US General Election Megathread: Trump vs Clinton

[AiliailiA]

Moving an amendment in March 2015, to increase the minimum wage (not by an specific amount), Sanders said " I believe nobody who works 40 hours a week should be living in poverty. Let's raise the minimum wage to a living wage".

So yeah, it's his line. But so what?

"Poverty" is ill defined, and by any definition there will be someone working full time on minimum wage who is nonetheless in poverty (due to unavoidable medical expenses for themselves or their children, high rents or utility bills where they live, or even simply by having a lot of children to care for). Even at $15.

Honestly Democrats would make more hay by concentrating on the positive economic effects of a higher minimum wage, and strongly debunking the lower employement claims made against it.

Oh and by the way, the $15 is a future target and Sander's amendment would have only raised the immediate rate to $10.10 an hour (Obama's demand also). It's $15 by 2020, by which time $15 will only be worth $13.25 in 2015 money (assuming 2.5% annual increases in CPI).

The difference between $12 and $15 is even less important if you consider that Republicans won't allow either to happen.

Well arbitrary numbers is not the solution. The minimum wage should be 50% of the median wage. Problem solved. Based on sound ecnomics not political grandstanding.

Why 50% of the median wage? Why not 45% or 60%?

That's completely arbitrary too, you've just picked a round number and called it "ecnomics".

[Novus America]

True, but what about states who might need a lower minimum wage than the national wage? Who have a lower equilibirium wage than the national equilibirium wage?

Again say the national equilibirium wage is 12. In rural Texas it is 9. In San Fran it is 15.

If you set it at 12 it is too high for rural Texas but to low for SF.

The national one is a minimum. You don't get to set it lower locally. If it's "too high" for rural Texas, then rural Texas will just have some inflation.

Well disagree. I think it should be set locally. But with the federal government ensuring it is still at the equilibirium wage. Setting it too high is bad. Setting it too low is bad.

[Novus America]

Well arbitrary numbers is not the solution. The minimum wage should be 50% of the median wage. Problem solved. Based on sound ecnomics not political grandstanding.

Why 50% of the median wage? Why not 45% or 60%?

That's completely arbitrary too, you've just picked a round number and called it "ecnomics".

No, it is not completely arbitrary. It is empirically proven.
http://www.hamiltonproject.org/assets/l ... y_dube.pdf

50% is the number that works best.

[Corrian]

So, the Turkey thing kinda took over the news. Any shenanigans go down at the RNC today?

[AiliailiA]

Why 50% of the median wage? Why not 45% or 60%?

That's completely arbitrary too, you've just picked a round number and called it "ecnomics".

No, it is not completely arbitrary. It is empirically proven.
http://www.hamiltonproject.org/assets/l ... y_dube.pdf

50% is the number that works best.

Your claim is not sustained by the paper you cited:

Is there enough empirical evidence to support increasing the minimum wage to half the full-time median wage?
The proposed increase of the minimum wage to half the full- time median wage does go somewhat above the range from which we can draw the best empirical evidence. This obstacle is difficult to avoid given the rather low levels of minimum wages since 1980. A number of additional factors make it reasonable to apply the existing estimates when evaluating this proposal, however. First, an increase in the minimum wage from 41 percent to 50 percent of the median full-time wage, while substantial, is still cautious. It maintains the ratio within both historical and international bounds. Second, existing U.S. evidence that suggests small employment effects is based on a number of states (e.g., Nevada, Oregon, Vermont) that have all raised their state minimum wages to levels that surpass 46 percent of their median full-time wage. Finally, evidence from the United Kingdom suggests that raising the minimum wage close to the median full-time wage is not associated with sizable effects on employment (Manning 2012).

This addresses ONLY whether 50% is too high, and NOT whether it could be higher.

[AiliailiA]

Or states that need a higher wage can pass state laws.

True, but what about states who might need a lower minimum wage than the national wage? Who have a lower equilibirium wage than the national equilibirium wage?

Again say the national equilibirium wage is 12. In rural Texas it is 9. In San Fran it is 15.

If you set it at 12 it is too high for rural Texas but to low for SF.

