Stopping Edu. Funds for Disabled Students over Bathroom Laws

[Internationalist Bastard]

Will this never bloody end?

[Linux and the X]

So Obama should reward a state for passively encouraging a pogrom on transgender people?

Cutting off funds is beyond his role, the courts decide punishments for non compliance with the law, not the executive.

20 USC § 1682 specifically allows funding to be pulled by the funding agency for violations of Title IX. They do have to attempt to obtain voluntary compliance, but if they find that won't work, they already have statutory approval to terminate funding.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Will this never bloody end?

Sure, once everyone stops being dicks and simmers down a bit with the needless panic over imagined offenses.

I still say we need to stop yelling at one another across the country, and call to account those responsible for the mess to begin with - politicians and the media. Without that impetus, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Transgender people are not a this year's occurrence any more than gay people are, or any number of varied sorts of people. We've all been using the bathrooms together for like ever now, whether we're masculine-looking women, or feminine-looking men both of straight variety, or all the rest, and few if any have been the wiser. It was a non-issue before, if we had any goram sense as a citizenry, it'd be a non-issue now, with all of us standing up, pointing at the politicians, and demanding they stop their asshattery and do their goram jobs, which is to REPRESENT WE, THE PEOPLE. Not their thrice-damned agendas, party politicking, and pocket-lining.

Grr. Argh. >_o

[Galloism]

Not at all, but the mere point is that there's no proof that segregated facilities are in any way beneficial or necessary.

Meh. Anyway, shared bathroom aren't in any way more "beneficial or necessary" than regular ones. And the fact that society who thrived on slavery and viewed women as an object that should be kept at home and never displayed to the eyes of any other man than their husband or brother/father used them don't really sound much like an argument in their favor.

Just saying your "common sense it has to be that way" is neither common sense nor has to be that way.

A unisex bathroom is undeniably more efficient, if nothing else.

[Dread Lady Nathicana]

Meh. Anyway, shared bathroom aren't in any way more "beneficial or necessary" than regular ones. And the fact that society who thrived on slavery and viewed women as an object that should be kept at home and never displayed to the eyes of any other man than their husband or brother/father used them don't really sound much like an argument in their favor.

Just saying your "common sense it has to be that way" is neither common sense nor has to be that way.

A unisex bathroom is undeniably more efficient, if nothing else.

Something that has something for just about everyone and in ample supply like that, perhaps? Whatever your plumbing, even if you have some disabilities or need wheelchair access, whether you're nursing or need a place to sit, or change little ones - regardless of your gender - a place to just wash up, drop off trash, and one that has enough privacy to suffice without having so much that a person having a problem couldn't get help?

Sounds reasonable. One almost wonders why they haven't done more of it, neh? -_-

[Keshokif]

The whole thing about stopping funds for disabled students is only heresay. Even so, I don't think it needs to be an either-or thing. Both are important, neither should be left out. Money to fund both could easily be taken out of the defence budget - it's superfluously large these days.

[Ifreann]

The whole thing about stopping funds for disabled students is only heresay. Even so, I don't think it needs to be an either-or thing. Both are important, neither should be left out. Money to fund both could easily be taken out of the defence budget - it's superfluously large these days.

It's not really a matter of competing interests for limited funding.

[Conserative Morality]

Sure, once everyone stops being dicks and simmers down a bit with the needless panic over imagined offenses.

I still say we need to stop yelling at one another across the country, and call to account those responsible for the mess to begin with - politicians and the media. Without that impetus, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Transgender people are not a this year's occurrence any more than gay people are, or any number of varied sorts of people. We've all been using the bathrooms together for like ever now, whether we're masculine-looking women, or feminine-looking men both of straight variety, or all the rest, and few if any have been the wiser. It was a non-issue before, if we had any goram sense as a citizenry, it'd be a non-issue now, with all of us standing up, pointing at the politicians, and demanding they stop their asshattery and do their goram jobs, which is to REPRESENT WE, THE PEOPLE. Not their thrice-damned agendas, party politicking, and pocket-lining.

