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Is autism caused by vaccines?

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do vaccines cause autism

Yes
10
3%
No
284
93%
Don't know
5
2%
Don't care
7
2%
 
Total votes : 306

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Hetalia Dakota 2 II
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Postby Hetalia Dakota 2 II » Wed May 18, 2016 4:42 pm

Risottia wrote:
Hetalia Dakota 2 II wrote:Do you get where I was coming from though? My little brother who just passed away had autism severely and my little cousin has it and the symptoms can increase after vaccination if combined with a lack of an immune system and adverse reactions to Mercury.


Into astrology?

If you're referring to the element mercury (the planet has a capital M, the element does not), mercury isn't used in vaccines since 2000 and removing thiomersal from the equation has resulted in an increase of autism anyway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_p ... g#Medicine

The cases I was referring to were pre 2000, and pointing out a capital my phone did helps how?
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ADST World
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Postby ADST World » Wed May 18, 2016 4:42 pm

Sammuramat wrote:
Rhyfelnydd wrote:I don't recall anyone saying it was a bad thing.

It's implied by the people who are glad that it can be 'reversed'.

Personally, I would set stout like this:
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New Grestin
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Postby New Grestin » Wed May 18, 2016 4:42 pm

No. Autism has never been caused by vaccines, and it never will.

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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Wed May 18, 2016 4:42 pm

ADST World wrote:
Stahn wrote:A learning disability is not what autism is.

I don't know the answer to the question.

Yes, under some country's legal systems, it is a learning disability. Also, if it isn't, then what is it?

No, it's a neurodevelopmental disorder wich can cause as side effect learning disabilities. You're mistaking cause and effect (also, source).
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Jumalariik
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Postby Jumalariik » Wed May 18, 2016 4:43 pm

Yes. Many people who are autistic have vaccines. Therefore autism is caused by vaccines. Autism is actually also caused by being autistic because all people who have autism are on the autism spectrum.
Last edited by Jumalariik on Wed May 18, 2016 4:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Ximea
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Postby Ximea » Wed May 18, 2016 4:43 pm

Leppikania wrote:No. It's not. The whole belief that vaccines caused autism came from a single study, which got refuted by several other studies and eventually withdrawn.

One fraudulent study. It was determined that Wakefield had a monetary interest and fudged his data rather severely.

Sammuramat wrote:
Rhyfelnydd wrote:I don't recall anyone saying it was a bad thing.

It's implied by the people who are glad that it can be 'reversed'.

It's a spectrum. There are autistic people who get by fine, there are those who need a little help, and then there are those whose autism is so severe that they can't communicate with their own parents. I think reversing that last condition is something we can all agree is positive.
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Salus Maior
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Postby Salus Maior » Wed May 18, 2016 4:44 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:
ADST World wrote:Also, if it isn't, then what is it?


Faulty wiring. My parents should have got a refund.

Salus Maior wrote:Is that actually true?


I was mistaken about the womb and reversing it completely, but it can be done with adult brains. What happens is that they've identified a protein called Shank3 which is either missing or defective. Turning it on or implanting it can eliminate symptoms of autism such as compulsive behaviour, avoidance of social interactions and anxiety.


No, I meant your comment on the "wrong people". What do you mean by that?
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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Wed May 18, 2016 4:45 pm

Hetalia Dakota 2 II wrote:
Risottia wrote:
Into astrology?

If you're referring to the element mercury (the planet has a capital M, the element does not), mercury isn't used in vaccines since 2000 and removing thiomersal from the equation has resulted in an increase of autism anyway.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mercury_p ... g#Medicine

The cases I was referring to were pre 2000, and pointing out a capital my phone did helps how?


Since this thread is about quackery, astrology could be fitting in.
Also, try using your phone better.
By the way, the "adverse reaction to mercury" is common to all humans. It's called "mercury poisoning".
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ADST World
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Postby ADST World » Wed May 18, 2016 4:45 pm

Risottia wrote:
ADST World wrote:Yes, under some country's legal systems, it is a learning disability. Also, if it isn't, then what is it?

