US General Election Megathread: Trump vs Clinton

[Ashmoria]

Donald Trump blames media for casting twitter post as racist, just because he got the image from a Neo-Nazi message board.

Dishonest media is trying their absolute best to depict a star in a tweet as the Star of David rather than a Sheriff's Star, or plain star!

Trump forgot who controls the media.

is it wrong of me to have laughed at that?

[American MapleStory]

Will never vote for Clinton. Whoever can vote for someone who can't open her mouth without spewing lies has very weak morals imho. You wanna reward someone like that the presidency? This has to be one of the biggest joke elections yet. Personally, I like Trump. I wish he would keep his mouth closed sometimes but I guess he can't. What's wrong with eliminating anti business policies like NAFTA (which Clinton signed and Hillary supports), decreasing foreign involvement and closing the boarder so that we can get control of our country?

[Distantiality]

Will never vote for Clinton. Whoever can vote for someone who can't open her mouth without spewing lies has very weak morals imho. You wanna reward someone like that the presidency? This has to be one of the biggest joke elections yet. Personally, I like Trump. I wish he would keep his mouth closed sometimes but I guess he can't. What's wrong with eliminating anti business policies like NAFTA (which Clinton signed and Hillary supports), decreasing foreign involvement and closing the boarder so that we can get control of our country?

1) You doubt the morals of anybody who supports a dishonest candidate.
2) You support Donald Trump.
Conclusion) You doubt your own morals.

[Major-Tom]

Will never vote for Clinton. Whoever can vote for someone who can't open her mouth without spewing lies has very weak morals imho. You wanna reward someone like that the presidency? This has to be one of the biggest joke elections yet. Personally, I like Trump. I wish he would keep his mouth closed sometimes but I guess he can't. What's wrong with eliminating anti business policies like NAFTA (which Clinton signed and Hillary supports), decreasing foreign involvement and closing the boarder so that we can get control of our country?

No, Clinton is garbage, you're right, I agree, she's a crook and liar, a morally obtuse person.

Trump, too, however, is a liar. He has no ideals, he just wants to win win win, just like Hillary. He's a man who hasn't been held responsible for a consequential decision in his life, and Hillary is just a careerist who is desperate to suck on the power teet, she always has been, and she has no ideals either.

I've given up on American politics, I don't support third parties either. Vote in Ferris Bueller. I don't say this to be edgy, I say it because I'm fundamentally disappointed.

[Galloism]

Whoever can vote for someone who can't open her mouth without spewing lies has very weak morals imho.

...

Personally, I like Trump.

You trying to be deliberately ironic here?

[Major-Tom]

It's been said a number of times on this thread we are looking at an election cycle comparable to 1964. I, for one, found that to be very likely for sometime. However, I've come to see this cycle as more similar to 1988. In that year there was no incumbent, so we have that exact situation now. Usually that's sort of set up favors the party out of power. You had an incompetent candidate nominated by his party which had been out of executive power for eight years. In 1988, MA Governor Mike Dukakis found a way to fuck it up. Here in 2016, we have Donald Trump finding incredibly novel ways to self-destruct his candidacy, another fuck up.

In 1988, George Herbert Walker Bush was trailed into the election-year by the Iran-Contra investigations, in which he claimed he was "not in the loop" for the decision-making on the trading arms for hostages, Ollie North's actions etc. etc. etc.. Here in 2016, Hillary Clinton has been dogged by Benghazi and the resulting e-mail flap. Both of these candidates, Bush 41 and HRC, should be thought of as very beatable considering their circumstances. However, they are blessed with amazingly bad opponents. In 1964, LBJ was an incumbent president riding a tide of sympathy for the assassinated JFK. Nothing remotely resembles this in 2016. There is some resemblance between Barry Goldwater and the resistance that he found inside the GOP and Donald Trump's travails, no doubt. But there are vast differences between Donald Trump and Barry Goldwater in consistency and temperament, they really aren't much alike. BTW, Hillary Clinton is no LBJ either by any standard. Even in "crookedness," if that's your pleasure. LBJ was the proverbial crooked man who walked a crooked mile for god sake. Hillary is a piker compared to him, no matter what you think of her.