Grr. Argh. >_o

You're only fooling yourself if you think that this is an imaginary issue created by politicians and the media. Transphobia is huge, particularly among conservatives.

[The Black Forrest]

Sure, once everyone stops being dicks and simmers down a bit with the needless panic over imagined offenses.

I still say we need to stop yelling at one another across the country, and call to account those responsible for the mess to begin with - politicians and the media. Without that impetus, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Transgender people are not a this year's occurrence any more than gay people are, or any number of varied sorts of people. We've all been using the bathrooms together for like ever now, whether we're masculine-looking women, or feminine-looking men both of straight variety, or all the rest, and few if any have been the wiser. It was a non-issue before, if we had any goram sense as a citizenry, it'd be a non-issue now, with all of us standing up, pointing at the politicians, and demanding they stop their asshattery and do their goram jobs, which is to REPRESENT WE, THE PEOPLE. Not their thrice-damned agendas, party politicking, and pocket-lining.

Grr. Argh. >_o

You're only fooling yourself if you think that this is an imaginary issue created by politicians and the media. Transphobia is huge, particularly among conservatives.

Indeed. I recently had a "discussion" with a woman who couldn't distinguish a crossdresser from a transgender.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Will this never bloody end?

Sure, once everyone stops being dicks and simmers down a bit with the needless panic over imagined offenses.

I still say we need to stop yelling at one another across the country, and call to account those responsible for the mess to begin with - politicians and the media. Without that impetus, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Transgender people are not a this year's occurrence any more than gay people are, or any number of varied sorts of people. We've all been using the bathrooms together for like ever now, whether we're masculine-looking women, or feminine-looking men both of straight variety, or all the rest, and few if any have been the wiser. It was a non-issue before, if we had any goram sense as a citizenry, it'd be a non-issue now, with all of us standing up, pointing at the politicians, and demanding they stop their asshattery and do their goram jobs, which is to REPRESENT WE, THE PEOPLE. Not their thrice-damned agendas, party politicking, and pocket-lining.

Grr. Argh. >_o

You said what I was thinking. Almost word for word. Creepy that

[MFrost]

what event? some opportunistic predator leverages this policy to their advantage and sexually assaults a young girl or boy. I am not saying transgenders are the risk I am saying the policy opens the door or acts as an enabler to this risk as i stated before we are not dealing with adults here

Ok. Well. Problem is perverts have already being doing the photo thing for awhile and *shock* they are punished when discovered. This law does NOTHING to curb that.

but children who may or may not know better, or may act out on a whim. would you bet the million dollar bond that I am wrong and make it payable to whoever the victim is of a sexual assault in a transgender accessible bathroom anywhere in the country.

Can you name one case where a transgender attacked a child?

Can you name one case where a pedo dressed as a woman and attacked a child in a public bathroom?

This is nothing more then "See fellow Christians I am defending you from the plague of lgbt."

i feel like you are a champion of the cause, the safety of those i feel your cause would put at risk can be guaranteed by you. your confidence in assuring those around you seems to project a certainty that you would be willing to back up with financial risk to yourself. in essence i am saying i feel this bridge is unsafe and asking you to pay for any damages in the event damage is incurred based on your guarantee that this bridge is safe.

It's easy to defend something when you don't have to pay for it. Bet you would be screaming a different thing if the goverment said we are going to give you a tax to "protect the children" in public bathrooms.

if my proposal is no different in your estimation from what is currently available then why would you want to fight it, it essentialy gives you what you want access to whatever toilet you wish to use. Please explain how my proposal discriminates against any transgendered person or denies them access to the toilet of their choice.

