one else exists except for other liberals :::::DDDD

It must be so nice to be able to express your views freely with no risk of repression for them. You can thank fascism for that, because it and systems like it through history have showed what a bad idea they are.

I'm sure you imagine you'd be part of the privileged class in the political system of your dreams too.

>It must be so nice to be able to express your views freely with no risk of repression for them.

Truly a sign of the impotence of liberalism and democracy.

>I'm sure you imagine you'd be part of the privileged class in the political system of your dreams too

No shit. Becoming a leader takes years and years of reading, doing, Feeling, Contemplation, racking up life experiences. That's why I am where I am now, and why things are moving forward.

[Traditionalism]

>Fascism requires others, even those who are not fascists of the State, to respect it,
no. It doesn't require anything of others except their obedience or elimination.

Someone's a shitty fascist. And it's not me. Jesus, have you even studied the philosophy of fascists from the 20s-40s?

"As I turned back and realized the Jews in the camp didn't respect me, I knew I failed my job as a camp guard."

YEP, TOTALLY RIGHT MAN

Completely right. The Nazis were shitty fascists. They valued materialistic gain and some weird racial hygeine thing higher than the spirit of expansion and victory which must drive a fascist State.

>Completely right. The Nazis were shitty fascists. They valued materialistic gain and some weird racial hygeine thing higher than the spirit of expansion and victory which must drive a fascist State.

Oh, you don't know what Fascism is.

[Conserative Morality]

Truly a sign of the impotence of liberalism and democracy.

Considering that that's the *goal* of democracy, that fascists are weaker than ever, and that free expression was actually championed by several Italian Fascists because of their belief that the intellectual superiority of fascism would cause it to inevitably eventually destroy all other ideologies by openly challenging them in the minds of the people and destroying them...

Not really.

[Conserative Morality]

Oh, you don't know what Fascism is.

No, I do know what fascism is. I was a fascist sympathizer for a time. I frequented a fascist forum. I had fascist friends. I educated myself on the specifics of fascism. You seem to have failed to have done so, instead latching onto a sort of liberal pop-culture version of fascism. Ironic, really.

[Ardavia]

Truly a sign of the impotence of liberalism and democracy.

Truly, it's a sign of impotence to allow people to express their views even if they run counter to the mainstream.

Which is why so many of those dictatorships that try to suppress popular dissent end up collapsing, while democracy has been going strong for hundreds of years (thousands, even) and just keeps on trucking.

[Traditionalism]

Truly a sign of the impotence of liberalism and democracy.

Truly, it's a sign of impotence to allow people to express their views even if they run counter to the mainstream.

Which is why so many of those dictatorships that try to suppress popular dissent end up collapsing, while democracy has been going strong for hundreds of years (thousands, even) and just keeps on trucking.

Yeah that's why, not foreign intervention or coalitions manipulating economies.

[Traditionalism]

Oh, you don't know what Fascism is.

No, I do know what fascism is. I was a fascist sympathizer for a time. I frequented a fascist forum. I had fascist friends. I educated myself on the specifics of fascism. You seem to have failed to have done so, instead latching onto a sort of liberal pop-culture version of fascism. Ironic, really.

Nope. As I've posted before, these are the books I have read or am reading or will read. I know what Fascism is.

