Why do you call yourself an anti-feminist?

[HUElavia]

I don't like the way TW Feminists look at Men and complaining that they're being "oppressed" the one moment you speak to them. Jesus Christ, they're cancer.

[Yupun]

I am a feminist but I do not think men should have their pee pee cut off or that they should be caged for just looking at us, However I do feel media needs better female protagonists and stuff... (the west is doing better than most when it comes to media but I feel the women being weak role as predictable and boring...)

Also how can anybody be anti-feminist in this era? I mean everybody should have the right to vote and drive cars right?

[Ostroeuropa]

I am a feminist but I do not think men should have their pee pee cut off or that they should be caged for just looking at us, However I do feel media needs better female protagonists and stuff... (the west is doing better than most when it comes to media but I feel the women being weak role as predictable and boring...)

Also how can anybody be anti-feminist in this era? I mean everybody should have the right to vote and drive cars right?

"How can you be anti-imperialism, don't you like trains?"

I don't deny feminism does nice things for it's in group. I'm sure Jim Crow did good things for white people too. The question is whether it's victimizing other people.

[Wallenburg]

1/5 women in surveys on colleges which ask for respondents to a survey on sexual assault answer yes to questions which range from;
Have you ever been kissed without your permission
to
Have you ever been penetrated without your permission?

So being forced to kiss someone is not sexual assault? Is being groped not sexual assault either? I guess catcalls and stalking aren't sexual harassment either.

This is akin to me up and deciding that 100% of males are MURDERED!!!!! Because they've all experienced physical violence at some time in their lives.

No it isn't. Don't pull that hyperbolic bullshit.

That the 1/5 are raped myth is pushed so hard and so often by feminist institutions should clue you in to how the movement actually works.

I don't recall anyone claiming 20% of female college students were raped. Sexually assaulted, yes, because that's what the studies indicate. But not raped.

You should note that the "Kissed without your permission" question makes the entire survey a farce. It's too ambiguous a question and easily covers benign miscommunication in addition to sexual assault,

It says something that you think, while being surveyed for a study regarding college sexual assault, women are unable to distinguish between a well-meaning yet undesired kiss, and one consciously forced upon them.

which you could argue is entirely intentional, because the people who run feminism are like chessmistress as she keeps pointing out to everyone.

Feminism is not a corporation, Ostro. Nobody "runs" it any more than someone "runs" atheism or "runs" environmentalism. Furthermore, you have yet to demonstrate that the people conducting studies of college sexual assault are taking orders from radical feminists.

Half of the point is to demonize and vilify any and all relations between men and women. You know how Chess constantly cites laws and professors and stuff that agree with her?
How come you can't seem to do that?

Apparently you haven't been reading the thread.

It's because she's right about what feminism actually is and you're just buying the excuses pushed by their PR department.

You want her to be right about feminism, because it means that you don't have to recognize that your seething hatred for feminists, good and bad, is built upon a foundation of bullshit.

[Wallenburg]

I am a feminist but I do not think men should have their pee pee cut off or that they should be caged for just looking at us, However I do feel media needs better female protagonists and stuff... (the west is doing better than most when it comes to media but I feel the women being weak role as predictable and boring...)

Also how can anybody be anti-feminist in this era? I mean everybody should have the right to vote and drive cars right?

"How can you be anti-imperialism, don't you like trains?"

I don't deny feminism does nice things for it's in group. I'm sure Jim Crow did good things for white people too. The question is whether it's victimizing other people.

Yes, because a push for gender equality is just like segregation in the post-Reconstruction South.

Do you even hear yourself talking?

[Ostroeuropa]

You've been defending 1/5 are raped as a stat for two pages now.

viewtopic.php?p=28731741#p28731741

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=376849&p=28733173#p28733173

This is the discussion we're having. You never claimed to only be defending sexual assault, and yes, it's often claimed as "1/5 are raped."

It says something that you think, while being surveyed for a study regarding college sexual assault, women are unable to distinguish between a well-meaning yet undesired kiss, and one consciously forced upon them.

Whether they can tell the difference or not is not relevant, the question is not phrased to discount it, and so the results are tainted.

[Ostroeuropa]

"How can you be anti-imperialism, don't you like trains?"

I don't deny feminism does nice things for it's in group. I'm sure Jim Crow did good things for white people too. The question is whether it's victimizing other people.

Yes, because a push for gender equality is just like segregation in the post-Reconstruction South.

Do you even hear yourself talking?

You're talking about a movement that literally pushes for segregation. And you're presupposing it's a push for gender equality, rather than a supremacy movement.

"What's wrong with france owning all of french land? Why do you hate french people?"
"No, because this isn't just that, it's the additional claim that france owns half of europe."
"ITS JUST THE CLAIM FOR FRENCH LAND!!!!"

