BLM Tears Down 'Blue Lives Matter' billboards

[The New Sea Territory]

ah fuck it i'm going there. segregation happened in living memory and we still need to explain to you why "just followin orders" is an utter dogshit defence from a moral perspective.

Except drugs laws have absolutely nothing to do with Jim Crow laws and are not comparable.

Until you realize both are means of harassing minority communities and keeping them down. In this case, black communities.

[Novus America]

I strongly agree with the message left by those who tore down the billboard, though I do not condone the action of tearing the billboard down.

The slogan 'blue lives matter' bothers me for the same reason 'all lives matter' does: It is a blatant co-opting of 'black lives matter', and it tries to erase the black community's struggle against institutionalized violence.

The problem is many claiming to represent Black Lives Matters attack all police and have ingnored surges in violent crime in several cities.

Police have a right to be protected, and they are under attack by many.

[Inter-Universal Republic of Earth]

I strongly agree with the message left by those who tore down the billboard, though I do not condone the action of tearing the billboard down.

The slogan 'blue lives matter' bothers me for the same reason 'all lives matter' does: It is a blatant co-opting of 'black lives matter', and it tries to erase the black community's struggle against institutionalized violence.

Thank you for being civil about this. We may have differing views on political policies, but I'm extremely glad that people like you have found the original problem to this scenario which is, "We're they in the right to tear it down?"

[The Greater Ohio Valley]

Not really, drug prohibition didn't come about just to oppress minority's unless you have sauces to a legislator saying "we're banning drugs cuz fuck minority's".

Quick google search disagrees. This story broke somewhat recently.

Even setting that aside, intentions do not really matter when the drug war, in practice, affects poor and black populations disproportionately.

If any "individual liberties" are being taken away then it's not the police taking them away, it's the legislators who passed the laws who are. Police don't make laws.

The SS soldiers didn't come up with the Final solution, but they still shoved people into gas chambers.

Your logic doesn't apply so well there, does it?

Does something an aide to the president necessarily mean it to be the absolute truth? Probably not.

What does any of this have to do with Nazis?

[Talvezout]

Erm, no.

I may not like the billboards by some random political candidate for example, but that doesn't give me free range to tear them down.

[Lady Scylla]

Not really, drug prohibition didn't come about just to oppress minority's unless you have sauces to a legislator saying "we're banning drugs cuz fuck minority's".

If any "individual liberties" are being taken away then it's not the police taking them away, it's the legislators who passed the laws who are. Police don't make laws.

ah fuck it i'm going there. segregation happened in living memory and we still need to explain to you why "just followin orders" is an utter dogshit defence from a moral perspective.

Morality in general is dogshit. It was morally acceptable centuries ago to consider blacks as 3/5 of a human being and only worth a damn if they did their work. Objective morality doesn't exist and has always been dependent on the society it is derived from and what the general consensus is. Thankfully we've matured and realised slavery is terrible, but it wasn't seen that way for a very long time.

[The New Sea Territory]

ah fuck it i'm going there. segregation happened in living memory and we still need to explain to you why "just followin orders" is an utter dogshit defence from a moral perspective.

Just following orders is also obeying the law. If someone were to disagree with the law, and do whatever they wanted as they deemed the law to be 'immoral' then there would be a crime wave.

Ah, yes. "Be afraid! Criminals will get you!"

It's not like cops are killing people right now or anything.

[Souseiseki]

ah fuck it i'm going there. segregation happened in living memory and we still need to explain to you why "just followin orders" is an utter dogshit defence from a moral perspective.

Except drugs laws have absolutely nothing to do with Jim Crow laws and are not comparable. Police arresting someone or citing someone for drugs isn't the same as "get outta here darkie or we 'gon haul ya off to da pokie".

well, the police either enforce the law or they don't and that was the law for many people alive today. do you want to give them an out from not enforcing the law if they don't like it?

[Talvezout]

Quick google search disagrees. This story broke somewhat recently.

Even setting that aside, intentions do not really matter when the drug war, in practice, affects poor and black populations disproportionately.



The SS soldiers didn't come up with the Final solution, but they still shoved people into gas chambers.

Your logic doesn't apply so well there, does it?

Does something an aide to the president necessarily mean it to be the absolute truth? Probably not.

What does any of this have to do with Nazis?

Godwin's Law is a mysterious beast.

[Neo Arcad]

Except drugs laws have absolutely nothing to do with Jim Crow laws and are not comparable.

Until you realize both are means of harassing minority communities and keeping them down. In this case, black communities.

...no? Drugs are illegal for everyone, not just black people. Streetcar segregation and the like, that's a different animal altogether. You really can't compare the two, it makes no sense. Try for a different analogy.

[Liriena]

That's not the point.

The "Blue Lives Matter" movement is subverting the cry of #BlackLivesMatter to turn discourse away from racial disparities and abuse in policing and criminal justice to praising and protecting those who carry out those injustices, as if they are somehow the true victims.

"Blue Lives Matter" exists mainly to undermine #BlackLivesMatter, and would not exist without it.

I always saw Black Lives Matter as more divisive and a reinforcement of racism and racial divide than a narrative that promotes equal treatment. It makes far more sense to me to promote a movement that targets discrimination in general, not just what one "race" or other demographic experiences. It comes off as exclusive of other demographics who face discrimination and seemingly promotes a narrative that they themselves have it worse. Which it shoupdn't be seen that way; discriminstion is bad regardless of whom it is affecting.

