Stopping Edu. Funds for Disabled Students over Bathroom Laws

[Ifreann]

The thing I don't understand about opponenta of gender neutral restrooms...are public restroom toilets in NC completely exposed and open? Like no stalls or individual cubicals at all? If so, that would strike me as bizarre even with gender segregation, just cause who wants to poop in public?

But some of the nicer public restrooms I've used have cubicals with full floor to ceiling walls and doors, so the only truly common area is the sinks. I cannot think of a compelling reason why I can't wash my hands in public.

i tried to offer the single occupancy restroom as a solution, but for some odd reason this group feels this is not good enough, or that it does not really solve anything... go figure.

Almost as though people aren't willing to compromise on equality and spend an absolute fortune on pandering to bigots.

[MFrost]

would you be opposed to using single occupancy bathrooms or single occupancy showers if states like N.Carolina or Texas decided to solve the problem this way?

Don't give a damn if they can utilize the space as efficiently as they do with multiple-occupant bathrooms. Not sure that banning public restrooms is a very efficient way to go about things and really would cause more problems than it solves.

I've never used anything other than a single-occupancy shower though, because public showers are inherently creepy.

i'm not saying it has to be efficient, just a solution which should make both parties happy... if people in Texas and N.Carolina are willing to pay for it for their own peace of mind, should we fault them for it?

[USS Monitor]

Ok. Well. Problem is perverts have already being doing the photo thing for awhile and *shock* they are punished when discovered. This law does NOTHING to curb that.



Can you name one case where a transgender attacked a child?

Can you name one case where a pedo dressed as a woman and attacked a child in a public bathroom?

This is nothing more then "See fellow Christians I am defending you from the plague of lgbt."



It's easy to defend something when you don't have to pay for it. Bet you would be screaming a different thing if the goverment said we are going to give you a tax to "protect the children" in public bathrooms.



They had access before!

it is also easy to guarantee no harm will occur when its not your child on the line... I at least was attempting to provide a solution which would be acceptable to both parties vs. trying to make this a fight which for all intents and purposes is unnecessary. What the president did was poke at a sensitive Political issue as hard as he could in an attempt to change the election year conversation. It has worked in the past, let me poke at and have some fun with conservatives as we make them look intolerant. Unfortunately my response allows for conservatives to give you exactly what you want without all of the political rigor moroe you were hoping for. they solve the perceived problem and get to say -- what problem? you still upset why?

------------------------------------------------

you really should not challenge people before doing at least a few hours of independent research on the subject.

let me know if some of these are unacceptable or if you need more or if you would like to broaden the scope and go international...

1. -------------------------------------------
Man Dressed as Woman Arrested for Spying Into Mall Bathroom Stall, Police Say

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local ... 32041.html

2. -------------------------------------------

Tue Mar 4, 2014 - 4:57 pm EST
Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ to assault women in shelter

http://linkis.com/www.lifesitenews.com/12D80


3. -------------------------------------------

Palmdale man arrested for videotaping in women’s bathroom
by M. Dilworth • May 14, 2013
Jason Pomare

PALMDALE – A 33-year-old Palmdale man who allegedly dressed as a woman while secretly videotaping females using a department store bathroom was charged with several misdemeanor counts Tuesday, authorities said.

http://ktla.com/2013/05/14/da-cross-dre ... -bathroom/
4. -------------------------------------------

University Of Toronto Gender-Neutral Bathrooms Reduced After Voyeurism Reports

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/10/06 ... 53970.html

5. -------------------------------------------

Man accused of filming women in Smyrna park’s bathroom
http://wkrn.com/2016/04/07/man-charged- ... restrooms/

6. -------------------------------------------

Stamford transgender person charged with sexually assaulting minor

John Nickerson, Staff Writer Updated 10:33 pm, Wednesday, June 8, 2011

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/ar ... 414876.php

7. -------------------------------------------

Man in Barbie costume attacks woman in bathroom

http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/03/02/man- ... -bathroom/

8.-------------------------------------------

Transgender Advocates Say Men Dressed As Women Will Never Harass Women. Yeah, That’s Not True.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/4844/tran ... stigiacomo

