NationStates

Wolfmanne2 wrote:

Questers wrote: This is literally the reason why:
1. Labour suffered a massive defeat
2. Brexit won

Irrelevant. It's my city, my future. The rest of the country sacrificed my city, so I do not care.

ahahaha you're going full LNP

Wolfmanne2 wrote:

Questers wrote: This is literally the reason why:
1. Labour suffered a massive defeat
2. Brexit won

Irrelevant. It's my city, my future. The rest of the country sacrificed my city, so I do not care.

The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour, we achieve more than we achieve alone.

Questers wrote:what i want to know is where lamadia is. this whole affair is really lacking in comedy

Unreasonably drunk in celebration.

I almost made an unreasonably offensive further comment.
Brexit has really, really soured me.

Souseiseki wrote:

Wolfmanne2 wrote:Irrelevant. It's my city, my future. The rest of the country sacrificed my city, so I do not care.

ahahaha you're going full LNP

I've already had a rant against Westminster, so yeah pretty much.

Questers wrote:

Wolfmanne2 wrote:Irrelevant. It's my city, my future. The rest of the country sacrificed my city, so I do not care.

The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour, we achieve more than we achieve alone.

Just don't.

Imperializt Russia wrote:

Questers wrote:what i want to know is where lamadia is. this whole affair is really lacking in comedy

Unreasonably drunk in celebration.

I almost made an unreasonably offensive further comment.
Brexit has really, really soured me.

She was a remainer. Seriously, where is she? I need her to tell Questers' that his lexiteering socialist attitude is dangerous.

Questers wrote:

Wolfmanne2 wrote:Irrelevant. It's my city, my future. The rest of the country sacrificed my city, so I do not care.

The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour, we achieve more than we achieve alone.

socialism in one city, says steelmanne

Imperializt Russia wrote:Brexit has really, really soured me.

seconded

Imperializt Russia wrote:

Questers wrote:what i want to know is where lamadia is. this whole affair is really lacking in comedy

Unreasonably drunk in celebration.

I almost made an unreasonably offensive further comment.
Brexit has really, really soured me.

Lamadia was a remainer lol

Souseiseki wrote:oh don't give me this bs. do you seriously think getting some prick to go "well the tories are actually pretty much right on everything except we want to go a little slower than them" is the saviour that will protect the victims of the shit they're about to cut?

While I obviously disagree with you on the idea that Labour MPs want to do everything the same as the Tories just a tad slower, even if it was true that is still better than letting the Tories win. Even accepting your view that they're very similar, I'd still take 90% of Tory policies over 100% of Tory policies. Corbyn guarantees the latter.

Wolfmanne2 wrote:

Souseiseki wrote:
ahahaha you're going full LNP

I've already had a rant against Westminster, so yeah pretty much.

Questers wrote:
The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour, we achieve more than we achieve alone.

Just don't.

do you really think that London should be the centre of UK policy objectives... this is a serious question. our country is constituted of 65 million people. it isn't just london.

Britanno 2 wrote:

Souseiseki wrote:oh don't give me this bs. do you seriously think getting some prick to go "well the tories are actually pretty much right on everything except we want to go a little slower than them" is the saviour that will protect the victims of the shit they're about to cut?

While I obviously disagree with you on the idea that Labour MPs want to do everything the same as the Tories just a tad slower, even if it was true that is still better than letting the Tories win. Even accepting your view that they're very similar, I'd still take 90% of Tory policies over 100% of Tory policies. Corbyn guarantees the latter.

but what if the opposition could do something like fight the government and make them u-turn on disgusting policies rather than tacitly approving of them

omg i feel like sous making these sarcy comments

do you remember when all the blairites voted for the Welfare Reform and Work Act lol

Britanno 2 wrote:

Souseiseki wrote:oh don't give me this bs. do you seriously think getting some prick to go "well the tories are actually pretty much right on everything except we want to go a little slower than them" is the saviour that will protect the victims of the shit they're about to cut?

