Knife attack in Munich, 1 dead - Islamism or not?

[Stormopolis]

Make of them whatever you want. I know what's true and what isn't. I've seen plenty of evidence of it firsthand. But hey, you'll probably just ignore it because you don't like my username. Since this threat is apparently now about ignoring factoids because you don't like them, here's some fun cartoons:



Which points in an interesting direction. Hanging people, throwing them off buildings for being gay, all that jazz is apparently okay whn you're a moslem. Why do all normal social mores get to fly out the window when islam is involved? If I refused to shake hands with a woman, they'd tell me to do it and stop being an asshole.

[Zeinbrad]

Make of them whatever you want. I know what's true and what isn't. I've seen plenty of evidence of it firsthand. But hey, you'll probably just ignore it because you don't like my username. Since this threat is apparently now about ignoring factoids because you don't like them, here's some fun cartoons:

(Image)

Being rude and annoying isn't helping you case.

[Stormopolis]

Make of them whatever you want. I know what's true and what isn't. I've seen plenty of evidence of it firsthand. But hey, you'll probably just ignore it because you don't like my username. Since this threat is apparently now about ignoring factoids because you don't like them, here's some fun cartoons:

(Image)

Being rude and annoying isn't helping you case.

Showing you facts and figures isn't either. So what is a man to do?

[Alvecia]

Make of them whatever you want. I know what's true and what isn't. I've seen plenty of evidence of it firsthand. But hey, you'll probably just ignore it because you don't like my username.

First, annecdotal evidence, i.e. firsthand experience, is the absolute worst kind of evidence.
Second, refusing to accept proper evidence because it doens't fit your worldview is wholy irrational, making any further conversation with you pointless. If nothing will change your mind, why bother trying.
Third, I don't ignore your "evidence" because I don't like you (persecution complex much?), I ignore your evidence because it's utter shit.

[Alvecia]

Being rude and annoying isn't helping you case.

Showing you facts and figures isn't either. So what is a man to do?

Figures aren't automatically right because it's Math. You can do Math wrong. Your Math is wrong.

[Zeinbrad]

Being rude and annoying isn't helping you case.

Showing you facts and figures isn't either. So what is a man to do?

Accept the flaws in his facts and figures and understand you can misinterpret data and can be wrong.

[Acarno]

We're getting off topic here...

[Pope Joan]

A man named Athur Da Rosa ran into an Italian restaurant in Boston and started stabbing people.He also went on a rampage at Macy's before being being shot.

Where is the fear mongering about the dreaded Italian Catholic terror plot?

[Gauthier]

A man named Athur Da Rosa ran into an Italian restaurant in Boston and started stabbing people.He also went on a rampage at Macy's before being being shot.

Where is the fear mongering about the dreaded Italian Catholic terror plot?

Ebil Muslim Theorem in action.

[Purple Robed Empire]

A man named Athur Da Rosa ran into an Italian restaurant in Boston and started stabbing people.He also went on a rampage at Macy's before being being shot.

Where is the fear mongering about the dreaded Italian Catholic terror plot?

I doubt he shouted "In the name of the pope" or something similar to show it was a Catholic inspired crime. When you cry "Allah Akbar" before you going on a killing spree it shows that it is an Islam inspired crime. That aside I doubt it was a plot by an organization as it was too small time.

[Vassenor]

A man named Athur Da Rosa ran into an Italian restaurant in Boston and started stabbing people.He also went on a rampage at Macy's before being being shot.

Where is the fear mongering about the dreaded Italian Catholic terror plot?

I doubt he shouted "In the name of the pope" or something similar to show it was a Catholic inspired crime. When you cry "Allah Akbar" before you going on a killing spree it shows that it is an Islam inspired crime. That aside I doubt it was a plot by an organization as it was too small time.

I thought there was still no actual evidence he said that.

[Pope Joan]

A man named Athur Da Rosa ran into an Italian restaurant in Boston and started stabbing people.He also went on a rampage at Macy's before being being shot.

Where is the fear mongering about the dreaded Italian Catholic terror plot?

I doubt he shouted "In the name of the pope" or something similar to show it was a Catholic inspired crime. When you cry "Allah Akbar" before you going on a killing spree it shows that it is an Islam inspired crime. That aside I doubt it was a plot by an organization as it was too small time.