Interestingly enough, both elections ended up with the winners (LBJ & Bush 41) getting 40+ states in the electoral college. Right now I doubt Hillary Clinton can exactly pull that feat off. OTOH, if Donald Trump continues his present Dukakis-like course and Libertarian candidate Gary Johnson can siphon off enough votes in various states such as Utah, Georgia and Arizona, who knows? Also, it is notable that neither candidate that won in 1964 or 1988 was able to win another term four years later and the party out of power finally found a winning candidate. However, that 2020 outcome is still too far out there to actually project, but it is worth noting.

Holy shit, the 1988 comparison does sound pretty....well, accurate, to be quite honest with you. Goldwater was a decent man, he's nothing like Trump, even his personality and campaign style.

LBJ was a bigger crook than Nixon and Clinton, yes. Nixon, imho, is a bit underrated...

[American MapleStory]

Whoever can vote for someone who can't open her mouth without spewing lies has very weak morals imho.

...

Personally, I like Trump.

You trying to be deliberately ironic here?

Trump isn't the one flip flopping about EVERY issue. He didn't essentially hand over classified information to the Russians. Then there's the whole Bosnia lie, which personally I think would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that shes ahead in the polls.

And anyway, I like Trump because of other reasons, mostly his confidence and how it pertains to business, but I'd rather not go into it.

[Galloism]

You trying to be deliberately ironic here?

Trump isn't the one flip flopping about EVERY issue. He didn't essentially hand over classified information to the Russians. Then there's the whole Bosnia lie, which personally I think would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that shes ahead in the polls.

And anyway, I like Trump because of other reasons, mostly his confidence and how it pertains to business, but I'd rather not go into it.

Trump has the highest "pants on fire" rating in this election, and possibly all time since we started rating the truth of candidate claims.

[American MapleStory]

Trump isn't the one flip flopping about EVERY issue. He didn't essentially hand over classified information to the Russians. Then there's the whole Bosnia lie, which personally I think would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that shes ahead in the polls.

And anyway, I like Trump because of other reasons, mostly his confidence and how it pertains to business, but I'd rather not go into it.

Trump has the highest "pants on fire" rating in this election, and possibly all time since we started rating the truth of candidate claims.

I don't look at any of these ratings by who the hell knows who. Tell me. Exactly what lies are you talking about? Trump University. We don't know exactly what's happening with that because the case is still in civil court. Civil court. Hillary did something that should be tried in a federal criminal court. I don't understand, really.

[Distantiality]

You trying to be deliberately ironic here?

Trump isn't the one flip flopping about EVERY issue. He didn't essentially hand over classified information to the Russians. Then there's the whole Bosnia lie, which personally I think would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that shes ahead in the polls.

And anyway, I like Trump because of other reasons, mostly his confidence and how it pertains to business, but I'd rather not go into it.

Trump flip-flops all the time. He flipped on taxes. He flipped on his Muslim ban. He flipped on having armed civilians at the Orlando nightclub shooting. He flipped on...Hillary Clinton.

[American MapleStory]

Trump isn't the one flip flopping about EVERY issue. He didn't essentially hand over classified information to the Russians. Then there's the whole Bosnia lie, which personally I think would be funny if it wasn't for the fact that shes ahead in the polls.

And anyway, I like Trump because of other reasons, mostly his confidence and how it pertains to business, but I'd rather not go into it.

Trump flip-flops all the time. He flipped on taxes. He flipped on his Muslim ban. He flipped on having armed civilians at the Orlando nightclub shooting. He flipped on...Hillary Clinton.

Kay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI
I'm just gonna leave that there for anyone who hasn't already decided upon voting down the D column.
And as for the screaming of Muslims: nah I don't agree with that but he brings up alot of good point about destroying ISIS. Anyways, theres no way that would pass the congress and if it did, the courts would slash that down immediately. Checks and balances.

[Distantiality]

Trump flip-flops all the time. He flipped on taxes. He flipped on his Muslim ban. He flipped on having armed civilians at the Orlando nightclub shooting. He flipped on...Hillary Clinton.

Kay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI
I'm just gonna leave that there for anyone who hasn't already decided upon voting down the D column.
And as for the screaming of Muslims: nah I don't agree with that but he brings up alot of good point about destroying ISIS. Anyways, theres no way that would pass the congress and if it did, the courts would slash that down immediately. Checks and balances.

First, you didn't actually address any of the examples of Trump flip-flopping.