Bow and Club (Julius Evola)
Castes and Races (collection of articles by Julius Evola, Frithjof Schuon and René Guénon)
Hindu Castes Doctrine (René Guénon)
Castes Doctrine (Julius Evola)
The purpose of castes (Frithjof Schuon)
Regression of castes (Julius Evola)
The purpose of races (Frithjof Schuon)
The Elements of Racial Education (Julius Evola, this exists as a book on its own)
Fascism Viewed from the Right (Julius Evola)
For My Legionaries (Corneliu Zelea Codreanu)
German National-Socialism (Nikolay Vasilyevich Ustryalov)
Heathen Imperialism (Julius Evola)
Italian Fascism (Nikolay Vasilyevich Ustryalov)
Men Among the Ruins (Julius Evola)
(The) Mystery of the Grail (Julius Evola)
(The) Metaphysics of Sex (Julius Evola)
Metaphysics of War (Julius Evola)
National-Bolshevism (a book that compiles together 2 major collections of articles by Nikolay Vasilyevich Ustryalov as well as several fragments from his diary)
In the struggle for Russia (collection of articles)
Beneath the sign of the Revolution (collection of articles)
Nationalistic Revolution (collection of articles by Ernst Jünger)
Revolution and Idea (Revolution und Idee; Völkischer beobachter, September 23/24, 1923)
Revolution and the front-line soldier (Revolution und Frontsoldatentum; Gewissen, August 31st, 1925)
Separation and connections (Abgrenzung und verbindung; Die Standarte, September 13th, 1925)
The front-line soldier and the Wilhelm era (Der Frontsoldat und die wilhelminische Zeit; Die Standarte, September 20th, 1925)
Technical battle (Die Materialschlacht; Die Standarte, October 4th, 1925)
War as an internal experience (Der Krieg als inneres Erlebnis; Die Standarte, October 11th, 1925)
The Machine (Die Machine; Die Standarte, December 13th, 1925)
Foreword to Friedrich Georg Jünger’s book “March of Nationalism” (Aufmarsch des Nationalismus; 1926)
Blood (Das Blut; Standarte, April 29th, 1926)
Will (Der Wille; Standarte, May 6th, 1926)
Character (Der Charakter; Standarte, May 13th, 1926)
Nationalistic Revolution (Die nationalistische Revolution; Standarte, May 20th, 1926)
Unite! (Schließt euch zusammen!; Standarte, June 3rd, 1926)
Unite! Final word (Schließt euch zusammen! Schlusswort; Standarte, July 22nd, 1926)
Time of Fate (Die Schicksalszeit; Arminius, Januar 2nd, 1927)
New Nationalism (Der neue Nationalismus; Völkischer Beobachter, January 23/24, 1927)
Nationalism and modern life (Nationalismus und modernes Leben; Arminius, February 20th, 1927)
Nationalism and National-Socialism (Nationalismus und Nationalsozialismus; Arminius, March 27th, 1927)
About Spirit (Vom Geiste; Widerstand, April 1927)
Our Stance (Unsere Kampfstellung; Arminius, June 5th, 1927)
Afterword to “Nobody is forgotten!” (Die Unvergessenen; 1928)
Foreword to “There will be aviation!” (Luftfahrt ist not!; 1928)
What we carry into the new year (Zum Jahreswechsel; Der Vormarsch, January 15th, 1928)
"Nationalism" and Nationalism ("Nationalismus" und Nationalismus; Das Tagebuch, September 21st, 1929)
Foreword to “Struggle for the Reich” (Der Kampf um das Reich; 1929)
Final word to one article (Schlußwort zu einem Aufsatze; Widerstand, January 1930)
Foreword to “War and Warrior” (Krieg und Krieger; 1930)
Total Mobilization (Die totale Mobilmachung; published in “War and Warrior”, 1930)
On Nationalism and the Jewish question (Über Nationalismus und Judenfrage; Süddeutsche Monatshefte, September 1930)
War and Photo (Krieg und Lichtbild; from the photo-album “The Face of World War” [Das Antlitz des Weltkrieges], 1930)
War and Technology (Krieg und Technik; from the photo-album “The Face of World War” [Das Antlitz des Weltkrieges], 1930)
The bigger picture of War (Das große Bild des Krieges; from the photo-album “The Face of World War” [Das Antlitz des Weltkrieges], 1930)