No, it's a neurodevelopmental disorder wich can cause as side effect learning disabilities. You're mistaking cause and effect (also, source).

I don't have a source, but I know my school considered it a learning disability.
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Hetalia Dakota 2 II
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Postby Hetalia Dakota 2 II » Wed May 18, 2016 4:45 pm

Risottia wrote:
Hetalia Dakota 2 II wrote:The cases I was referring to were pre 2000, and pointing out a capital my phone did helps how?


Since this thread is about quackery, astrology could be fitting in.
Also, try using your phone better.
By the way, the "adverse reaction to mercury" is common to all humans. It's called "mercury poisoning".

Im not sure how resorting to this is contributing to the discussion
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Costa Fierro
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Postby Costa Fierro » Wed May 18, 2016 4:45 pm

Sammuramat wrote:Autism is far more unpredictable than being just hereditary.


Autism is primarily hereditary but it can also be treated with hormonal treatments during pregnancy to reduce testosterone levels.

And the suffering causes to autistic people is usually caused more by other people's reactions to autism than autism itself - why should autistic people be banned from having children because those children might be disadvantaged by society?


Because why would you subject your child to a life of social isolation and social disadvantage? If you suffered all your life by people mistreating you, bullying you and generally being absolute and utter pieces of shit towards you, why the ever living fuck would you want your child to be subjected to the same? The whole point of parenting is to give your child the best possible start in life and autism is, quite frankly, one of the biggest non-physical handicaps they can have. It beggars belief that people are under the impression that autism isn't anything other than a blight on humanity and should be done away with as soon as science finds a cure, or at least makes one available that eliminates the worst behaviours.
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Sammuramat
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Postby Sammuramat » Wed May 18, 2016 4:46 pm

The East Marches wrote:
Sammuramat wrote:It's implied by the people who are glad that it can be 'reversed'.


People wouldn't be searching for a cure if it didn't negatively impact people's lives.

From, at least, the autistic people I know of, it is not autistic people looking for a cure. They are looking for ways to make the world less hostile ,to them. If a person has difficulty with executive function or social interaction those can be helped with therapy but it's unneeded to like, completely remove autism. It is so wired in to personality that removing it is just impractical. From what I have seen it is allistic people who want it cured.

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Major-Tom
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Postby Major-Tom » Wed May 18, 2016 4:46 pm

ADST World wrote:
The East Marches wrote:Its caused by too much 4chan.

I feel as though you are joking. if not, what evidence is there that the two are connected? This is a pretty unique theory.


There is plenty of evidence. Generally, those posting on 4chan begin their posting as well adjusted teenagers ready to begin life, and leave with severe, severe variants of autism.

Science has confirmed this on a myriad of occasions, so true.
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Nearly Finland
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Postby Nearly Finland » Wed May 18, 2016 4:46 pm

No. As a person on the spectrum, no, as an intelligent human being, I can personally assure you that if you wonder this, you should search for relevant and reliable research on the topic, rather than relying on the testimony of an orange-haired dipstick.

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Neos Ptolemaion
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Postby Neos Ptolemaion » Wed May 18, 2016 4:47 pm

Personally, autism is not a learning disability, but it impairs the ability to communicate and interact; my experience with individuals that are affected by the disease have generally been prone to random outbursts. For example, they may be "stuck" on a random word or phrase that they will continue repeating, or blurt out in a classroom a question (with questionable relevancy to the current discussion). However, it does not mean that someone definitively cannot be successful. Some individuals I've seen are unable to lead normal lives because of it, while others only appear a little socially awkward. This also raises another topic of debate (something I find that people are generally divided in, much more so than on this thread); would one abort their child if they were certain to have autism or a disease that could potentially hinder the child from living a typical life?

That also ties into the topic of vaccinations; we now have an amazing way to fix diseases that could claim many, many lives yearly. Would you rather have a dead child than one with autism?