Secondly, that video doesn't show Clinton lying. It shows her changing positions. Two different concepts.

And thirdly, Trump has no good points about ISIS. Calling on us to bomb the shit out of them isn't a strategy.

[Galloism]

Trump has the highest "pants on fire" rating in this election, and possibly all time since we started rating the truth of candidate claims.

I don't look at any of these ratings by who the hell knows who. Tell me. Exactly what lies are you talking about? Trump University. We don't know exactly what's happening with that because the case is still in civil court. Civil court. Hillary did something that should be tried in a federal criminal court. I don't understand, really.

Lied about hillary's religion, lied about hillary and TPP, lied about Obama supporting Al Qaeda (no, seriously, he said that), lied about the crime rate, lied about hillary wanting all criminals released, lied about refugees, and much much more.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities ... ants-fire/

[American MapleStory]

Kay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI
I'm just gonna leave that there for anyone who hasn't already decided upon voting down the D column.
And as for the screaming of Muslims: nah I don't agree with that but he brings up alot of good point about destroying ISIS. Anyways, theres no way that would pass the congress and if it did, the courts would slash that down immediately. Checks and balances.

First, you didn't actually address any of the examples of Trump flip-flopping.

Secondly, that video doesn't show Clinton lying. It shows her changing positions. Two different concepts.

And thirdly, Trump has no good points about ISIS. Calling on us to bomb the shit out of them isn't a strategy.

Clearly you didn't watch the entire video, but ok. I can say the same thing about Trump. Oh, he's just changing his positions. With Trump actually, a lot of his "changing" is due to him developing potential policy, since of course, as opposed to the Hillary Dynasty he's not a career politician.

So with ISIS. We're just gonna sit and maybe they'll leave us alone like we're doing under Obama? Hmm... that's working well.

[Thermodolia]

Trump flip-flops all the time. He flipped on taxes. He flipped on his Muslim ban. He flipped on having armed civilians at the Orlando nightclub shooting. He flipped on...Hillary Clinton.

Kay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI
I'm just gonna leave that there for anyone who hasn't already decided upon voting down the D column.
And as for the screaming of Muslims: nah I don't agree with that but he brings up alot of good point about destroying ISIS. Anyways, theres no way that would pass the congress and if it did, the courts would slash that down immediately. Checks and balances.

Oh joy it's the Holy YouTube source that can definitely never be wrong.

[Galloism]

First, you didn't actually address any of the examples of Trump flip-flopping.

Secondly, that video doesn't show Clinton lying. It shows her changing positions. Two different concepts.

And thirdly, Trump has no good points about ISIS. Calling on us to bomb the shit out of them isn't a strategy.

Clearly you didn't watch the entire video, but ok. I can say the same thing about Trump. Oh, he's just changing his positions. With Trump actually, a lot of his "changing" is due to him developing potential policy, since of course, as opposed to the Hillary Dynasty he's not a career politician.

So with ISIS. We're just gonna sit and maybe they'll leave us alone like we're doing under Obama? Hmm... that's working well.

Obama is bombing ISIS so hard we're literally running low on bombs.

[The United Territories of Providence]

Drumpf flip-flops all the time. He flipped on taxes. He flipped on his Muslim ban. He flipped on having armed civilians at the Orlando nightclub shooting. He flipped on...Hillary Clinton.

Kay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI
I'm just gonna leave that there for anyone who hasn't already decided upon voting down the D column.
And as for the screaming of Muslims: nah I don't agree with that but he brings up alot of good point about destroying ISIS. Anyways, theres no way that would pass the congress and if it did, the courts would slash that down immediately. Checks and balances.

What good point could you possibly be referring to? Furthermore, the idea that you know a candidate is making horrible proposals but in your mind it's okay because it would never pass....that is ridiculous. Because one, if he has a Republican congress not only does it pass, but he also has a conservative supreme court majority...with at least 1 trump judge...guess what...the Screening stays.

[Distantiality]

Clearly you didn't watch the entire video, but ok.

I've watched that video multiple times because I exist on the internet and it seems to be a favorite of the politically naive online.

I can say the same thing about Trump. Oh, he's just changing his positions. With Trump actually, a lot of his "changing" is due to him developing potential policy, since of course, as opposed to the Hillary Dynasty he's not a career politician.