They had access before!

it is also easy to guarantee no harm will occur when its not your child on the line... I at least was attempting to provide a solution which would be acceptable to both parties vs. trying to make this a fight which for all intents and purposes is unnecessary. What the president did was poke at a sensitive Political issue as hard as he could in an attempt to change the election year conversation. It has worked in the past, let me poke at and have some fun with conservatives as we make them look intolerant. Unfortunately my response allows for conservatives to give you exactly what you want without all of the political rigor moroe you were hoping for. they solve the perceived problem and get to say -- what problem? you still upset why?

------------------------------------------------

you really should not challenge people before doing at least a few hours of independent research on the subject.

let me know if some of these are unacceptable or if you need more or if you would like to broaden the scope and go international...

1. -------------------------------------------
Man Dressed as Woman Arrested for Spying Into Mall Bathroom Stall, Police Say

http://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local ... 32041.html

2. -------------------------------------------

Tue Mar 4, 2014 - 4:57 pm EST
Sexual predator jailed after claiming to be ‘transgender’ to assault women in shelter

http://linkis.com/www.lifesitenews.com/12D80


3. -------------------------------------------

Palmdale man arrested for videotaping in women’s bathroom
by M. Dilworth • May 14, 2013
Jason Pomare

PALMDALE – A 33-year-old Palmdale man who allegedly dressed as a woman while secretly videotaping females using a department store bathroom was charged with several misdemeanor counts Tuesday, authorities said.

http://ktla.com/2013/05/14/da-cross-dre ... -bathroom/
4. -------------------------------------------

University Of Toronto Gender-Neutral Bathrooms Reduced After Voyeurism Reports

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2015/10/06 ... 53970.html

5. -------------------------------------------

Man accused of filming women in Smyrna park’s bathroom
http://wkrn.com/2016/04/07/man-charged- ... restrooms/

6. -------------------------------------------

Stamford transgender person charged with sexually assaulting minor

John Nickerson, Staff Writer Updated 10:33 pm, Wednesday, June 8, 2011

http://www.stamfordadvocate.com/news/ar ... 414876.php

7. -------------------------------------------

Man in Barbie costume attacks woman in bathroom

http://fox5sandiego.com/2014/03/02/man- ... -bathroom/

8.-------------------------------------------

Transgender Advocates Say Men Dressed As Women Will Never Harass Women. Yeah, That’s Not True.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/4844/tran ... stigiacomo

9. -------------------------------------------

Woman allegedly forced 13-year-old to perform sex acts on her when she was a man in Frome

http://www.fromestandard.co.uk/Woman-al ... story.html

10. -------------------------------------------

Tuesday, October 12, 2010
Cross-dressing Peeper Infiltrates Cal Women's Locker Room

http://www.eastbayexpress.com/92510/arc ... ocker-room

11. -------------------------------------------

Cops: Locker Room Transvestite Has Cheerleader Fantasy

https://web.archive.org/web/20120114055 ... etail.html
GREENSBURG, Pa. -- A 48-year-old man allegedly dressed as a woman and went into a girls' locker room at Greensburg Salem High School, police told Channel 4 Action News reporter Marcie Cipriani.

12. -------------------------------------------

Cross-dressing man sentenced for battery
https://archive.is/1Wu9k#selection-675.0-675.40

[Internationalist Bastard]

Sure, once everyone stops being dicks and simmers down a bit with the needless panic over imagined offenses.

I still say we need to stop yelling at one another across the country, and call to account those responsible for the mess to begin with - politicians and the media. Without that impetus, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Transgender people are not a this year's occurrence any more than gay people are, or any number of varied sorts of people. We've all been using the bathrooms together for like ever now, whether we're masculine-looking women, or feminine-looking men both of straight variety, or all the rest, and few if any have been the wiser. It was a non-issue before, if we had any goram sense as a citizenry, it'd be a non-issue now, with all of us standing up, pointing at the politicians, and demanding they stop their asshattery and do their goram jobs, which is to REPRESENT WE, THE PEOPLE. Not their thrice-damned agendas, party politicking, and pocket-lining.