While I obviously disagree with you on the idea that Labour MPs want to do everything the same as the Tories just a tad slower, even if it was true that is still better than letting the Tories win. Even accepting your view that they're very similar, I'd still take 90% of Tory policies over 100% of Tory policies. Corbyn guarantees the latter.

how is it? all that will happen is that the overton window will move further to the right and labour will, as it had in the past, put up zero real opposition. turns out "you're basically right guys" is hard to convincingly sell to the public. they didn't even bother trying to contest "the labour party singlehandedly caused a global recession!". you seem to think that a blairite wanker can actually win. you are mistaken.

what we need to do is provide a real-left wing alternative and actually combat the narrative and lies they're spouting not fucking agree with them

Wolfmanne2 wrote:

Arkolon wrote:Out of curiosity, from your sig, what makes you think the UK can stay in the European single market

The fact that 48% of the country voted Remain and that many Leave voters did not vote for a Brexit that'll destroy the British economy. There is no mandate for a 'hardcore Brexit'. Also, as a Londoner, I feel that, as my city overwhelmingly voted Remain, London's interests should be put at the forefront of any agreement and that includes access to the single market, which is essential for the financial sector.

It isn't in the EU's political interest, and the UK isn't an EFTA member. EEA membership is limited to EU and EFTA members, neither of which the UK belongs to once Art50 is triggered, so the UK would have to reapply. It isn't in Europe's political interest (it is in its economic interest, however) since it sets a precedent that triggering Art50 lets you revert to being a member of the EEA. Lastly I really do not believe that joining the single market fits the referendum's mandate at all - it would require applying EU laws and regulations while increasing the democratic deficit and still paying for membership; add onto that freedom of movement and freedom of labour, there's no way this at all fits what a majority of people voted for explicitly Leaving the European Union.

Questers wrote:

Wolfmanne2 wrote:I've already had a rant against Westminster, so yeah pretty much.


Just don't.

do you really think that London should be the centre of UK policy objectives... this is a serious question. our country is constituted of 65 million people. it isn't just london.

No, development of other regions is important. But I want London's interests to be represented; we were taken out of the EU by Little England. Whilst I respect the result, the scale of the Remain vote in London coupled with the slim nationwide margin means there is no mandate for a hardcore Brexit.

Questers wrote:[A Labour "All stars" cabinet with the big name blairites, corbyn and those in the middle would have:
1. PLP popularity
2. Party popularity
3. Public popularity

What on earth makes you think that? Nobody cares about who your shadow transport secretary or your shadow minister for equality is. The public focuses on one person and one person only: the leader. If the opposite was the case then last year you would have seen Ed Balls, Yvette Cooper, Andy Burnham etc. being attacked for being weak/incompetent/whatever. But no, you only saw Miliband being targeted because he was the leader. The leader, and maybe the shadow chancellor, are the only people that matter. If you have a leader that is seen as being anti-west and sympathetic with terrorists, then the make up of your shadow cabinet means fuck all.

Questers wrote:

Britanno 2 wrote:While I obviously disagree with you on the idea that Labour MPs want to do everything the same as the Tories just a tad slower, even if it was true that is still better than letting the Tories win. Even accepting your view that they're very similar, I'd still take 90% of Tory policies over 100% of Tory policies. Corbyn guarantees the latter.

but what if the opposition could do something like fight the government and make them u-turn on disgusting policies rather than tacitly approving of them

omg i feel like sous making these sarcy comments

as a posting career in the UK Poltics Thread becomes longer, the probability of literally becoming souseiseki approaches 1

Wolfmanne2 wrote:

Questers wrote:
The Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour, we achieve more than we achieve alone.

Just don't.

What?

Wolfmanne2 wrote:

Imperializt Russia wrote:Unreasonably drunk in celebration.

I almost made an unreasonably offensive further comment.
Brexit has really, really soured me.

She was a remainer. Seriously, where is she? I need her to tell Questers' that his lexiteering socialist attitude is dangerous.

Well, I guess I am simply a dick since I didn't bother to ascertain that before being flippant.

Souseiseki wrote:

Questers wrote:but what if the opposition could do something like fight the government and make them u-turn on disgusting policies rather than tacitly approving of them

omg i feel like sous making these sarcy comments

as a posting career in the UK Poltics Thread becomes longer, the probability of literally becoming souseiseki approaches 1

Fairly sure I now fall within the margin of error.

Souseiseki wrote:day 3 of poor george being missing. hope they find him soon.

How long before we start putting his face on milk cartons?

"Have you seen this chancellor?"

Wolfmanne2 wrote:

Questers wrote:do you really think that London should be the centre of UK policy objectives... this is a serious question. our country is constituted of 65 million people. it isn't just london.