All I want for you is to admit Trump has changed his positions as well, undermining one of your reasons for backing him. Since you just did, I think I've made my point.

And by the way, Hillary isn't a career politician.

So with ISIS. We're just gonna sit and maybe they'll leave us alone like we're doing under Obama? Hmm... that's working well.

Yes--they were definitely let alone in Ramadi and Fallujah, weren't they?

[Myrensis]

Kay. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dY77j6uBHI
I'm just gonna leave that there for anyone who hasn't already decided upon voting down the D column.
And as for the screaming of Muslims: nah I don't agree with that but he brings up alot of good point about destroying ISIS. Anyways, theres no way that would pass the congress and if it did, the courts would slash that down immediately. Checks and balances.

What good point could you possibly be referring to? Furthermore, the idea that you know a candidate is making horrible proposals but in your mind it's okay because it would never pass....that is ridiculous. Because one, if he has a Republican congress not only does it pass, but he also has a conservative supreme court majority...with at least 1 trump judge...guess what...the Screening stays.

It's one of the more bizarre aspects of Trumps base. His supporters all cheerfully acknowledge that he's a liar and has terrible policies, it's just each group has a different idea about which parts he's lying about and which policies are terrible. Each is just sure that when he says the things they like it's the absolute truth because he knows they are the smart voters with the serious issues, while when he says the things they don't like that's just empty pandering to those other, dumb voters with dumb issues that will never happen.

[Trodarian Benxboro Republic]

What good point could you possibly be referring to? Furthermore, the idea that you know a candidate is making horrible proposals but in your mind it's okay because it would never pass....that is ridiculous. Because one, if he has a Republican congress not only does it pass, but he also has a conservative supreme court majority...with at least 1 trump judge...guess what...the Screening stays.

It's one of the more bizarre aspects of Trumps base. His supporters all cheerfully acknowledge that he's a liar and has terrible policies, it's just each group has a different idea about which parts he's lying about and which policies are terrible. Each is just sure that when he says the things they like it's the absolute truth because he knows they are the smart voters with the serious issues, while when he says the things they don't like that's just empty pandering to those other, dumb voters with dumb issues that will never happen.

I agree.

[Corrian]

Will never vote for Clinton. Whoever can vote for someone who can't open her mouth without spewing lies has very weak morals imho. You wanna reward someone like that the presidency? This has to be one of the biggest joke elections yet. Personally, I like Trump. I wish he would keep his mouth closed sometimes but I guess he can't. What's wrong with eliminating anti business policies like NAFTA (which Clinton signed and Hillary supports), decreasing foreign involvement and closing the boarder so that we can get control of our country?

I always love the irony of Trump supporters calling Clinton a liar and dishonest.

[Great Feng]

It's Independence day!

Nobody cares.

[Bank of America]

I don't look at any of these ratings by who the hell knows who. Tell me. Exactly what lies are you talking about? Trump University. We don't know exactly what's happening with that because the case is still in civil court. Civil court. Hillary did something that should be tried in a federal criminal court. I don't understand, really.

Lied about hillary's religion, lied about hillary and TPP, lied about Obama supporting Al Qaeda (no, seriously, he said that), lied about the crime rate, lied about hillary wanting all criminals released, lied about refugees, and much much more.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities ... ants-fire/

Right, we know he's a liar. Ever deal with a car salesman? Same thing. This nation was built on lying, bub. Get over it.

[Kelinfort]

Lied about hillary's religion, lied about hillary and TPP, lied about Obama supporting Al Qaeda (no, seriously, he said that), lied about the crime rate, lied about hillary wanting all criminals released, lied about refugees, and much much more.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities ... ants-fire/

Right, we know he's a liar. Ever deal with a car salesman? Same thing. This nation was built on lying, bub. Get over it.

I don't want the dad from Matilda to be our President.

[Great Feng]

Lied about hillary's religion, lied about hillary and TPP, lied about Obama supporting Al Qaeda (no, seriously, he said that), lied about the crime rate, lied about hillary wanting all criminals released, lied about refugees, and much much more.

http://www.politifact.com/personalities ... ants-fire/

Right, we know he's a liar. Ever deal with a car salesman? Same thing. This nation was built on lying, bub. Get over it.

Yet he champions himself on being the honest guy to get people to vote for him and it is a key part of why many want him as President.