Grr. Argh. >_o

You're only fooling yourself if you think that this is an imaginary issue created by politicians and the media. Transphobia is huge, particularly among conservatives.

It's nlt recent issue, it's just like she said. Trans people in bathrooms weren't even considered a problem until this law was passed in North Carolina. Now it's just a shit show of dick measuring at who can make the biggest law

[Keshokif]

The whole thing about stopping funds for disabled students is only heresay. Even so, I don't think it needs to be an either-or thing. Both are important, neither should be left out. Money to fund both could easily be taken out of the defence budget - it's superfluously large these days.

It's not really a matter of competing interests for limited funding.

No, but the entire problem of funding anything in America could be taken from the military.
Government healthcare? Defence Budget.
Free Tertiary Education? Defence Budget.
Education? Defence Budget.
Stopping Homelessness? Defence Budget.
Finding diplomatic solutions to things instead of intervening in an imperialist manner? Defence Budget.

[A Humanist Science]

I really see nothing wrong with gender neutral bathrooms. I guarantee that peeing and pooping are pretty mundane activities, all the way around.

The thing I don't understand about opponenta of gender neutral restrooms...are public restroom toilets in NC completely exposed and open? Like no stalls or individual cubicals at all? If so, that would strike me as bizarre even with gender segregation, just cause who wants to poop in public?

But some of the nicer public restrooms I've used have cubicals with full floor to ceiling walls and doors, so the only truly common area is the sinks. I cannot think of a compelling reason why I can't wash my hands in public.

[Ifreann]

It's not really a matter of competing interests for limited funding.

No, but the entire problem of funding anything in America could be taken from the military.
Government healthcare? Defence Budget.
Free Tertiary Education? Defence Budget.
Education? Defence Budget.
Stopping Homelessness? Defence Budget.
Finding diplomatic solutions to things instead of intervening in an imperialist manner? Defence Budget.

This isn't a problem of funding something. The money is there. But states that discriminate against LGBT students aren't going to get it. You could put the entire US budget into education and nothing about this issue would change.

[Conserative Morality]

It's nlt recent issue, it's just like she said. Trans people in bathrooms weren't even considered a problem until this law was passed in North Carolina. Now it's just a shit show of dick measuring at who can make the biggest law

Right, so I suppose this means before anti-trans laws are passed trans people aren't considered problematic in backwards areas?

Or perhaps it just means that extralegal means of social repression were more effective in the face of overwhelming disdain and apathy. This is a reaction to increased tolerance in society, not a sudden outburst of previously-nonexistent transphobic repression.

And I can tell you that I've been hearing people have issues with trans individuals bring up bathrooms for fucking years now.

[Internationalist Bastard]

It's nlt recent issue, it's just like she said. Trans people in bathrooms weren't even considered a problem until this law was passed in North Carolina. Now it's just a shit show of dick measuring at who can make the biggest law

Right, so I suppose this means before anti-trans laws are passed trans people aren't considered problematic in backwards areas?

Or perhaps it just means that extralegal means of social repression were more effective in the face of overwhelming disdain and apathy. This is a reaction to increased tolerance in society, not a sudden outburst of previously-nonexistent transphobic repression.

And I can tell you that I've been hearing people have issues with trans individuals bring up bathrooms for fucking years now.

Really, cuz I always just walk into womans room in South Carolina, nobody ever said anything

[Keshokif]

No, but the entire problem of funding anything in America could be taken from the military.
Government healthcare? Defence Budget.
Free Tertiary Education? Defence Budget.
Education? Defence Budget.
Stopping Homelessness? Defence Budget.
Finding diplomatic solutions to things instead of intervening in an imperialist manner? Defence Budget.

This isn't a problem of funding something. The money is there. But states that discriminate against LGBT students aren't going to get it. You could put the entire US budget into education and nothing about this issue would change.