No. Feminism isn't about gender equality. It's about misframing gender equality to be an entirely womens issue. We see this consistently from their literature, academia, and institutions. That means it isn't a "Push for gender equality." it's a push for supremacy, using equality as a justification, and propoganda techniques and misinformation to get people on board with the idea. There are feminist individuals who differ, but the movements effects on reality are clear.

[The Enclave Government]

http://www.sheknows.com/living/articles ... ting-women

that sums up the hypocrisy of the movement

they want all the BONUSES but none of the RESPONSIBILITIES

[Yupun]

Yes, because a push for gender equality is just like segregation in the post-Reconstruction South.

Do you even hear yourself talking?

You're talking about a movement that literally pushes for segregation. And you're presupposing it's a push for gender equality, rather than a supremacy movement.

"What's wrong with france owning all of french land? Why do you hate french people?"
"No, because this isn't just that, it's the additional claim that france owns half of europe."
"ITS JUST THE CLAIM FOR FRENCH LAND!!!!"

No. Feminism isn't about gender equality. It's about misframing gender equality to be an entirely womens issue. We see this consistently from their literature, academia, and institutions. That means it isn't a "Push for gender equality." it's a push for supremacy, using equality as a justification, and propoganda techniques and misinformation to get people on board with the idea. There are feminist individuals who differ, but the movements effects on reality are clear.

I just want equality for example when a TV show has 7 heroes 6 men and 1 female why the **** does the only female her have to die?

[Ostroeuropa]

You're talking about a movement that literally pushes for segregation. And you're presupposing it's a push for gender equality, rather than a supremacy movement.

"What's wrong with france owning all of french land? Why do you hate french people?"
"No, because this isn't just that, it's the additional claim that france owns half of europe."
"ITS JUST THE CLAIM FOR FRENCH LAND!!!!"

No. Feminism isn't about gender equality. It's about misframing gender equality to be an entirely womens issue. We see this consistently from their literature, academia, and institutions. That means it isn't a "Push for gender equality." it's a push for supremacy, using equality as a justification, and propoganda techniques and misinformation to get people on board with the idea. There are feminist individuals who differ, but the movements effects on reality are clear.

I just want equality for example when a TV show has 7 heroes 6 men and 1 female why the **** does the only female her have to die?

The overwhelming majority of deaths on tv are male. Like, it isn't even close.

[Wallenburg]

You've been defending 1/5 are raped as a stat for two pages now.

No, I haven't. Try again.

http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic.php?p=28731741#p28731741

viewtopic.php?f=20&t=376849&p=28733173#p28733173

Cool. Two posts I didn't write. What are you getting at?

This is the discussion we're having.

You don't get to dictate discussion. If it were off topic, go ahead, say that. But you don't get to decide that I am talking about rape instead of sexual assault.

You never claimed to only be defending sexual assault,

Why the fuck would I defend sexual assault?

and yes, it's often claimed as "1/5 are raped."

Maybe by Chess and Co.

It says something that you think, while being surveyed for a study regarding college sexual assault, women are unable to distinguish between a well-meaning yet undesired kiss, and one consciously forced upon them.

Whether they can tell the difference or not is not relevant, the question is not phrased to discount it, and so the results are tainted.

That's your opinion. I've said all I have to say on that, so I'm not really sure I can do anything more to help you here.

[The Enclave Government]

You're talking about a movement that literally pushes for segregation. And you're presupposing it's a push for gender equality, rather than a supremacy movement.

"What's wrong with france owning all of french land? Why do you hate french people?"
"No, because this isn't just that, it's the additional claim that france owns half of europe."
"ITS JUST THE CLAIM FOR FRENCH LAND!!!!"

No. Feminism isn't about gender equality. It's about misframing gender equality to be an entirely womens issue. We see this consistently from their literature, academia, and institutions. That means it isn't a "Push for gender equality." it's a push for supremacy, using equality as a justification, and propoganda techniques and misinformation to get people on board with the idea. There are feminist individuals who differ, but the movements effects on reality are clear.

I just want equality for example when a TV show has 7 heroes 6 men and 1 female why the **** does the only female her have to die?

That's not gender inequality as much as it's thematic storytelling.

The all important male 18-49 demographic responds much more viscerally to the death of a female rather then the male because that's just how humans are programmed - you want to make the program compelling.

[Ostroeuropa]

I just want equality for example when a TV show has 7 heroes 6 men and 1 female why the **** does the only female her have to die?

That's not gender inequality as much as it's thematic storytelling.

The all important male 18-49 demographic responds much more viscerally to the death of a female rather then the male because that's just how humans are programmed - you want to make the program compelling.