As for my opinion, the answer is a resounding no. It's even debatable whether or not autism can be contracted after birth, although it most definitely does not have to "show itself" (i.e. symptoms) almost immediately. This can be referred to as "regressive autism", in the sense that a child makes normal progress and regresses after a while. It appears that autism is not the cause of behavioral, social, or academic issues caused after birth; it is also apparent that autism spectrum disorder cannot be diagnosed outside of early childhood. https://www.verywell.com/what-is-regressive-or-late-onset-autism-260552 & https://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism

The CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention), a well-respected and qualified source, tells that there is no link between autism and vaccines. This opinion is shared by all other major organizations (for lack of a better word that I can think of at the moment).
Since 2003, there have been nine CDC-funded or conducted studies that have found no link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD, as well as no link between the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine and ASD in children.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html

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ADST World
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Postby ADST World » Wed May 18, 2016 4:47 pm

Hetalia Dakota 2 II wrote:
Risottia wrote:
Since this thread is about quackery, astrology could be fitting in.
Also, try using your phone better.
By the way, the "adverse reaction to mercury" is common to all humans. It's called "mercury poisoning".

Im not sure how resorting to this is contributing to the discussion

I agree, is this really helping the point, or dragging it down to new lows?
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Chuukango
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Postby Chuukango » Wed May 18, 2016 4:47 pm

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ADST World
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Postby ADST World » Wed May 18, 2016 4:48 pm

Neos Ptolemaion wrote:Personally, autism is not a learning disability, but it impairs the ability to communicate and interact; my experience with individuals that are affected by the disease have generally been prone to random outbursts. For example, they may be "stuck" on a random word or phrase that they will continue repeating, or blurt out in a classroom a question (with questionable relevancy to the current discussion). However, it does not mean that someone definitively cannot be successful. Some individuals I've seen are unable to lead normal lives because of it, while others only appear a little socially awkward. This also raises another topic of debate (something I find that people are generally divided in, much more so than on this thread); would one abort their child if they were certain to have autism or a disease that could potentially hinder the child from living a typical life?

That also ties into the topic of vaccinations; we now have an amazing way to fix diseases that could claim many, many lives yearly. Would you rather have a dead child than one with autism?

As for my opinion, the answer is a resounding no. It's even debatable whether or not autism can be contracted after birth, although it most definitely does not have to "show itself" (i.e. symptoms) almost immediately. This can be referred to as "regressive autism", in the sense that a child makes normal progress and regresses after a while. It appears that autism is not the cause of behavioral, social, or academic issues caused after birth; it is also apparent that autism spectrum disorder cannot be diagnosed outside of early childhood. https://www.verywell.com/what-is-regressive-or-late-onset-autism-260552 & https://www.autismspeaks.org/what-autism

The CDC (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention), a well-respected and qualified source, tells that there is no link between autism and vaccines. This opinion is shared by all other major organizations (for lack of a better word that I can think of at the moment).
Since 2003, there have been nine CDC-funded or conducted studies that have found no link between thimerosal-containing vaccines and ASD, as well as no link between the measles, mumps, and rubella (MMR) vaccine and ASD in children.
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/autism.html


1. not a disease, a learning disability or neurodevelopment disorder.
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The East Marches
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Postby The East Marches » Wed May 18, 2016 4:48 pm

Sammuramat wrote:
The East Marches wrote:
People wouldn't be searching for a cure if it didn't negatively impact people's lives.

From, at least, the autistic people I know of, it is not autistic people looking for a cure. They are looking for ways to make the world less hostile ,to them. If a person has difficulty with executive function or social interaction those can be helped with therapy but it's unneeded to like, completely remove autism. It is so wired in to personality that removing it is just impractical. From what I have seen it is allistic people who want it cured.