Boston is stuffed with Catholics at all levels of administration. They probably hushed up the reports of his battle cry! Except the Pope isn't real popular there now, so he probably shouted "Adore the BVM!"

[Purple Robed Empire]

I doubt he shouted "In the name of the pope" or something similar to show it was a Catholic inspired crime. When you cry "Allah Akbar" before you going on a killing spree it shows that it is an Islam inspired crime. That aside I doubt it was a plot by an organization as it was too small time.

I thought there was still no actual evidence he said that.

IRRC there are a number of eye witnesses.

[Alvecia]

I thought there was still no actual evidence he said that.

IRRC there are a number of eye witnesses.

Not the most reliable source.

[Braecland]

A man named Athur Da Rosa ran into an Italian restaurant in Boston and started stabbing people.He also went on a rampage at Macy's before being being shot.

Where is the fear mongering about the dreaded Italian Catholic terror plot?

Nowhere, because there isn't one. Islamic terror on the other hand, is fairly common, a quantifiable and legitimate concern and a certain amount of fear mongering can be expected. You are not an idiot.

[Insaeldor]

IRRC there are a number of eye witnesses.

Not the most reliable source.

It one thing if it's one persons claim. It's another of several people are describing very similar events from multiple angles and viewpoints.

[Purple Robed Empire]

Not the most reliable source.

It one thing if it's one persons claim. It's another of several people are describing very similar events from multiple angles and viewpoints.

Particularly when it is a religion particularly known for religious violence. There are no Catholic equivalents to 9/11 or the Paris or Belgium attacks. There are no Catholic equivalents to Al Qaeda and ISIS. Even the IRA at its worst confined its terrorist attacks mainly to the British Isles, it didn't drag in the US or France.

[Insaeldor]

Another Muslim manipulated by Radical Jihadist's disgusting interpretation of Islam it seems. Sadly this is what happens when you have issues such as Assimilation and intrigration not being achieved. It's sad especially when it's clear that these groups use and manipulated the anger and frustration of an isolated group in order to sue their bidding. I almost feel sorry for the guy. An though I feel for more sorry for the family of his victim and hopefully appropriate justice is brought so the family is allowed some form of closure.

I can't really say much that hasn't already been said probably. My opinion is that the overwhelming majority of the Muslim community that opposes radicalism needs to be better at self policing its community and working with its youths to help them stay away from such ideologies. Conversely the European states need to do better with how they interact with their Muslim communities and cooperate more closely with community and religious leaders so as to help them also combat the growing trend of radicalism in these mostly poor and isolated communities.

[Insaeldor]

It one thing if it's one persons claim. It's another of several people are describing very similar events from multiple angles and viewpoints.

Particularly when it is a religion particularly known for religious violence. There are no Catholic equivalents to 9/11 or the Paris or Belgium attacks. There are no Catholic equivalents to Al Qaeda and ISIS. Even the IRA at its worst confined its terrorist attacks mainly to the British Isles, it didn't drag in the US or France.

True, although these doesn't mean it wasn't the case say a couple hundred years ago when conquistadors were waging wars of genocide and conversion against Native Americans. However that's in the past and thus not really relieve to this particular climate. To be completely honest I'm of the mind set that this is simply something will have to deal with until the ongoing civil war in Islam can boil down the same way it did in Christianity. We may need to see something comparable to the Thirty Years War to see a stronger trend toward secularism as well as us as the western world just allowing Islam to fight this out with itself.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Correlation does not imply causation. Well, unless US spending on science, technology and space has a direct effect on the number of hangings in the US.

I keep hearing that. "Correlation does not imply causation." Then what do you want, huh? You want to be shown pictures of malformed moslem babies? Or will that not prove anything because they could be anybody's baby?

Pictures don't prove anything because they're anecdotal. That's a whole different ballgame, mind. A whole different set of logical fallacies. No, correlation does not imply causation because, indeed, just because two lines on a graph match, that doesn't mean one caused the other. There might be intermediaries, there might be other unknown factors in play. Just two sets of data next to each other doesn't prove causation. Let me put it to you this way: If correlation did imply causation, it would work two ways. So, to use your example, while inbreeding could be caused by Islam, Islam could in turn be caused by inbreeding if simple correlation implied causation. The fact that it doesn't has been proven time and time again. It's basic scientific fact, and I'm sure you'll be able to find plenty of sources if you google the term.