I disagree with a lot of what you said here.
Firstly, it's factually inaccurate that the 18-49 male demographic is the most important. Women control most household income and expenditures, and watch more television than men, and companies are aware of this.

Secondly, it isn't just men who don't give a fuck about men, it's women, which somewhat undermines your "It's just how humans are programmed" thing.
It's a result of social conditioning.

[Wallenburg]

Yes, because a push for gender equality is just like segregation in the post-Reconstruction South.

Do you even hear yourself talking?

You're talking about a movement that literally pushes for segregation. And you're presupposing it's a push for gender equality, rather than a supremacy movement.

I believe I asked you to stop spewing bullshit earlier. Just in case I didn't, I'll say it now. Stop spewing bullshit, please? Thank you.

"What's wrong with france owning all of french land? Why do you hate french people?"
"No, because this isn't just that, it's the additional claim that france owns half of europe."
"ITS JUST THE CLAIM FOR FRENCH LAND!!!!"

Um, what the fuck is this about?

No. Feminism isn't about gender equality. It's about misframing gender equality to be an entirely womens issue. We see this consistently from their literature, academia, and institutions. That means it isn't a "Push for gender equality." it's a push for supremacy, using equality as a justification, and propoganda techniques and misinformation to get people on board with the idea. There are feminist individuals who differ, but the movements effects on reality are clear.

There are a lot of individuals who differ, to the extent that your idea of what the standard feminist banner is, is more detached from reality than Donald Trump's understanding of the Constitution.

[The Enclave Government]

That's not gender inequality as much as it's thematic storytelling.

The all important male 18-49 demographic responds much more viscerally to the death of a female rather then the male because that's just how humans are programmed - you want to make the program compelling.

I disagree with a lot of what you said here.
Firstly, it's factually inaccurate that the 18-49 male demographic is the most important. Women control most household income and expenditures, and watch more television than men, and companies are aware of this.

Secondly, it isn't just men who don't give a fuck about men, it's women, which somewhat undermines your "It's just how humans are programmed" thing.
It's a result of social conditioning.

Depending on the show.

Might be, but you can't refute the charge that viscerally, a woman's death effects the viewers more then a man's death.

[Ostroeuropa]

I disagree with a lot of what you said here.
Firstly, it's factually inaccurate that the 18-49 male demographic is the most important. Women control most household income and expenditures, and watch more television than men, and companies are aware of this.

Secondly, it isn't just men who don't give a fuck about men, it's women, which somewhat undermines your "It's just how humans are programmed" thing.
It's a result of social conditioning.

Depending on the show.

Might be, but you can't refute the charge that viscerally, a woman's death effects the viewers more then a man's death.

I agree that people care more about a woman dying than a man, yes.

[Yupun]

I just want equality for example when a TV show has 7 heroes 6 men and 1 female why the **** does the only female her have to die?

The overwhelming majority of deaths on tv are male. Like, it isn't even close.

If they are gonna kill 100% of the female protagonists I demand the same for the male protagonists! And the female protagonist was considered a joke from start to finish. The fans of the show used the joke "the character who can not fight anyone who can fight back" while the male characters was all bad-ass and never made fun off!

[Ostroeuropa]

The overwhelming majority of deaths on tv are male. Like, it isn't even close.

If they are gonna kill 100% of the female protagonists I demand the same for the male protagonists! And the female protagonist was considered a joke from start to finish. The fans of the show used the joke "the character who can not fight anyone who can fight back" while the male characters was all bad-ass and never made fun off!

Which show is it?

[Alvalero]

The problem I have with 3rd wave femenism, and the regressive left(BLM, SJW's, etc) in general, is this idea of victimhood and oppression by the the imaginery privillaged white male patriarchy. Mansplaining, manspreading, obesity is not a health issue, video games are sexist, etc. You know, made up words and bullshit that doesn't hold water in reality.
I've yet to see one of these 3rd wave femenists name a right men have that women do not in the western world. I've not see one defend western women who have been sexually harrased by some of the immigrants pouring into Europe. I've yet to see one denounce the actual patriarchies of the middle east. These people think that campus rape is comparable to that of the Congo and that women still earn less than men for the same work done due to sexism, even though its down to hours worked, education and most importantly the industry they go into. There are also laws which prevent this. If a business could get away with paying women less than men then there would be a lot less men working.
This idea of a quota of having men and women in equal measure or even the notion of diversity on company boards(or any job for that matter) is also completely stupid. A business should hire the most qualified person for the job and if that means having all positions filled by men or women or having a hugh majority of one gender/race/sexual orientation/etc then so be it. Equality is having the equal opportunity to succeed and fail.
One other point I've noticed about the regressives is the issue of diversity. Unity can achieve success, however here is a radical thought regressives cant fathom, diversity does not equate to unity.