9. -------------------------------------------

Woman allegedly forced 13-year-old to perform sex acts on her when she was a man in Frome

http://www.fromestandard.co.uk/Woman-al ... story.html

10. -------------------------------------------

Tuesday, October 12, 2010
Cross-dressing Peeper Infiltrates Cal Women's Locker Room

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/92510/arc ... ocker-room

11. -------------------------------------------

Cops: Locker Room Transvestite Has Cheerleader Fantasy

https://web.archive.org/web/20120114055 ... etail.html
GREENSBURG, Pa. -- A 48-year-old man allegedly dressed as a woman and went into a girls' locker room at Greensburg Salem High School, police told Channel 4 Action News reporter Marcie Cipriani.

12. -------------------------------------------

Cross-dressing man sentenced for battery
https://archive.is/1Wu9k#selection-675.0-675.40

The question is if this is an increase in the number of problems, beyond the amount of voyeurism and sexual assault that happen when bathrooms are segregated by sex. If you dig for them, you can find stories of white people getting assaulted by black people at racially desegregated businesses and schools, but I don't think many people would consider that a compelling reason to bring back racial segregation.

[MFrost]

i tried to offer the single occupancy restroom as a solution, but for some odd reason this group feels this is not good enough, or that it does not really solve anything... go figure.

Almost as though people aren't willing to compromise on equality and spend an absolute fortune on pandering to bigots.

if it works, and the tax payers of those states are willing to pay for it, why would you care? they meet the criteria and get to have their funding for handicapped kids. meanwhile they get a sense of security that some man does not walk into the girls locker room claiming to be a women and all have to bow down to the special needs this individual has. His special needs are met and he gets the equality he wants, not some special exception carved just for him.

[Ifreann]

Don't give a damn if they can utilize the space as efficiently as they do with multiple-occupant bathrooms. Not sure that banning public restrooms is a very efficient way to go about things and really would cause more problems than it solves.

I've never used anything other than a single-occupancy shower though, because public showers are inherently creepy.

i'm not saying it has to be efficient, just a solution which should make both parties happy... if people in Texas and N.Carolina are willing to pay for it for their own peace of mind, should we fault them for it?

The problem with trying to keep both parties happy is that one party thinks the other party are a bunch of delusional perverts out to rape children. They're not going to be happy unless the people they hate are suffering.

[Atheist Collective]

Trans women have been going into women's restrooms for decades, and there have been no recorded cases of sexual harrassment in schools perpetrated by trans students or cisgender students posing as trans in any of the jurisdictions where trans people have been allowed to use the restrooms corresponding with their gender, or the jurisdictions where their right to do so has been recognized by law.

If all you have is wild speculation of a sudden surge of bigoted helicopter parents filing frivolous lawsuits, then we have little to discuss.

And while we are at it... who are you?

However this is going to go nationwide, and not to some small percentage of the general population. different areas have different cultural values, they also have different moral standards.
Are the bathrooms you are talking about monitored, under what conditions were the transgendered children allowed to use the restrooms? were they cleared out first or just adhoc usage?
What measures did the school take to protect not only the transgendered child but the other children potentially using this bathroom? Girls can be vicious too if they feel threatened.

i am stating the above because the directive exponentially and dramatically increases the odds of an adverse event occurring especially if a school does not take proper precautions. This is not limited to just non-transgender students. But is inclusive of transgender students being targeted, bullied, beat up.

Do you honestly think the football jock down south in Texas or in the bible belt is going to let some transgender kid walk into the bathroom his cheerleader girlfriend just walked into? give it a moments thought what is the culture like down there, how were they raised, what are their morals and beliefs? Putting yourself in that persons shoes or just picturing it from the outside looking in, what do you think is about to happen. A happy go for it slap on the back or something else? So when some transgender kid winds up dead because of this who will the parents look to for enforcing this policy and setting their kid up? It must be safe the school said it was ok to do so... the policy just destroyed the lives of two kids because of cultural indifference.

I honestly do not feel this directive was well thought out.

who i am is unimportant to the discussion, just new member who found this to be an interesting topic.