You and I must know different autistic people. Most I know would hate to visit what they have upon their child. Its like saying "I don't know anybody who hates having a cripple arm. They just want the world to accommodate their arm, they don't miss out on anything their arm could have provided them".
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Postby Utceforp » Wed May 18, 2016 4:48 pm

ADST World wrote:Is the learning disability known as autism caused by vaccines? Personally I don't think so. The scientific evidence is very much against it, and there are many stories of parents who avoided vaccines due to paranoia, but their children developed autism anyways.

Also, there are many autistic people out there who themselves admit that they think there is no correlation. These are people with firsthand experience of what it is like, and who also think that there is no link. Personally, due to the overwhelming evidence and witnesses in favour of there being no link, I suggest everybody go get vaccinated now.

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Risottia
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Postby Risottia » Wed May 18, 2016 4:49 pm

ADST World wrote:
Hetalia Dakota 2 II wrote:Im not sure how resorting to this is contributing to the discussion

I agree, is this really helping the point, or dragging it down to new lows?

This is a thread about autism and vaccines.
The only way to make it sink even deeper would be throwing some abortion and Falklands into the mix.
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ADST World
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Postby ADST World » Wed May 18, 2016 4:49 pm

Nearly Finland wrote:No. As a person on the spectrum, no, as an intelligent human being, I can personally assure you that if you wonder this, you should search for relevant and reliable research on the topic, rather than relying on the testimony of an orange-haired dipstick.

Actually, I wanted to make a place for people to voice their arguments and clear the air, so it wouldn't spill into other forums if someone admitted they were autistic.
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Charlia
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Postby Charlia » Wed May 18, 2016 4:49 pm

As a high-functioning autistic myself(Aspergers Syndrome, or Autism Spectrum Disorder), allow me to just say...

Never, no way, nohow, absolutely, unequivocally, irrevocably, no.

The only correlation is that children lucky enough to receive regular vaccinations tend to also be lucky enough to have access to counselors and psychologists who can diagnose autism spectrum disorders. A lot of the 'evidence' is people not considering broadening diagnostic criteria and increased awareness as a possible reason for the apparent increase of autism prevalence, and one thoroughly discredited study that is contradicted by an avalanche of other studies.

So that debunks the 'evidence' for that theory.

The case against it being caused by vaccines is not that difficult to grasp, yet many people remain convinced it's all caused by vaccines, which is leading to the resurfacing of some pretty nasty stuff. In fact, the guy who did the measles, mumps, and rubella study, Andrew Wakefield, was actually struck off the British medical register for ethics violations.

I, for one, am offended by those who don’t vaccinate for fear of autism, as it seems that they would rather the child die of preventable disease than survive while autistic--and that's if the thoroughly disproved claim had any truth at all, which it does not.

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Sammuramat
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Postby Sammuramat » Wed May 18, 2016 4:49 pm

Costa Fierro wrote:
Sammuramat wrote:Autism is far more unpredictable than being just hereditary.


Autism is primarily hereditary but it can also be treated with hormonal treatments during pregnancy to reduce testosterone levels.

And the suffering causes to autistic people is usually caused more by other people's reactions to autism than autism itself - why should autistic people be banned from having children because those children might be disadvantaged by society?


Because why would you subject your child to a life of social isolation and social disadvantage? If you suffered all your life by people mistreating you, bullying you and generally being absolute and utter pieces of shit towards you, why the ever living fuck would you want your child to be subjected to the same? The whole point of parenting is to give your child the best possible start in life and autism is, quite frankly, one of the biggest non-physical handicaps they can have. It beggars belief that people are under the impression that autism isn't anything other than a blight on humanity and should be done away with as soon as science finds a cure, or at least makes one available that eliminates the worst behaviours.

I am autistic. The handicap seems to be more in that society is engineered for a certain type of person. The idea of getting rid of autism instead of trying to end the prejudice and hate towards autistic people is ridiculous. It's like trying to end homophobia by sending bullied gay people to conversion camps, because obviously being gay in itself is the source of the misery, instead of trying to get people to be less homophobic!

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New Grestin
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Postby New Grestin » Wed May 18, 2016 4:50 pm

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Smells like an early summer!

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