There is no doubt the minimum wage should be set to 50% the median wage.
http://www.hamiltonproject.org/assets/l ... y_dube.pdf

But you should exempt localities from the federal minimum wage if their minimum wage is set to the equilibirium wage, even if below the federal equilibirium wage. One size does not fit all.

Dube's study finds that 50% of median full-time wage would be higher in every individual state than the current federal minimum wage (at least $9 in every state).

In other words, we could just increase the federal minimum wage to $9 right now and it wouldn't be too high in any state. It would still be below what you claim is the ideal rate. It wouldn't be perfect but it would be closer to your ideal, so right now you should say whether you support that. $9 nationally and immediately, yes or no?

[Senkaku]

No, she's not.

It's been a line Democratic politicians have used for the better part of two decades.

Sanders is not the first progressive.

In this race, it's his line.

And what race would that be? Seeing as Hillary Rodham Clinton is the presumptive Democratic nominee and has been endorsed by Bernie Sanders?

[The United Territories of Providence]

So what day does Trump get pissed and fire Pence from the ticket?

How about October 5th?

I don't think he can, after the convention has voted on the ticket.

So ... three days from now?

Nope. McGovern asked Eagleton to leave the ticket after the 72 Convention. In theory, Trump could kick him off if he does poorly in the VP debate.

[AiliailiA]

I don't think he can, after the convention has voted on the ticket.

So ... three days from now?

Nope. McGovern asked Eagleton to leave the ticket after the 72 Convention. In theory, Trump could kick him off if he does poorly in the VP debate.

Trump could ask Pence to stand down, but he couldn't "kick him off" any more than McGovern could have. Only the party can do that: in the case of Eagleton's replacement Shriver it was the DNC which formally picked him, though it was also possible to call another convention.

Seeing how badly that all went for McGovern and Dems in general, no-one would think it's a good idea. But eh, Trump, who knows?

[Guy]

I may be wrong, but I'm fairly certain there's no realistic way to disendorse a VP candidate. Maybe if the RNC can change its own rules to override the Convention vote.

The VP Debate would probably be well past the final ballot filing deadline in most states anyway.

Of course, the ballot technically means shit all in terms of electing the Vice President. What matters is how the electors vote, and how those votes are counted in Congress (faithless elector provisions are probably ineffective in changing the result, only effective so to punish electors, iirc). So electors could probably follow a party directive and vote for someone else, though I very much doubt that would be seen too well by the public.

[New Jerzylvania]

This parody of The Beatles' I am the Walrus has been reworked to reflect the Trump selection of Mike Pence. Keep in mind the english word "trumpence" is defined as a return on investment of a con, bribe, theft or fraud.

I am the Trumpence ~ (apologies to The Beatles)

I am me and you hate me the GOP
And we are not together
See how it's done like fake holes in one
See how they lie
Denying

Sitting on a Jeff Flake
Waiting for McCain to come
Nomination T-shirt, stupid bloody Christie
Pence you've been a naughty boy
You let your polls go down

I am the pagan
They are the pagans
I am the trumpence
Goo go git Jeb

In the city policeman sitting
Cleveland lots of policemen in a row
CBS eye like Romney's the guy
See who they'll run
They're lying
Denying, denying, denying

Yellow chicken bastards
Talking bout me vilified
Grabbing all the long knives
Demographic Priebus
Trump, you've been a whiny bitch
You've let the big bucks down

I am the pagan
They are the pagans
I am George Wallace
Goo go git Jeb

Thinking of the Nixon pardon
Wishing for Reagan
If Reagan don't come you get a man
commanding a distinguished name

I am the pagan
("How do you win, sir")
He is the pagan
("The man maintains a fortune")
I hate the congress
Goo goo git Jeb Goo Goo Go git Jeb

Party stalwarts, smoke room jokers
Don't you think the voters laugh at you
(Ho ho ho hee hee hee hah hah hah)
See them smile like pigs in a sty
See Trump shanghaied
Decrying

A Political graveyard
Tearing down the old Trump tower
Military doctrines sorry Obama
Man, you should have seen them kicking
Hillary Clinton

I am the Pagan
He is the pagan
I lose the congress
Goo go git Jeb
Goo goo go git Jeb
Goo go git Jeb
Goo goo go git jeb
Goo go
Jeba Jeba Jeb a
Jeba Jeba Jeb a
Jeba Jeba Jeb a
Jeba Jeb a...

