Necessitating Violence

[Comcaliph]

Rookie time travel mistake, you cannot change the past because if you hugged Hitler and stopped him rising, then you would never have had this conversation motivating you to go back and hug Hitler, therefore you would never have hugged him leading him to rise to power.

Not if you believe in the multiverse theory, in that case, by time travelling and hugging Hitler, you could actually create a WW2 free universe even if our own timeline wouldn't change.

But then you end up with a collection of broken universes with entirely different pasts, nothing would be how you remember apart from in the universe where Hitler rises to power.

[MERIZoC]

And...you know...genocide of 2 continents, mass enslavement and conversion of another....all that jazz.

Yeah, but then never would have been in a position to do that if it weren't for all the early masochism.

So the lesson is let em think you're down and weak and then get up and kill them and everyone they agree with.

[The 93rd Coalition]

Not if you believe in the multiverse theory, in that case, by time travelling and hugging Hitler, you could actually create a WW2 free universe even if our own timeline wouldn't change.

But then you end up with a collection of broken universes with entirely different pasts, nothing would be how you remember apart from in the universe where Hitler rises to power.

But you would end fixing it, so that wouldn't matter, would it?

[Luminesa]

You should all listen the Christian. Their movement is as successful as it is almost entirely because of how much they enjoy letting people beat them up.

And...you know...genocide of 2 continents, mass enslavement and conversion of another....all that jazz.

The Church did not enslave anyone. Christians did, but not the Church Herself. Because, you know, some people misuse their holy books.

Genocide of two continents? What?

Anyway, one doesn't make themselves sound very legitimate, by attacking a person who is trying to propose a solution to the OP's anger, by jumping into, "OMG, a Christian, bad stuff happened in their history, I'm going to attack it despite the fact that what I'm saying has nothing to do with the conversation, FOR EDGINESS!" T___T

[The New Sea Territory]

To which we respond by arming the working class. See: Socialist gun clubs and syndicalist labor unions.

Where in your dream world do socialist gun clubs and syndicalist labor unions exist en masse in the United States? A handful of people is not a feasible plan.

Which is why we make it feasible by spreading and growing these organizations...

If you kill somebody who does not pose an active threat to your life, that's murder. Regardless of their political orientation, we have equal protection under the law.

Are you going to tell black people that the Klan doesn't pose a threat to their life?

On paper.

Again, you are in the minority. The U.S. government isn't the British post WW2 exhausted by 2 world wars and a great depression. This is not the right example to be basing your actions off of.

Not once did I say we should model modern insurrection off what happened in India. I was using it as an example of what I was talking about.

You don't know your history. You ought to read up more. Gustav Noske was a social Democrat (like myself) who worked with the Freikorps to restore order when the Raterepublik broke out. He had Rosa Luxemborg and Kurt Esiner shot. A similar situation (though not exact) occurred in Spain. Revolution kicked off instead of the normal political system. In both cases, the middle class and those lower class who were culturally middle class sided against the Reds. Your insurrection will not work in a modern industrialized country. The closest historical parallels to the U.S. all point to your failing. It is a foolish idea to hold. Think and read up before you go around spouting off such dangerous ideas.

Don't talk to me about history while you push nonviolence, a strategy solely propped up by liberal romanticizing of the civil rights movement and Indian independence.

Again, Luxemburg's failure doesn't disprove the need or possibility of insurrection. It simply shows that they failed, within their historical context. We can learn from their failure and move on. Nothing that you've said here tells me anything different.

You use "Reds" as if that refers to anyone specific in Spain, showing you must not know the intricacies of the revolution in Spain, all the while lecturing me about needing to "know your history". What happened in Spain shows the dangers of collaboration between authoritarian and libertarian socialists during revolutionary periods, just like what happened during the Paris Commune and the Russian Civil War. Nothing about it says that resisting fascism or advocating social revolution is "foolish".

"Dangerous" ideas are ones that actually change things. Anything short of them is biasing the entire debate in favor of those who hold reactionary, hateful beliefs.

