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BLM Tears Down 'Blue Lives Matter' billboards

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Was BLM in the right or wrong?

Right
28
10%
Wrong
238
84%
Not enough evidence to make a conclusion.
18
6%
 
Total votes : 284

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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Wed May 18, 2016 8:38 am

Ethel mermania wrote:
Liriena wrote:I believe they had a legitimate point to begin with. Furthermore, last I checked, not every single BLM rally was violent, or riddled with vandalism, and BLM is a very large, broad movement, without a single definitive doctrine or leadership. There have been visible excesses, which reactionaries have latched onto to decry the whole movement, but I would hope that everybody else would be able to see past their outrage at those excesses, and not succumb to the temptation of unfarily generalize thousands, if not millions of people.


I dont, I don't think cops are inherently racist. I don't think BLM is a wide broadbased movement, I think they are a typical far left movement in the way they go about suppressing dissent.

If BLM for the most part was peaceful I would agree with you, but this is by no means a. Isolated incident. This action here is typical for the organization.

I don't think cops are inherently racist, nor do an awful lot of BLM activists. And no offense, but your description of the BLM movement reeks of conservative talking points. BLM is a broad, grassroots movement, and I fail to see how it qualifies as 'typical far left'. Maybe it's just me, but I generally associate the term 'far left' with actually radical ideas, like overthrowing the government, and maybe organized violence. Not thousands of people marching against police brutality and institutional racism, and a handful of people who associate themselves with this broad, relatively disorganized movement, being violent or disruptive.
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Val Halla
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Postby Val Halla » Wed May 18, 2016 8:41 am

Hirota wrote:
Liriena wrote:BLM is a very large, broad movement,
Is that true though? They lack the influence or numbers to make a dent in politics. Most black voters align more closely with the ethos of "all lives matter" according to Rasmussen, so it's difficult to say for certain they have a broad base of supporters.
without a single definitive doctrine or leadership.
There are visible founders and spokesmen with serious "excesses" as you describe it.
There have been visible excesses, which reactionaries have latched onto to decry the whole movement, but I would hope that everybody else would be able to see past their outrage at those excesses, and not succumb to the temptation of unfarily generalize thousands, if not millions of people.
Agreed, most BLM activists are well intentioned. But it seems rather hypocritical by some on here to dismiss the antics of a minority of BLM activists as a minority, yet simultaneously claim that the actions of a minority of police officers means that the entire institution is corrupt.

It's better to consider them both issues. Minorities of a rights movement being unnecessarily aggressive is an issue in the same way that excessive force from a minority of police officers is.

Of course there is the issue that the police are in a position of authority so they sorta need to be more responsible
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Thiefs County
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Postby Thiefs County » Wed May 18, 2016 8:45 am

Maybe if Blacks didn't commit some of the most crimes people wouldn't be bias.
same

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Imperializt Russia
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Postby Imperializt Russia » Wed May 18, 2016 8:46 am

Hirota wrote:
Liriena wrote:There have been visible excesses, which reactionaries have latched onto to decry the whole movement, but I would hope that everybody else would be able to see past their outrage at those excesses, and not succumb to the temptation of unfarily generalize thousands, if not millions of people.
Agreed, most BLM activists are well intentioned. But it seems rather hypocritical by some on here to dismiss the antics of a minority of BLM activists as a minority, yet simultaneously claim that the actions of a minority of police officers means that the entire institution is corrupt.

The exact opposite is spouted in droves too, y'know.
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Ganonsyoni
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Postby Ganonsyoni » Wed May 18, 2016 8:48 am

Thiefs County wrote:Maybe if Blacks didn't commit some of the most crimes people wouldn't be bias.

Please, master of all knowledge of African-American society, explain to us why "blacks" commit more crimes.
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Thiefs County
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Postby Thiefs County » Wed May 18, 2016 8:49 am

Ganonsyoni wrote:
Thiefs County wrote:Maybe if Blacks didn't commit some of the most crimes people wouldn't be bias.

Please, master of all knowledge of African-American society, explain to us why "blacks" commit more crimes.

Lemme go grab some articles fam
same

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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Wed May 18, 2016 8:49 am

Hirota wrote:
Liriena wrote:BLM is a very large, broad movement,
Is that true though? They lack the influence or numbers to make a dent in politics. Most black voters align more closely with the ethos of "all lives matter" according to Rasmussen, so it's difficult to say for certain they have a broad base of supporters.
without a single definitive doctrine or leadership.
There are visible founders and spokesmen with serious "excesses" as you describe it.
There have been visible excesses, which reactionaries have latched onto to decry the whole movement, but I would hope that everybody else would be able to see past their outrage at those excesses, and not succumb to the temptation of unfarily generalize thousands, if not millions of people.
Agreed, most BLM activists are well intentioned. But it seems rather hypocritical by some on here to dismiss the antics of a minority of BLM activists as a minority, yet simultaneously claim that the actions of a minority of police officers means that the entire institution is corrupt.