Well if a transgender kid ends up dead, I'm sure that no one outside of fox would blame the bathroom policy. That is the equivalent of a kid punching another and saying "why do you keep hitting yourself"? The only person/s that would deserve the blame would be the ones that committed murder due to bigotry.

[USS Monitor]

The thing I don't understand about opponenta of gender neutral restrooms...are public restroom toilets in NC completely exposed and open? Like no stalls or individual cubicals at all? If so, that would strike me as bizarre even with gender segregation, just cause who wants to poop in public?

But some of the nicer public restrooms I've used have cubicals with full floor to ceiling walls and doors, so the only truly common area is the sinks. I cannot think of a compelling reason why I can't wash my hands in public.

i tried to offer the single occupancy restroom as a solution, but for some odd reason this group feels this is not good enough, or that it does not really solve anything... go figure.

Single occupancy restrooms are fine, but they aren't as space-efficient, which can be a problem for buildings like sports stadiums that get large crowds. And a lot of existing buildings are not built that way, but people still need to pee.

[Galloism]

i tried to offer the single occupancy restroom as a solution, but for some odd reason this group feels this is not good enough, or that it does not really solve anything... go figure.

Single occupancy restrooms are fine, but they aren't as space-efficient, which can be a problem for buildings like sports stadiums that get large crowds. And a lot of existing buildings are not built that way, but people still need to pee.

And other buildings that get large crowds...

like schools, for instance.

[Atheist Collective]

It is just indicative of the state of the culture wars, that conservatives keep moving the goal posts. First it was gay marriage, then "gay" cake, and now bathrooms. I wonder what is the next "last stand" for social conservatives.

[MFrost]

it is also easy to guarantee no harm will occur when its not your child on the line... I at least was attempting to provide a solution which would be acceptable to both parties vs. trying to make this a fight which for all intents and purposes is unnecessary. What the president did was poke at a sensitive Political issue as hard as he could in an attempt to change the election year conversation. It has worked in the past, let me poke at and have some fun with conservatives as we make them look intolerant. Unfortunately my response allows for conservatives to give you exactly what you want without all of the political rigor moroe you were hoping for. they solve the perceived problem and get to say -- what problem? you still upset why?

------------------------------------------------

you really should not challenge people before doing at least a few hours of independent research on the subject.

let me know if some of these are unacceptable or if you need more or if you would like to broaden the scope and go international...

1. -------------------------------------------
Man Dressed as Woman Arrested for Spying Into Mall Bathroom Stall, Police Say

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local ... 32041.html

2. -------------------------------------------

Tue Mar 4, 2014 - 4:57 pm EST
Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ to assault women in shelter

http://linkis.com/www.lifesitenews.com/12D80


3. -------------------------------------------

Palmdale man arrested for videotaping in women’s bathroom
by M. Dilworth • May 14, 2013
Jason Pomare

PALMDALE – A 33-year-old Palmdale man who allegedly dressed as a woman while secretly videotaping females using a department store bathroom was charged with several misdemeanor counts Tuesday, authorities said.

http://ktla.com/2013/05/14/da-cross-dre ... -bathroom/
4. -------------------------------------------

University Of Toronto Gender-Neutral Bathrooms Reduced After Voyeurism Reports

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/10/06 ... 53970.html

5. -------------------------------------------

Man accused of filming women in Smyrna park’s bathroom
http://wkrn.com/2016/04/07/man-charged- ... restrooms/

6. -------------------------------------------

Stamford transgender person charged with sexually assaulting minor

John Nickerson, Staff Writer Updated 10:33 pm, Wednesday, June 8, 2011

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/ar ... 414876.php

7. -------------------------------------------

Man in Barbie costume attacks woman in bathroom

http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/03/02/man- ... -bathroom/

8.-------------------------------------------

Transgender Advocates Say Men Dressed As Women Will Never Harass Women. Yeah, That’s Not True.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/4844/tran ... stigiacomo

9. -------------------------------------------

Woman allegedly forced 13-year-old to perform sex acts on her when she was a man in Frome

http://www.fromestandard.co.uk/Woman-al ... story.html

10. -------------------------------------------

Tuesday, October 12, 2010
Cross-dressing Peeper Infiltrates Cal Women's Locker Room

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/92510/arc ... ocker-room

11. -------------------------------------------

Cops: Locker Room Transvestite Has Cheerleader Fantasy

https://web.archive.org/web/20120114055 ... etail.html
GREENSBURG, Pa. -- A 48-year-old man allegedly dressed as a woman and went into a girls' locker room at Greensburg Salem High School, police told Channel 4 Action News reporter Marcie Cipriani.