[Comcaliph]

But then you end up with a collection of broken universes with entirely different pasts, nothing would be how you remember apart from in the universe where Hitler rises to power.

But you would end fixing it, so that wouldn't matter, would it?

No, because there is still a universe where Hitler rises to power.

[The 93rd Coalition]

But you would end fixing it, so that wouldn't matter, would it?

No, because there is still a universe where Hitler rises to power.

Yeah, but now you've created a new one where people can live up free and whole.

I guess the bottom line is that time travel is a crapshoot.

[Luminesa]

But you would end fixing it, so that wouldn't matter, would it?

No, because there is still a universe where Hitler rises to power.

I watched Madoka Magica. HOW DID I NOT REALIZE THIS?!

*Buries face in pillow.*

[Geilinor]

Where in your dream world do socialist gun clubs and syndicalist labor unions exist en masse in the United States? A handful of people is not a feasible plan.

Which is why we make it feasible by spreading and growing these organizations...

If you kill somebody who does not pose an active threat to your life, that's murder. Regardless of their political orientation, we have equal protection under the law.

Are you going to tell black people that the Klan doesn't pose a threat to their life?

On paper.

If the Klan attacks, you defend yourself. But the KKK is not currently attacking many people.

[Comcaliph]

No, because there is still a universe where Hitler rises to power.

Yeah, but now you've created a new one where people can live up free and whole.

I guess the bottom line is that time travel is a crapshoot.

We should stop worrying about time travel to the past, it'd be nice to see what it was like, but we should focus on changing the future.

[The New Sea Territory]

Genocide of two continents? What?

Yeah, I think he means on six continents.

[The East Marches]

Where in your dream world do socialist gun clubs and syndicalist labor unions exist en masse in the United States? A handful of people is not a feasible plan.

Which is why we make it feasible by spreading and growing these organizations...

If you kill somebody who does not pose an active threat to your life, that's murder. Regardless of their political orientation, we have equal protection under the law.

Are you going to tell black people that the Klan doesn't pose a threat to their life?

On paper.

Again, you are in the minority. The U.S. government isn't the British post WW2 exhausted by 2 world wars and a great depression. This is not the right example to be basing your actions off of.

Not once did I say we should model modern insurrection off what happened in India. I was using it as an example of what I was talking about.

You don't know your history. You ought to read up more. Gustav Noske was a social Democrat (like myself) who worked with the Freikorps to restore order when the Raterepublik broke out. He had Rosa Luxemborg and Kurt Esiner shot. A similar situation (though not exact) occurred in Spain. Revolution kicked off instead of the normal political system. In both cases, the middle class and those lower class who were culturally middle class sided against the Reds. Your insurrection will not work in a modern industrialized country. The closest historical parallels to the U.S. all point to your failing. It is a foolish idea to hold. Think and read up before you go around spouting off such dangerous ideas.

Don't talk to me about history while you push nonviolence, a strategy solely propped up by liberal romanticizing of the civil rights movement and Indian independence.

Again, Luxemburg's failure doesn't disprove the need or possibility of insurrection. It simply shows that they failed, within their historical context. We can learn from their failure and move on. Nothing that you've said here tells me anything different.

You use "Reds" as if that refers to anyone specific in Spain, showing you must not know the intricacies of the revolution in Spain, all the while lecturing me about needing to "know your history". What happened in Spain shows the dangers of collaboration between authoritarian and libertarian socialists during revolutionary periods, just like what happened during the Paris Commune and the Russian Civil War. Nothing about it says that resisting fascism or advocating social revolution is "foolish".

"Dangerous" ideas are ones that actually change things. Anything short of them is biasing the entire debate in favor of those who hold reactionary, hateful beliefs.

There is no arguing with a true fanatic. Good luck amigo and I hope you find your way.

[Comcaliph]

No, because there is still a universe where Hitler rises to power.

I watched Madoka Magica. HOW DID I NOT REALIZE THIS?!

*Buries face in pillow.*

Awww *stands awkwardly* don't be sad?