Despot despot...
Everybody despot
Despot despot...
Everybody despot

Despot despot...
Everybody despot
Despot despot...
Everybody despot

Despot despot
Everybody despot...

(Oh thy tired, servicable villain
Sent down b'father, f#ck you)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IpP3bc4AU0

[Koninkrijk Zeeland]

Will the congress also be chosen with the elections?

[Zurkerx]

Will the congress also be chosen with the elections?

Yes, the entire House of Representatives and I believe 34 senate seats are up for re-election.

[New Jerzylvania]

Will the congress also be chosen with the elections?

The House of Representatives will, but only about a third of the Senate is up for elections. This is bc they are elected for 6 year terms which originated in the differing years of each particular state's admission to the union.

[Koninkrijk Zeeland]

Will the congress also be chosen with the elections?

The House of Representatives will, but only about a third of the Senate is up for elections. This is bc they are elected for 6 year terms which originated in the differing years of each particular state's admission to the union.

The rest of the senate will be chosen in 2018/2019?

[Gauthier]

Oh this is rich. Trump just now brayed in his press conference that he's going to abolish the Johnson Amendment and give more political and governmental influence to Evangelicals. Overturn Obergefell v. Hodges, anyone?

[Marylandonia]

The House of Representatives will, but only about a third of the Senate is up for elections. This is bc they are elected for 6 year terms which originated in the differing years of each particular state's admission to the union.

The rest of the senate will be chosen in 2018/2019?

Each and every year some states have senators that come up for re-election. The Senate never comes up all together at once ever but the House does every 2 years. Our state governors vary by states under the same principle but on 4 year terms. Once again, it depends on what year the state was admitted into the union.

[Guy]

The House of Representatives will, but only about a third of the Senate is up for elections. This is bc they are elected for 6 year terms which originated in the differing years of each particular state's admission to the union.

The rest of the senate will be chosen in 2018/2019?

(Roughly) a third of the Senate every two years. Those elected this year won't come up for re-election until 2022, and were elected in 2010.

And the entire House every two years.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Oh this is rich. Trump just now brayed in his press conference that he's going to abolish the Johnson Amendment and give more political and governmental influence to Evangelicals. Overturn Obergefell v. Hodges, anyone?

It's not surprising at this point.

Nothing he does is surprising to me anymore.

[Arkinesia]

Donald Trump auctioned off the vp spot to the highest bidder. The Koch brothers. Newt and Christie are moody today.

The Kochs aren't supporting Trump.

[Socialist Nordia]

Oh this is rich. Trump just now brayed in his press conference that he's going to abolish the Johnson Amendment and give more political and governmental influence to Evangelicals. Overturn Obergefell v. Hodges, anyone?

Oh god no. Looks like we're headed towards a theocracy.

[Galloism]

Oh this is rich. Trump just now brayed in his press conference that he's going to abolish the Johnson Amendment and give more political and governmental influence to Evangelicals. Overturn Obergefell v. Hodges, anyone?

As a person very sympathetic to religion in general, and a strong proponent of freedom thereof, this is a really really really bad idea.

[Idzequitch]

Maybe it's just me, but Pence seems pretty solidly in the "Establishment" camp after Trump supporters have spent the past several months railing against fhe establishment.

[Pope Trump]

Oh this is rich. Trump just now brayed in his press conference that he's going to abolish the Johnson Amendment and give more political and governmental influence to Evangelicals. Overturn Obergefell v. Hodges, anyone?

Oh god no. Looks like we're headed towards a theocracy.

why on heaven's earth would you think that?

[Farnhamia]

Will the congress also be chosen with the elections?

The House of Representatives will, but only about a third of the Senate is up for elections. This is bc they are elected for 6 year terms which originated in the differing years of each particular state's admission to the union.

The staggered election of Senators is in the original Constitution, Section 3 of Article I. Nothing to do with when a State joined the Union.