12. -------------------------------------------

Cross-dressing man sentenced for battery
https://archive.is/1Wu9k#selection-675.0-675.40

The question is if this is an increase in the number of problems, beyond the amount of voyeurism and sexual assault that happen when bathrooms are segregated by sex. If you dig for them, you can find stories of white people getting assaulted by black people at racially desegregated businesses and schools, but I don't think many people would consider that a compelling reason to bring back racial segregation.

the list was a response to and i quote
-----------------------------------------------
Can you name one case where a transgender attacked a child?

Can you name one case where a pedo dressed as a woman and attacked a child in a public bathroom?

This is nothing more then "See fellow Christians I am defending you from the plague of lgbt."
--------------------------------------------

which was inferring these types of events do not occur, in an attempt to make it look like there is nothing to see here folks move along,

now that you have a list the fence poles are moved to is it an increase.

I responded to the challenge presented ie. Name One -- i went out of my way to name 12 just in case some were unacceptable examples, i also offered to bring forth more cases if 12 was insufficient or if non representative of the actual issue as in limited to just the USA, i offered to go International.

As for increases in events that is subjective based on who is compiling the data and the data sources made available to the researcher and how they chose to interpret the various cases presented.

[Ifreann]

Almost as though people aren't willing to compromise on equality and spend an absolute fortune on pandering to bigots.

if it works, and the tax payers of those states are willing to pay for it, why would you care?

Because, as above, I don't think it's a worthwhile endeavour to try to keep bigots happy.

This could have been done in the 60s. Make every bathroom in the US single occupancy so that white racists never have to share bathroom space with blacks. Do you think the US should have pandered to racists then, to keep both parties happy?

[Vassenor]

Well excuse me if I have a problem with being considered guilty until proven innocent of being some sort of rapist.

[Atheist Collective]

if it works, and the tax payers of those states are willing to pay for it, why would you care?

Because, as above, I don't think it's a worthwhile endeavour to try to keep bigots happy.

This could have been done in the 60s. Make every bathroom in the US single occupancy so that white racists never have to share bathroom space with blacks. Do you think the US should have pandered to racists then, to keep both parties happy?

What is sad, is that back in the 70's the right used the same bathroom "safety" arguments to derail the equal rights amendment. Last year in Houston the equal rights ordinance, was defeated thanks to the same bathroom "safety" argument. In the minds of the voters, the whole ordinance was about bathrooms, instead of the very broad protections they offered.

[MFrost]

i'm not saying it has to be efficient, just a solution which should make both parties happy... if people in Texas and N.Carolina are willing to pay for it for their own peace of mind, should we fault them for it?

The problem with trying to keep both parties happy is that one party thinks the other party are a bunch of delusional perverts out to rape children. They're not going to be happy unless the people they hate are suffering.

perhaps it has more to do with outside interests imposing moral values on them they are uncomfortable with. in some countries they stone girls to death for getting raped, its their moral values. i would not want these imposed upon my community just because less than 1% of the population living in my community believes this is the moral justice i need to live by.

but then again i digress the question was would you fault them for providing single occupancy bathrooms in compliance with your desires, or would you still be running around complaining this is not good enough for me...

[MFrost]

Because, as above, I don't think it's a worthwhile endeavour to try to keep bigots happy.

This could have been done in the 60s. Make every bathroom in the US single occupancy so that white racists never have to share bathroom space with blacks. Do you think the US should have pandered to racists then, to keep both parties happy?