Discrimination is bad regardless of whom it is affecting, but not all discrimination manifests in the same forms, or has the same consequences. I am all for broad movements against discrimination in general, but the specific struggles of specific communities should not be erased, ignored, or dissolved into vague, catch-all rhetoric. Univeralism is not in itself a bad thing, but broad statements of universal struggles and universal rights did not end all forms of discrimination during the age of Enlightenment, and they won't do it either now.

[The New Sea Territory]

Does something an aide to the president necessarily mean it to be the absolute truth? Probably not.

It's like you completely ignored the second sentence conveniently.

What does any of this have to do with Nazis?

Logic. The police aren't Nazis, but they are comparable in rank to lowly SS soldiers.

If the police shouldn't be held responsible for enforcing unjust laws, clearly the SS soldiers shoving Jews, gypsies and gays into gas chambers shouldn't either.

[Veridys]

BLM seems to be becoming increasingly ridiculous.

No, the reaction to them by "liberals" is becoming increasingly ridiculous.

I'm assuming you are trying to b8 people. It isn't working.

[Liriena]

ah fuck it i'm going there. segregation happened in living memory and we still need to explain to you why "just followin orders" is an utter dogshit defence from a moral perspective.

Just following orders is also obeying the law. If someone were to disagree with the law, and do whatever they wanted as they deemed the law to be 'immoral' then there would be a crime wave.

I'm pretty sure Souseiseki is not advocating for total anomie, just not blind obedience to every single piece of legislation, regardless of the legitimacy of its rationale, or the unnecessary harm it may cause.

[The New Sea Territory]

Until you realize both are means of harassing minority communities and keeping them down. In this case, black communities.

...no? Drugs are illegal for everyone, not just black people. Streetcar segregation and the like, that's a different animal altogether. You really can't compare the two, it makes no sense. Try for a different analogy.

I certainly can compare the two. Drugs are illegal for everyone, but drug prohibition affects black communities much more.

[Crockerland]

Except drugs laws have absolutely nothing to do with Jim Crow laws and are not comparable.

Until you realize both are means of harassing minority communities and keeping them down. In this case, black communities.

So you're actually arguing that because a larger percentage of blacks than whites commit a crime, it's racist to enforce the law?
Wow.

[Novus America]

Just following orders is also obeying the law. If someone were to disagree with the law, and do whatever they wanted as they deemed the law to be 'immoral' then there would be a crime wave.

Ah, yes. "Be afraid! Criminals will get you!"

It's not like cops are killing people right now or anything.

Umm far more people are killed by criminals than cops...

[The New Sea Territory]

Until you realize both are means of harassing minority communities and keeping them down. In this case, black communities.

So you're actually arguing that because a larger percentage of blacks than whites commit a crime, it's racist to enforce the lawl?

Fundamental flaw in your argument, right there.

[Crockerland]

...no? Drugs are illegal for everyone, not just black people. Streetcar segregation and the like, that's a different animal altogether. You really can't compare the two, it makes no sense. Try for a different analogy.

I certainly can compare the two. Drugs are illegal for everyone, but drug prohibition affects black communities much more.

Murder is illegal for everyone, but murder prohibition affects black communities much more.

Making murder illegal is basically apartheid.

[Novus America]

...no? Drugs are illegal for everyone, not just black people. Streetcar segregation and the like, that's a different animal altogether. You really can't compare the two, it makes no sense. Try for a different analogy.

I certainly can compare the two. Drugs are illegal for everyone, but drug prohibition affects black communities much more.

Look the drug war is fucked up. But that is not the fault of the police as much as bad legislation.

[The New Sea Territory]

Ah, yes. "Be afraid! Criminals will get you!"

It's not like cops are killing people right now or anything.

Umm far more people are killed by criminals than cops...

Sure.

Your justification still doesn't make sense.

[Liriena]

No, the reaction to them by "liberals" is becoming increasingly ridiculous.

I'm assuming you are trying to b8 people. It isn't working.

I don't think they are trying to bait and, to be honest, I partially agree with them. I saw too many self-proclaimed liberals and lefts-of-centre dropping BLM like a hot rock the moment there were signs of the movement not being entirely polite or peaceful. Which was disheartening, because BLM is more than a handful of people saying something nasty or engaging in minor acts of vandalism, and I would have expected people who supposedly stood on the same side of politics as I to see that.

[The New Sea Territory]

I certainly can compare the two. Drugs are illegal for everyone, but drug prohibition affects black communities much more.

Look the drug war is fucked up. But that is not the fault of the police as much as bad legislation.

It's not their fault that it exists. That's obvious.

Still, they enforce it. Are they completely not responsible, because they are just doing their job?

[Neo Arcad]

So you're actually arguing that because a larger percentage of blacks than whites commit a crime, it's racist to enforce the lawl?

Fundamental flaw in your argument, right there.

How? Numbers don't lie. Blacks are disproportionately more likely to commit a wide range of crimes. It's not a flaw, it's a fact.

[The New Sea Territory]

I certainly can compare the two. Drugs are illegal for everyone, but drug prohibition affects black communities much more.

Murder is illegal for everyone, but murder prohibition affects black communities much more.

Making murder illegal is basically apartheid.

Because murder and marijuana use are so comparable.