The Indestructible (Das Unzerstörbare; Das Reich, October 1930)
Foreword to the “Here speaks the enemy” photo-album (Hier spricht der Feind; 1931)
"On Danger" [Über die Gefahr] a foreword to “Dangerous Moment” photo-album (Der gefährliche Augenblick; 1931)
Foreword to “The Changing world” photo-album (Die veränderte Welt; 1933)
Technology and Life form(Die Technik und ihre Zuordnung; Münchener Neueste nachrichten, March 4th, 1933)
Dusk or new Order? (Untergang oder neue Ordnung; Deutsches Volkstum, May 1933)
On Russian Nationalism (Ivan Alexandrovich Ilyin)
Prussianism and Socialism (Oswald Spengler)
Paris Diaries [Strahlungen] (Ernst Jünger)
Revolt Against the Modern World (Julius Evola)
Ride the Tiger (Julius Evola)
Storm of Steel (Ernst Jünger)
Solar Empire (collection of articles by Julius Evola)
Thule: mystery of the prehistoric Arctic (Il mystero dell’Artide preistorica: Thule // Il orriere Padano (Ferrara), January 13th, 1934)
Rome and the “solar christmas” of North-aryan Tradition (Roma e il “Natale solare” della tradizione nordico-aria // La Difesa della razza, December 20th, 1940)
"Regnum" and Caesar spirituality (Sul “regnum” e sulla spiritualità di Cesare // La Vita Italiana, October 1934)
Seafaring as a heroic symbol (Il navigare come simbolo eroico // Il Regime Fascista, April 26th, 1933)
Symbolism of the Eagle (Il simbolismo dell’aquila // Vita Nova, November 30th, 1941)
Eugene of Savoy (Eugenio di Savoia // La Stampa, May 21st, 1943)
Overcoming activism (Superamento dell’attivismo // Il regime Fascista, January 18th, 1933)
Misunderstandings of new paganism (L’equivoco del nuovo paganesimo // Bibliografia fascista, n.2 / 1936)
Spiritual foundations of the Japanese imperial idea (Basi spirituali dell’idea imperiale nipponica // Asiatica, n.6 / 1940)
Spiritual premises of an Empire (Sulle premesse spirituali dell’impero, 1937)
Imperial universality and nationalistic particularism (Universalità imperiale e particolarismo nazionalistico // Vita Italiana, April 1931)
Napola (Le “Napolas” // Il Regime Fascista, May 27th, 1941)
Purpose of the SS: an Order and political elite (Il significato delle SS: Ordini ed élites politiche)
Critical remarks on national-socialist racism (Osservazioni critiche sul “razzismo” Nazionalsocialistia // La Vita Italiana, November 1933)
Misunderstandings of scientific racism (L’equivoco del razzismo scientifico // La Vita Italiana, September 15th, 1942)
Mussolini and racism (Mussolini e il razzismo // Il Meridiano d’Italia, December 1951)
Racism and other “horrors” (Il razzismo e altri orrori // L’italiano, May 1959)
On Youth (Contro i giovani // Totalità, July 10th, 1967)
Italian women (Le ragazze italiane // Il Roma, August 24th, 1952)
Religion and sex (Religione e sesso // Il popolo Italiano, September 8th, 1957)
The world and the Dark Age (Il mondo è piombato in un’età oscura // Il Roma, January 14th, 1954)
Considerations on the oblique man (Considerazioni sull’uomo obliquo // Rivolta ideale, May 29th, 1952)
The scourge of personalism (Il flagello del personalismo // Rivolta ideale, 1951)
Personality and the impersonal principle (Personalità ed impersonalità // Ordine Nuovo, May 1956)
Desires of Spanish Falangism (Che cosa vuole il “falangismo” spagniolo // Lo Stato, January 1937)
So spoke Codreanu (Così diceva Codreanu // Roma, December 12th, 1958)
Nationalism and asceticism: the Iron Guard (Nazionalismo e ascesi: la Guardia di Ferro // Corriere Padano, April 14th, 1938)
Hitler and secret societies (Hitler e le società segrete // Il Conciliatore, October 1971)
Joseph de Maistre - teacher of the Right thought (Maestri della Destra: Joseph de Maistre // Il Conciliatore, November 1972)
René Guénon, East and West (René Guénon, East and West // East and West, IV, January 4th, 1954)