No, development of other regions is important. But I want London's interests to be represented; we were taken out of the EU by Little England. Whilst I respect the result, the scale of the Remain vote in London coupled with the slim nationwide margin means there is no mandate for a hardcore Brexit.

how is that consistent with

Wolfmanne2 wrote:Irrelevant. It's my city, my future. The rest of the country sacrificed my city, so I do not care.

of course all areas of the country should be represented.

but the reason why little england -- not little, actually, it's much bigger than london, and don't foget wales -- voted out is because it has been repeatedly shafted by governments based in london who only act for london. the reason the scots voted to remain is probably because they've been shafted even more and they feel like the EU is the only thing stopping london from ravaging them

Britanno 2 wrote:Nobody cares about who your shadow transport secretary or your shadow minister for equality is. The public focuses on one person and one person only: the leader.

this is just wrong though isn't it. because it wasn't true under DC or Blair or Thatcher. they might not know minor figures like the shadow transport secretary or UNDER SECRETARY FOR THE REGIONS but they sure know who the chancellor and home secretary are -- especially if they're vocal which they should and could be.

Questers wrote:but what if the opposition could do something like fight the government and make them u-turn on disgusting policies rather than tacitly approving of them

omg i feel like sous making these sarcy comments

An opposition can only cause a government U-turn if it rallies the public behind them. Corbyn is incapable of that.

Think of the U-turns this government has done so far: tax credits, forced academies etc. How many of them have been because of Corbyn> Tax credits was down to Tory rebels. Academies was down to Tory rebels.

Questers wrote:

Wolfmanne2 wrote:London's interests should be put at the forefront of any agreement

This is literally the reason why:
1. Labour suffered a massive defeat
2. Brexit won

I thought you were at the stage of attempted understanding our views

Brexit didn't win bc of London, and nor did Labour lose because of it. London has generally not pushed for devolution, and certainly not compared to other region (EVEL anyone?). However, we are about to get fucked over for a result we didn't vote for. We largely feel European - and on a personal note, in light of this referendum I certainly feel more European than English (though I feel more British than either). I strongly endorse having our views being represented in talks, at a minimum, if not also having talks about greater devolution. A greater share than 7-9% of our tax revenue should be at our direct disposal, even though we generate 25% of the UK's 'economy taxes', and £1 in £5 goes elsewhere in the country; we also generate the highest amount of tax revenue per worker of any UK region, yet we rank 7th in spending per population. Although the popular view of many is that London gets everything it wants, we actually fund everyone else as well. And for the record, scapegoating London for its success merely shifts the view from why didn't other areas also become successful (some did - Bristol did well, Manchester did well, Cambridge did very well - but most didn't).

I get you don't like London, though I've never known the specifics of why. But it doesn't mean we lost Labour anything.

who could forget andy burham, brave mastermind of the "well i fully admit this bill is absolute garbage and you've refused to fix any of the problems with it but we'r going to vote it in anyway" strategy against the IPB

Britanno 2 wrote:

Questers wrote:but what if the opposition could do something like fight the government and make them u-turn on disgusting policies rather than tacitly approving of them

omg i feel like sous making these sarcy comments

An opposition can only cause a government U-turn if it rallies the public behind them. Corbyn is incapable of that.

Think of the U-turns this government has done so far: tax credits, forced academies etc. How many of them have been because of Corbyn> Tax credits was down to Tory rebels. Academies was down to Tory rebels.

I don't think that's true. sure the tory rebels went so far but the opposition -- corbyn and co at least -- have been fighting the tories every step of the way, they just have poor control of the PLP -- and that's not their fault.

i agree that he hasn't been the most competent leader, sure. definitely. but the party scheming behind his back has done immense damage, and its refusal to come alongside and fight austerity with him is even worse. some of it is down to the media though. imo when labour takes office again there should be a reckoning with fleet street. it would be great to see rupie and or his son in an english jail cell.

Britanno 2 wrote:

Questers wrote:but what if the opposition could do something like fight the government and make them u-turn on disgusting policies rather than tacitly approving of them

omg i feel like sous making these sarcy comments

An opposition can only cause a government U-turn if it rallies the public behind them. Corbyn is incapable of that.

Think of the U-turns this government has done so far: tax credits, forced academies etc. How many of them have been because of Corbyn> Tax credits was down to Tory rebels. Academies was down to Tory rebels.

i don't get it. what is your point? even since the government got a majority they have been on a power trip thinking they have absolute power and unbreakable mandate to do whatever the hell they want. the reason they failed due to tory rebels is because that is literally the only way to stop them.