The question, I thought, was whether the inclusiveness of transgender people justifies overlooking disabled students in terms of funding, to which I say 'no'. I don't think it's trying to say that states which discriminate against LGBT students won't get added funding for disabled students, unless I am very much mistaken.

EDIT: In the OP, I mean. Generally, yes, it is a human rights issue which needs to be addressed, but the topic is addressing whether funding for one would supersede the funding for another.

[Conserative Morality]

Really, cuz I always just walk into womans room in South Carolina, nobody ever said anything

Count yourself lucky.

Mic's Derrick Clifton wrote that "roughly 70% of trans people have reported being denied entrance, assaulted or harassed while trying to use a restroom," according to a 2013 Williams Institute report.

[MFrost]

I really see nothing wrong with gender neutral bathrooms. I guarantee that peeing and pooping are pretty mundane activities, all the way around.

The thing I don't understand about opponenta of gender neutral restrooms...are public restroom toilets in NC completely exposed and open? Like no stalls or individual cubicals at all? If so, that would strike me as bizarre even with gender segregation, just cause who wants to poop in public?

But some of the nicer public restrooms I've used have cubicals with full floor to ceiling walls and doors, so the only truly common area is the sinks. I cannot think of a compelling reason why I can't wash my hands in public.

i tried to offer the single occupancy restroom as a solution, but for some odd reason this group feels this is not good enough, or that it does not really solve anything... go figure.

[Internationalist Bastard]

Really, cuz I always just walk into womans room in South Carolina, nobody ever said anything

Count yourself lucky.

Mic's Derrick Clifton wrote that "roughly 70% of trans people have reported being denied entrance, assaulted or harassed while trying to use a restroom," according to a 2013 Williams Institute report.

What can I say, never been a problem to me. Still doesn't change the fact the law was passed for idiotic reasons and doesn't actually do anything.

[Conserative Morality]

What can I say, never been a problem to me. Still doesn't change the fact the law was passed for idiotic reasons and doesn't actually do anything.

Idiotic reasons doesn't mean reasons made up by politicians and the media. That's all I was arguing against. This is a problem with the ignorant opinions of people in general.

[MFrost]

It's nlt recent issue, it's just like she said. Trans people in bathrooms weren't even considered a problem until this law was passed in North Carolina. Now it's just a shit show of dick measuring at who can make the biggest law

Right, so I suppose this means before anti-trans laws are passed trans people aren't considered problematic in backwards areas?

Or perhaps it just means that extralegal means of social repression were more effective in the face of overwhelming disdain and apathy. This is a reaction to increased tolerance in society, not a sudden outburst of previously-nonexistent transphobic repression.

And I can tell you that I've been hearing people have issues with trans individuals bring up bathrooms for fucking years now.

would you be opposed to using single occupancy bathrooms or single occupancy showers if states like N.Carolina or Texas decided to solve the problem this way?

[Ifreann]

This isn't a problem of funding something. The money is there. But states that discriminate against LGBT students aren't going to get it. You could put the entire US budget into education and nothing about this issue would change.

The question, I thought, was whether the inclusiveness of transgender people justifies overlooking disabled students in terms of funding, to which I say 'no'.

That is how the OP and others are trying to frame the issue, to make is seem like the Obama Administration is denying an education to disabled children in order to push their liberal social experiment on the US...

I don't think it's trying to say that states which discriminate against LGBT students won't get added funding for disabled students, unless I am very much mistaken.

...but this is a more accurate description of what is happening.

[Conserative Morality]

would you be opposed to using single occupancy bathrooms or single occupancy showers if states like N.Carolina or Texas decided to solve the problem this way?

Don't give a damn if they can utilize the space as efficiently as they do with multiple-occupant bathrooms. Not sure that banning public restrooms is a very efficient way to go about things and really would cause more problems than it solves.

I've never used anything other than a single-occupancy shower though, because public showers are inherently creepy.