Yusra Khogali... co-founder of Black Lives Matter Toronto, apparently. From what I gather, not exactly a leading figure of the larger movement. With that said, there is a difference between a relatively disorganized grassroots movement having a minority of violent or disruptive supporters, and a state institution having a minority of corrupt and violent members who infringe the rights of their fellow citizens, often with impunity. Both are a problem, but one of them exists as part of an institution that has a monopoly on violence, and is supposed to have its potential for abuse severely limited.
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Wed May 18, 2016 8:53 am

Thiefs County wrote:Maybe if Blacks didn't commit some of the most crimes people wouldn't be bias.

First of all, grammar.
Second of all, source?
Third of all, blaming an entire community for the abuse it suffers, on account of some members of that same community breaking the law, is despicable.

Also, last I checked, 'black' was not a noun.
Last edited by Liriena on Wed May 18, 2016 8:54 am, edited 1 time in total.
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I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
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Thiefs County
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Postby Thiefs County » Wed May 18, 2016 8:55 am

same

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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Wed May 18, 2016 8:55 am

Thiefs County wrote:
Ganonsyoni wrote:Please, master of all knowledge of African-American society, explain to us why "blacks" commit more crimes.

Lemme go grab some articles fam

No Breitbart and no Daily Mail, please.

Actually, no articles, period. Go to the FBI's website. If I recall correctly, they keep statistics on arrest (not conviction) rates and the ethnicity of those arrested.
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I am:
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Thiefs County
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Postby Thiefs County » Wed May 18, 2016 8:56 am

Liriena wrote:
Thiefs County wrote:Maybe if Blacks didn't commit some of the most crimes people wouldn't be bias.

First of all, grammar.
Second of all, source?
Third of all, blaming an entire community for the abuse it suffers, on account of some members of that same community breaking the law, is despicable.

Also, last I checked, 'black' was not a noun.

I'm on mobile and cant type for hell on these things sorry
same

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Wed May 18, 2016 8:57 am

The House of Petain wrote:Blue lives matter, black lives matter, all lives matter, but that was never the point of BLM was it? Everybody knows all lives matter, BLM is about making note of the systematic racism that results in the greater likelihood of somebody who is black being shot. Please don't get me wrong, I respect police officers. Most are just trying to do the right thing. But to use the same acronym kind of misses the point and slightly offensive.

It would be like comparing the 2016 election to 9/11 and only a gigantic ass clown would do that.


Well the stastics do not seem to support the narrative that the are in fact killed by police at a disportionate rate. Blacks are unfortunately shot a a disproportionate rate, but by other gala is who are not police.

Which is why I think black lives matters looks too much at the wrong thing. They do not seem to be concerned by the rampant gang violence. Which is a far greater problem than the unfortunate but very rare unjustified police killing.
Last edited by Novus America on Wed May 18, 2016 9:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Wed May 18, 2016 9:01 am

Thiefs County wrote:http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/ ... crimestats

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... es-blacks/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/black-americ ... tml?ref=gs

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GQlv ... VS&f=false


I have more if you need them

Also if any links dont work, let me know and Ill fix it in a few hours when I can access my PC.

Seems to me those sources are mostly indicating that poor people commit the most crimes.

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Thiefs County
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Postby Thiefs County » Wed May 18, 2016 9:04 am

Alvecia wrote:
Thiefs County wrote:http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/ ... crimestats

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... es-blacks/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/black-americ ... tml?ref=gs

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GQlv ... VS&f=false


I have more if you need them

Also if any links dont work, let me know and Ill fix it in a few hours when I can access my PC.

Seems to me those sources are mostly indicating that poor people commit the most crimes.


I mean iirc most poor people were black or however you word that
same

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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Wed May 18, 2016 9:05 am

Thiefs County wrote:https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/crimestats

Alright, let's go straight to the FBI's 2014 arrest statistics.

Total arrests: 8,730,665
White: 6,056,687
Black: 2,427,683

You were not even close in your assertion.

Thiefs County wrote:http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/statements/2014/aug/21/michael-medved/talk-show-host-police-kill-more-whites-blacks/

McCoy noted that this has more to do with income than race. The felony rates for poor whites are similar to those of poor blacks.

"Felony crime is highly correlated with poverty, and race continues to be highly correlated with poverty in the USA," McCoy said. "It is the most difficult and searing problem in this whole mess."


But criminologist Lorie Fridell at the University of South Florida told PunditFact that the research on this point is mixed. Some studies that factor in the level of resistance show that race doesn’t matter, and some show that it does.


Medved said that police kill more whites than blacks. In absolute terms, that is accurate. However, the statement ignores that there are more than five times more whites than blacks in America. When comparing death rates, blacks are about three times more likely than whites to die in a confrontation with police.
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Wed May 18, 2016 9:05 am

Thiefs County wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Seems to me those sources are mostly indicating that poor people commit the most crimes.


I mean iirc most poor people were black or however you word that

So the question becomes why are black people disproportionately poor?

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Ganonsyoni
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Postby Ganonsyoni » Wed May 18, 2016 9:07 am

Thiefs County wrote:http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/ ... crimestats

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... es-blacks/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/black-americ ... tml?ref=gs

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GQlv ... VS&f=false


I have more if you need them

Also if any links dont work, let me know and Ill fix it in a few hours when I can access my PC.