It one thing if it's one persons claim. It's another of several people are describing very similar events from multiple angles and viewpoints.

Particularly when it is a religion particularly known for religious violence. There are no Catholic equivalents to 9/11 or the Paris or Belgium attacks. There are no Catholic equivalents to Al Qaeda and ISIS. Even the IRA at its worst confined its terrorist attacks mainly to the British Isles, it didn't drag in the US or France.

Well, there is the Army of the Lord, a brutal group that kills and destroys in the same way Boko Haram does.

And of course, people are so quick to forget slavery (which was religiously defended) and the Crusades, entire wars fought in the name of Christ. No religion has a monopoly on violence.

[Alvecia]

Not the most reliable source.

It one thing if it's one persons claim. It's another of several people are describing very similar events from multiple angles and viewpoints.

Not really. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously bad. Memory is generally faulty, false memories are a thing, and it's easy for you to mishear or mis-see something due to optical or auditory illusions.
Combine that with these days it almost expected that anyone on a killing spree will shout Ahallu Akbar.
Also, how good was the questioning? Did they ask these people "In your own words what happened?". Did they ask them "Person A said this happened, can you confirm?". How they were interviewed matter a whole lot.

[Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States]

Make of them whatever you want. I know what's true and what isn't. I've seen plenty of evidence of it firsthand. But hey, you'll probably just ignore it because you don't like my username. Since this threat is apparently now about ignoring factoids because you don't like them, here's some fun cartoons:

(Image)

Which points in an interesting direction. Hanging people, throwing them off buildings for being gay, all that jazz is apparently okay whn you're a moslem. Why do all normal social mores get to fly out the window when islam is involved? If I refused to shake hands with a woman, they'd tell me to do it and stop being an asshole.

I was wondering why all the crows avoided this thread...

[Alvecia]

It one thing if it's one persons claim. It's another of several people are describing very similar events from multiple angles and viewpoints.

Particularly when it is a religion particularly known for religious violence. There are no Catholic equivalents to 9/11 or the Paris or Belgium attacks. There are no Catholic equivalents to Al Qaeda and ISIS. Even the IRA at its worst confined its terrorist attacks mainly to the British Isles, it didn't drag in the US or France.

I think you're quibbling about methodology there. The Christians had witch burnings, Inqusitions, Crusades and the like. Just because they didn't use one particular brand of violence doesn't mean they weren't violent.

[Purple Robed Empire]

Particularly when it is a religion particularly known for religious violence. There are no Catholic equivalents to 9/11 or the Paris or Belgium attacks. There are no Catholic equivalents to Al Qaeda and ISIS. Even the IRA at its worst confined its terrorist attacks mainly to the British Isles, it didn't drag in the US or France.

True, although these doesn't mean it wasn't the case say a couple hundred years ago when conquistadors were waging wars of genocide and conversion against Native Americans. However that's in the past and thus not really relieve to this particular climate. To be completely honest I'm of the mind set that this is simply something will have to deal with until the ongoing civil war in Islam can boil down the same way it did in Christianity. We may need to see something comparable to the Thirty Years War to see a stronger trend toward secularism as well as us as the western world just allowing Islam to fight this out with itself.

I don't live a couple hundred years ago but now. Whatever happened back then can't be undone except in the way it already has been in stopping to do so. That is the best you can do.

Hopefully the Moslems don't have to go through a Thirty Years War to catch up to the Enlightenment but they may. Like I said I hope not but you may be right.

[Insaeldor]

It one thing if it's one persons claim. It's another of several people are describing very similar events from multiple angles and viewpoints.

Not really. Eyewitness testimony is notoriously bad. Memory is generally faulty, false memories are a thing, and it's easy for you to mishear or mis-see something due to optical or auditory illusions.
Combine that with these days it almost expected that anyone on a killing spree will shout Ahallu Akbar.
Also, how good was the questioning? Did they ask these people "In your own words what happened?". Did they ask them "Person A said this happened, can you confirm?". How they were interviewed matter a whole lot.

Yes, those are usually issues with singular eyewitness accounts. Not so much when you've got multiple people, who had no connection or ability to share information to still say many of the same things that others have.