[The New Sea Territory]

There is no arguing with a true fanatic. Good luck amigo and I hope you find your way.

Come back when you "know your history".

[Aelex]

But you would end fixing it, so that wouldn't matter, would it?

No, because there is still a universe where Hitler rises to power.

Including one where he is a super-aryan.

[The East Marches]

There is no arguing with a true fanatic. Good luck amigo and I hope you find your way.

Come back when you "know your history".

I'm not the one with deillusions of grandeur. That was some tasty bait and I couldn't resist biting.

[Comcaliph]

No, because there is still a universe where Hitler rises to power.

Including one where he is a super-aryan.

Alternatively there's a universe probably dominated by land walking fascist Dolphins.

[Serconas]

It is to the one who would be part of it.

But it isn't, diversity is evolutionary advantageous

As someone pointed out before, an "Aryan" society is benefial to "Aryans".
Genetic diversity is evolutionary advantagous, because the inidividuals with genes that are responsible for the formation of body parts and functions benifit said indivudals in their specific environment in such a way that they survive. All others don´t.
In todays human society that means not as much as it did some million years ago. That´s because we´re not as dependent on environmental factors as our ancestors around that time. Back then humans had sticks and stones to defend against predators. Now humans have firearms, body protections and machinery.

But back to the topic.
If someone uses violence against you, you´re allowed to respond with appropriate violence. That´s called self defense.
But, as an example, killing people from the Westboro Baptist Church, just because they stand at ComicCon and demonstrate with their signs is hardly self defense.

[Luminesa]

I watched Madoka Magica. HOW DID I NOT REALIZE THIS?!

*Buries face in pillow.*

Awww *stands awkwardly* don't be sad?

I'm not sad. I'm just a mopey anime fan. XD

*Gets up, is fine.*

[Luminesa]

No, because there is still a universe where Hitler rises to power.

Including one where he is a super-aryan.

BWAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!

*Hides in Nope-box.*

NOPE!!! I'M NOT OKAY ANYMORE!!!

[Atelia]

Go ahead, I would love that. No easier way to rally men to our cause and ensure the death of liberalism.

[Comcaliph]

But it isn't, diversity is evolutionary advantageous

As someone pointed out before, an "Aryan" society is benefial to "Aryans".
Genetic diversity is evolutionary advantagous, because the inidividuals with genes that are responsible for the formation of body parts and functions benifit said indivudals in their specific environment in such a way that they survive. All others don´t.
In todays human society that means not as much as it did some million years ago. That´s because we´re not as dependent on environmental factors as our ancestors around that time. Back then humans had sticks and stones to defend against predators. Now humans have firearms, body protections and machinery.

But back to the topic.
If someone uses violence against you, you´re allowed to respond with appropriate violence. That´s called self defense.
But, as an example, killing people from the Westboro Baptist Church, just because they stand at ComicCon and demonstrate with their signs is hardly self defense.

It's comic con, if you oppose that then life isn't really worth living.

[Comcaliph]

Awww *stands awkwardly* don't be sad?

I'm not sad. I'm just a mopey anime fan. XD

*Gets up, is fine.*

Aren't we all tho

[The New Sea Territory]

Come back when you "know your history".

I'm not the one with deillusions of grandeur. That was some tasty bait and I couldn't resist biting.

Nonviolence is one of the greatest delusions of the 20th century, alongside fascism, Leninism and Reaganomics. The movements it inspired are, at best, wasted potential. At worst, their leaders are "Uncle Toms".

I don't think insurrectionary action will be "grand". I never claimed it to be.

[The East Marches]

I'm not the one with deillusions of grandeur. That was some tasty bait and I couldn't resist biting.

Nonviolence is one of the greatest delusions of the 20th century, alongside fascism, Leninism and Reaganomics. The movements it inspired are, at best, wasted potential. At worst, their leaders are "Uncle Toms".

I don't think insurrectionary action will be "grand". I never claimed it to be.

"Uncle Tom" is an extremely racist term. I shouldn't be surprised that somebody so far left would eventually become right.

What made you so angry? Why the need for violence?