So two sources I'm already marked off because they can't bother doing statistical analysis when the can instead create a clickbait title.

One of your sources also says that drug policies have disproportionately affected black-american and other minority communities.

One source I can't for the life of me navigate (the FBI one)

So the only one left is the homicide rates. I mean, someone who didn't bother to think or analyse the data would just up and say that this is proof that "teh blacks are genetic killers". But sadly for you, I think. It couldn't be the generational poverty and institutionalized racism in the government and free market that makes it difficult to get and hold onto a job for Black- Americans AND also makes crime a more viable way to make an income.
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The East Marches
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Postby The East Marches » Wed May 18, 2016 9:09 am

Alvecia wrote:
Thiefs County wrote:
I mean iirc most poor people were black or however you word that

So the question becomes why are black people disproportionately poor?


It couldn't be environmental or cultural reasons? It has to be pure racism.
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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Wed May 18, 2016 9:10 am

According to the FBI's 2014 statistics, black people only comprised a majority of those arrested for a crime in the categories of:
- Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter
- Robbery
- Gambling

For everything else, including rape, aggravated assault, offenses against the family and children, and, curiously enough, vandalism, white people make up the vast majority.
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I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Wed May 18, 2016 9:12 am

The East Marches wrote:
Alvecia wrote:So the question becomes why are black people disproportionately poor?


It couldn't be environmental or cultural reasons? It has to be pure racism.

I don't believe I ever said it was pure racism. I'd ask you stop trying to create arguments for me and address what I'm actually saying.

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Thiefs County
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Postby Thiefs County » Wed May 18, 2016 9:12 am

Alvecia wrote:
Thiefs County wrote:
I mean iirc most poor people were black or however you word that

So the question becomes why are black people disproportionately poor?

You'd have to give me a minute to either remember one of the reasons off the top of my head or go look for stats or some shit.
same

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Thiefs County
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Postby Thiefs County » Wed May 18, 2016 9:13 am

Liriena wrote:According to the FBI's 2014 statistics, black people only comprised a majority of those arrested for a crime in the categories of:
- Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter
- Robbery
- Gambling

For everything else, including rape, aggravated assault, offenses against the family and children, and, curiously enough, vandalism, white people make up the vast majority.



Remember that there are more whites than blacks

You said so yourself
same

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Novus America
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Postby Novus America » Wed May 18, 2016 9:14 am

Alvecia wrote:
Thiefs County wrote:
I mean iirc most poor people were black or however you word that

So the question becomes why are black people disproportionately poor?


Many reasons. Slavery, the failure of reconstruction, segregation, The great migration, Deindustrialization/outsourcing/China, education problems, lead contamination, amongst other things.
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Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. I support what is good for the country, which means I cannot support either party.

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Thiefs County
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Postby Thiefs County » Wed May 18, 2016 9:15 am

Ganonsyoni wrote:
Thiefs County wrote:http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/htus8008.pdf

https://m.fbi.gov/#https://www.fbi.gov/ ... crimestats

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/st ... es-blacks/

https://www.yahoo.com/news/black-americ ... tml?ref=gs

http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=GQlv ... VS&f=false


I have more if you need them

Also if any links dont work, let me know and Ill fix it in a few hours when I can access my PC.

So two sources I'm already marked off because they can't bother doing statistical analysis when the can instead create a clickbait title.

One of your sources also says that drug policies have disproportionately affected black-american and other minority communities.

One source I can't for the life of me navigate (the FBI one)

So the only one left is the homicide rates. I mean, someone who didn't bother to think or analyse the data would just up and say that this is proof that "teh blacks are genetic killers". But sadly for you, I think. It couldn't be the generational poverty and institutionalized racism in the government and free market that makes it difficult to get and hold onto a job for Black- Americans AND also makes crime a more viable way to make an income.


I'll get more stats for you later.
same

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Liriena
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Postby Liriena » Wed May 18, 2016 9:16 am

Thiefs County wrote:
Liriena wrote:According to the FBI's 2014 statistics, black people only comprised a majority of those arrested for a crime in the categories of:
- Murder and nonnegligent manslaughter
- Robbery
- Gambling

For everything else, including rape, aggravated assault, offenses against the family and children, and, curiously enough, vandalism, white people make up the vast majority.



Remember that there are more whites than blacks

You said so yourself

That doesn't change the fact that you were wrong when you said:
Maybe if Blacks didn't commit some of the most crimes people wouldn't be bias.


Insofar as black people do not commit most crimes. Or, at the very least, are not arrested for most crimes.
be gay do crime


I am:
A pansexual, pantheist, green socialist
An aspiring writer and journalist
Political compass stuff:
Economic Left/Right: -8.13
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -8.92
For: Grassroots democracy, workers' self-management, humanitarianism, pacifism, pluralism, environmentalism, interculturalism, indigenous rights, minority rights, LGBT+ rights, feminism, optimism
Against: Nationalism, authoritarianism, fascism, conservatism, populism, violence, ethnocentrism, racism, sexism, religious bigotry, anti-LGBT+ bigotry, death penalty, neoliberalism, tribalism,
cynicism


⚧Copy and paste this in your sig
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