What is sad, is that back in the 70's the right used the same bathroom "safety" arguments to derail the equal rights amendment. Last year in Houston the equal rights ordinance, was defeated thanks to the same bathroom "safety" argument. In the minds of the voters, the whole ordinance was about bathrooms, instead of the very broad protections they offered.

lol, the black / white argument does not work here because the buttocks of a black man touch the toilet seat and would to the white separatist been unacceptable for usage by their elite white buttocks

i do not see this argument being made as in i.e. my buttocks should never touch the toilet seat which has at any point in time been sat upon by a transgendered person. in which case the argument above would make sense.

[USS Monitor]

Single occupancy restrooms are fine, but they aren't as space-efficient, which can be a problem for buildings like sports stadiums that get large crowds. And a lot of existing buildings are not built that way, but people still need to pee.

And other buildings that get large crowds...

like schools, for instance.

Yeah, depending on the size of the school and how it is built, it isn't always practical.

[Vassenor]

What is sad, is that back in the 70's the right used the same bathroom "safety" arguments to derail the equal rights amendment. Last year in Houston the equal rights ordinance, was defeated thanks to the same bathroom "safety" argument. In the minds of the voters, the whole ordinance was about bathrooms, instead of the very broad protections they offered.

lol, the black / white argument does not work here because the buttocks of a black man touch the toilet seat and would to the white separatist been unacceptable for usage by their elite white buttocks

i do not see this argument being made as in i.e. my buttocks should never touch the toilet seat which has at any point in time been sat upon by a transgendered person. in which case the argument above would make sense.

I don't understand.

[USS Monitor]

The question is if this is an increase in the number of problems, beyond the amount of voyeurism and sexual assault that happen when bathrooms are segregated by sex. If you dig for them, you can find stories of white people getting assaulted by black people at racially desegregated businesses and schools, but I don't think many people would consider that a compelling reason to bring back racial segregation.

the list was a response to and i quote
-----------------------------------------------
Can you name one case where a transgender attacked a child?

Can you name one case where a pedo dressed as a woman and attacked a child in a public bathroom?

This is nothing more then "See fellow Christians I am defending you from the plague of lgbt."
--------------------------------------------

which was inferring these types of events do not occur, in an attempt to make it look like there is nothing to see here folks move along,

now that you have a list the fence poles are moved to is it an increase.

I responded to the challenge presented ie. Name One -- i went out of my way to name 12 just in case some were unacceptable examples, i also offered to bring forth more cases if 12 was insufficient or if non representative of the actual issue as in limited to just the USA, i offered to go International.

As for increases in events that is subjective based on who is compiling the data and the data sources made available to the researcher and how they chose to interpret the various cases presented.

If you can't objectively show an increase in problems, then it's not enough of an issue to justify discriminating.

[Atheist Collective]

What is sad, is that back in the 70's the right used the same bathroom "safety" arguments to derail the equal rights amendment. Last year in Houston the equal rights ordinance, was defeated thanks to the same bathroom "safety" argument. In the minds of the voters, the whole ordinance was about bathrooms, instead of the very broad protections they offered.

lol, the black / white argument does not work here because the buttocks of a black man touch the toilet seat and would to the white separatist been unacceptable for usage by their elite white buttocks

i do not see this argument being made as in i.e. my buttocks should never touch the toilet seat which has at any point in time been sat upon by a transgendered person. in which case the argument above would make sense.

I'm not sure what you mean. The argument holds because at the time the idea was to keep blacks from using the same facilities as whites. Just as today the effect is to keep transgender people from using the same facilities as cisgender people. It is segregation just in a slightly different sense. The argument back then was "you are not white, stay away from this bathroom/ fountain". Today it is "you are not a real woman/man, stay away from this bathroom".

[MFrost]

Single occupancy restrooms are fine, but they aren't as space-efficient, which can be a problem for buildings like sports stadiums that get large crowds. And a lot of existing buildings are not built that way, but people still need to pee.

And other buildings that get large crowds...

like schools, for instance.

I'm fairly confident schools in Texas have plenty of room to accommodate single occupancy restrooms and showers. besides the footprint of the actual bathrooms does not need to change. and the cost of plumbing the whole thing is already taken care of. The added expense is in enclosing each of the individual stalls completely i.e a little drywall. Last time i looked drywall was not very expensive. large arenas they make the money and if the owner of the Arena felt it was worth the expenditure it is his Arena, why would you care?