[Wallenburg]

I disagree with a lot of what you said here.
Firstly, it's factually inaccurate that the 18-49 male demographic is the most important. Women control most household income and expenditures, and watch more television than men, and companies are aware of this.

Secondly, it isn't just men who don't give a fuck about men, it's women, which somewhat undermines your "It's just how humans are programmed" thing.
It's a result of social conditioning.

Depending on the show.

Might be, but you can't refute the charge that viscerally, a woman's death effects the viewers more then a man's death.

Just as you said, it depends on the show.

For instance, I was far more shaken by Hershel's death than Lori's in The Walking Dead. I think what you are trying to get at is that television writers tend to play off of stereotypical tropes. It does cut both ways though. Women are portrayed as weak and in need of help, but men also suffer from an expectation that they are strong and stone-faced, and are ridiculed if they demonstrate vulnerability.

Of course, saying that just makes me a misandrist gynocentric lunatic.

[Yupun]

If they are gonna kill 100% of the female protagonists I demand the same for the male protagonists! And the female protagonist was considered a joke from start to finish. The fans of the show used the joke "the character who can not fight anyone who can fight back" while the male characters was all bad-ass and never made fun off!

Which show is it?

It does not matter, what does matter is that this nation the show was from also thinks naming the easy mode in games "girl mode" as still a okay thing to do...

[The Enclave Government]

Depending on the show.

Might be, but you can't refute the charge that viscerally, a woman's death effects the viewers more then a man's death.

Just as you said, it depends on the show.

For instance, I was far more shaken by Hershel's death than Lori's in The Walking Dead. I think what you are trying to get at is that television writers tend to play off of stereotypical tropes. It does cut both ways though. Women are portrayed as weak and in need of help, but men also suffer from an expectation that they are strong and stone-faced, and are ridiculed if they demonstrate vulnerability.

Of course, saying that just makes me a misandrist gynocentric lunatic.

That's my main problem with feminism - it's not positive equality. It's negative equality. Rather then, for instance, trying to change the fundamental viewing of women, some feminists (Not by any way the majority, but very loud nonetheless) try and bring down men. Thinking in any remotely sexist way gets you vitrolicaly attacked.

[Wallenburg]

Just as you said, it depends on the show.

For instance, I was far more shaken by Hershel's death than Lori's in The Walking Dead. I think what you are trying to get at is that television writers tend to play off of stereotypical tropes. It does cut both ways though. Women are portrayed as weak and in need of help, but men also suffer from an expectation that they are strong and stone-faced, and are ridiculed if they demonstrate vulnerability.

Of course, saying that just makes me a misandrist gynocentric lunatic.

That's my main problem with feminism - it's not positive equality. It's negative equality. Rather then, for instance, trying to change the fundamental viewing of women, some feminists (Not by any way the majority, but very loud nonetheless) try and bring down men. Thinking in any remotely sexist way gets you vitrolicaly attacked.

If you recognize that a majority of feminists do not think that way, why are you claiming feminism as a movement does? We may as well call the Democratic Party racist against black people because it has a handful of racists in it.

[Yupun]

Depending on the show.

Might be, but you can't refute the charge that viscerally, a woman's death effects the viewers more then a man's death.

Just as you said, it depends on the show.

For instance, I was far more shaken by Hershel's death than Lori's in The Walking Dead. I think what you are trying to get at is that television writers tend to play off of stereotypical tropes. It does cut both ways though. Women are portrayed as weak and in need of help, but men also suffer from an expectation that they are strong and stone-faced, and are ridiculed if they demonstrate vulnerability.

Of course, saying that just makes me a misandrist gynocentric lunatic.

Well in the mentioned show the character was a bitch and her death was sorta cheered on by the fans of the show so that argument is not valid for this show...

[Ostroeuropa]

Just as you said, it depends on the show.

For instance, I was far more shaken by Hershel's death than Lori's in The Walking Dead. I think what you are trying to get at is that television writers tend to play off of stereotypical tropes. It does cut both ways though. Women are portrayed as weak and in need of help, but men also suffer from an expectation that they are strong and stone-faced, and are ridiculed if they demonstrate vulnerability.

Of course, saying that just makes me a misandrist gynocentric lunatic.

That's my main problem with feminism - it's not positive equality. It's negative equality. Rather then, for instance, trying to change the fundamental viewing of women, some feminists (Not by any way the majority, but very loud nonetheless) try and bring down men. Thinking in any remotely sexist way gets you vitrolicaly attacked.

What source do you have that it's not a majority? Is there a poll somewhere?
It could be a majority. We don't know.

What we do know is they are the most powerful, the loudest, and the most prolific in the movement. That they control the institutions and have the biggest influence in the media and academia, both of which are useful tools with which to spread your ideology.
I'd say it's easily possible they are the majority.