Tradition and Europe (collection of articles by Julius Evola)
The Sacred in the Roman Tradition (Sul “sacro” nella tradizione romana // UR, m III, 1930)
Rome against the Etruscans (Corriere Padano, November 27th, 1938)
Emperor Julian (Roma, March 17th, 1971)
About the Mithraic Mysteries (Vie della Tradizione, 1971)
The Path of Enlightenment According to the Mithraic Mysteries (Ultra, 1926)
Limits to the regularity of Initiation (KRUR, 1929)
Swastika as a symbol of the Pole (Das Hakenkreuz als polares Symbol // Hochschule und Ausland, 1934/35)
The Sacred character of Royalty (Der sakrale Charakter des Königtums // Deutsches Adelsblatt, March 4th, 1933)
Mysteries of the Grail and the Imperial Idea (Gralsmysterium und Kaisergedanke // Geist der Zeit, #3, 1939, S. 145ff)
The Underworld of the Christian Middle Ages (Die Unterwelt des christlichen Mittelalters // Europäische Revue, IX, 7.1933, S.409ff.; 8.1933, S.549ff)
The Red Banner (Die rote Fahne // Der Ring (Berlin), #52, 29.12.1933, S.837ff)
Overcoming the “Overman” (Überwindung des “Übermenschen" // Deutsches Volkstum, #3, 1936)
Nietzsche: Nihilism and the Meaning of Life ("Nichilismo e senso della vita in Nietzsche" in the Italian translation of the Robert Reininger book "Friedrich Nietzsches Kampf um den Sinn des Lebens", 1971)
About the Mystery of the Fall (Über das Gehemnis des Verfalls // Deutsches Folkstum, #11, 1938)
The two faces of Nationalism (Das Doppelantltz des Nationalismus // Europäische Revue, 1932)
Race and Culture (Rasse und Kultur // Widerstand, #6, 1933)
Race as a power that creates leaders (La Razza quale Costruttrice dei Capi // Il Regime Fascista, May 2nd, 1939)
On the Metaphysical foundations of racial thinking (Über die metaphysische Begründung des Rassegedankens // Europäische Revue, XVI, #3, 1940, S. 140ff)
Feminism and the Heroic Tradition (Feminismus und heroische Tradition // Der Ring, June 6th, 1933)
American “Civilization” (1945)
Do we live in a Gynocratic society? (Viviamo in una Societa Ginecocratica? // Augustea, 1936)
The Drama of the Romanian Legion (Corriere Padano, Ferrara, December 6th, 1938)
On the spiritual premise of European unity (Über die geistigen Voraussetzungen einer europäischen Einbeit // Paneuropa, 1932)
Reich and Empire as elements of the new European Order (Reich und Imperium als Elemente der neuen europäischen Ordnung // Europäischen Revue, XVIII, #2, 1942; S.69ff)
Europe and organic Thought (Europa und der organische Gedanke // Nation Europa, #6, 1951, S. 39ff)
Carriers of the European Myth (Träger des Europa-Mythos // Nation Europa, 1952)
Spiritual and structural premises of European union (Europea Nazione, 1951)
Bloodthirsty baron (Roma, February 9th, 1973)
Noble Spirit (Grundlagen eines Ordens: Der Adelige Geist, 1942)
The Order of the Iron Crown (Der Orden der Eisenkrone // Arthos, #2, 1973)
(The) Way of Men (Jack Donovan)
(The) Worker (Ernst Jünger)
The ‘Worker’ in the Thought of Ernst Jünger (Julius Evola)

[Conserative Morality]

Nope. As I've posted before, these are the books I have read or am reading or will read. I know what Fascism is.

Taking a glance through, Evola is explicitly anti-fascist, Spengler and Junger aren't even vaguely fascist, most of these seem like articles, not books, and they're overwhelmingly German, and in Germany the dominant strain of fascism was Nazism, and Hitlerite Nazism at that.

[Drown]

Only in self-defense.

[The Unclosing Eye]

WOW!
The extreme left is now considering the tactics of ISIS!
Think carefully about declaring war, it will destroy society (including you); and there will be no going back!

[Esternial]

Depressingly sad as things are now, they won't change overnight. Using violence in an attempt to "speed up the process" has a greater chance at having the opposite effect.