[Atheist Collective]

And other buildings that get large crowds...

like schools, for instance.

I'm fairly confident schools in Texas have plenty of room to accommodate single occupancy restrooms and showers. besides the footprint of the actual bathrooms does not need to change. and the cost of plumbing the whole thing is already taken care of. The added expense is in enclosing each of the individual stalls completely i.e a little drywall. Last time i looked drywall was not very expensive. large arenas they make the money and if the owner of the Arena felt it was worth the expenditure it is his Arena, why would you care?

So we should spend profligately in order to please a few people whom suddenly out of the blue, decided that transgender rights pose a public safety risk?

[Noraika]

lol, the black / white argument does not work here because the buttocks of a black man touch the toilet seat and would to the white separatist been unacceptable for usage by their elite white buttocks

i do not see this argument being made as in i.e. my buttocks should never touch the toilet seat which has at any point in time been sat upon by a transgendered person. in which case the argument above would make sense.

I'm not sure what you mean. The argument holds because at the time the idea was to keep blacks from using the same facilities as whites. Just as today the effect is to keep transgender people from using the same facilities as cisgender people. It is segregation just in a slightly different sense. The argument back then was "you are not white, stay away from this bathroom/ fountain". Today it is "you are not a real woman/man, stay away from this bathroom".

In addition, the law passed in no way hampers the ability for perverts to gain access to facilities, nor does it improve bathroom safety. The police in North Carolina themselves have already said this law is unenforceable. All it does is give voice to harmful prejudice, and propagate a false narrative, which several countries and states have already states, and even those Northern Carolina police departments which accepted invitation to comment, have already openly contradicted that allowing access of individuals to the facilities and accommodations befitting their gender identity does not compromise bathroom safety, or lead to an increase in instances, nor is the law used or abused, despite some of these states and countries having had such regulations for over a decade.

[Gauthier]

Will this never bloody end?

Sure, once everyone stops being dicks and simmers down a bit with the needless panic over imagined offenses.

The reason this all happened is a bunch of dicks were obsessed with making sure dicks go into the dicks' room and pussies go into the pussies' room.

[MFrost]

lol, the black / white argument does not work here because the buttocks of a black man touch the toilet seat and would to the white separatist been unacceptable for usage by their elite white buttocks

i do not see this argument being made as in i.e. my buttocks should never touch the toilet seat which has at any point in time been sat upon by a transgendered person. in which case the argument above would make sense.

I'm not sure what you mean. The argument holds because at the time the idea was to keep blacks from using the same facilities as whites. Just as today the effect is to keep transgender people from using the same facilities as cisgender people. It is segregation just in a slightly different sense. The argument back then was "you are not white, stay away from this bathroom/ fountain". Today it is "you are not a real woman/man, stay away from this bathroom".

it does not hold because in a single occupancy bathroom you would essentially be sharing the same facilities. Now if the row of single occupancy bathrooms was divided up as these 3 are for Whites only and these 3 over here are for Blacks only then you have a case. especially if i was presenting my proposal these 3 stalls are for men, these 3 stalls are for women, and these 3 stalls are for transgendered. This is not the case all stalls are of equal usage. If we had offered this solution to the separatists they would have asked for the separation as noted above, so no gain would have been made.

[Galloism]

And other buildings that get large crowds...

like schools, for instance.

I'm fairly confident schools in Texas have plenty of room to accommodate single occupancy restrooms and showers. besides the footprint of the actual bathrooms does not need to change. and the cost of plumbing the whole thing is already taken care of. The added expense is in enclosing each of the individual stalls completely i.e a little drywall. Last time i looked drywall was not very expensive. large arenas they make the money and if the owner of the Arena felt it was worth the expenditure it is his Arena, why would you care?

If you're going to have the 'walls' so paper thin that they are essentially no different from stalls, and sinks in a common area of the bathroom (IE, where no new plumbing is required), what's the difference between that and a unisex public bathroom?