UK Politics Thread III: Thready McThreadface (+ Jo Cox)

[Questers]

What relation does Margaret Thatcher have to Nicholas Romanov II?

[Vassenor]

What relation does Margaret Thatcher have to Nicholas Romanov II?

Clearly she's secretly Princess Anastasia.

[Wolfmanne2]

What relation does Margaret Thatcher have to Nicholas Romanov II?

None, her Dad was a green grocer until Asian immigrants killed them off!

[Lamadia II]

What relation does Margaret Thatcher have to Nicholas Romanov II?

What relation does the last Tsar have with UK politics, or with my post? Why post it? I am sure you can discuss him on his own thread, if you really want to.

[Rufford]

The desolation of these communities was, pardon the term of phrase, destiny.

When people talk about hitlers perfect nazi i alway think, fuck that lamadia is camerons perfect tory

[Elepis]

why was the destruction of unions essential. I take it you don't believe in organized labour

Trade unions did have quite a lot of power to unjustly bring the UK to a halt. The Winter of Discontent proved that and there was a lack of democratic accountability. Unfortunately, the Tories decided that instead of putting out the fires they would just demolish the building.

Yes the Unions could have been improved, but I doubt the war on the miners was motivated out of making the Unions more democratic. I am, personally, proud that the Unions had the power to Britain to a halt and bring down a government.

[Questers]

What relation does Margaret Thatcher have to Nicholas Romanov II?

What relation does the last Tsar have with UK politics, or with my post? Why post it? I am sure you can discuss him on his own thread, if you really want to.

It woz destiny wot did it.

[Elepis]

What relation does Margaret Thatcher have to Nicholas Romanov II?

Tyrants who enjoyed the suffering on the smallfolk?

[Questers]

you should put francis urquhart 4 no.10 in your sig btw moctina

[Wolfmanne2]

Trade unions did have quite a lot of power to unjustly bring the UK to a halt. The Winter of Discontent proved that and there was a lack of democratic accountability. Unfortunately, the Tories decided that instead of putting out the fires they would just demolish the building.

Yes the Unions could have been improved, but I doubt the war on the miners was motivated out of making the Unions more democratic. I am, personally, proud that the Unions had the power to Britain to a halt and bring down a government.

In my view trade unions represent a relatively privileged set of society. Most people do not have the luxury of belonging to an unionised industry and trade unions could make conditions worse for the non-unionised through unjust demands. It's why I personally applauded politicians like Renzi in Italy for taking on trade unions as well as big business.

[Souseiseki]

Yes the Unions could have been improved, but I doubt the war on the miners was motivated out of making the Unions more democratic. I am, personally, proud that the Unions had the power to Britain to a halt and bring down a government.

In my view trade unions represent a relatively privileged set of society. Most people do not have the luxury of belonging to an unionised industry and trade unions could make conditions worse for the non-unionised through unjust demands. It's why I personally applauded politicians like Renzi in Italy for taking on trade unions as well as big business.

hmm, perhaps the solution to this is in actual fact to unionize more workers so they can protect themselves. we can even go a step further and see if we can turn these unions into a political movement, some kind of.... labour party?

[Questers]

Unions are incredibly important.

Yes, if unions only represented heavy industry that'd be bad. But they didn't in 1984, and they don't today. They can be suited to a modern economy, but unionisation in Britain is pretty low.

[Questers]

The capitalist-class has had immense power since the dawn of commercialism in Britain.

The only balance to this is organised labour. That doesn't just mean a bunch of lads in a steel mill, it just means ordinary people with jobs having a sense of collective consciousness and solidarity. It can apply for any job (not the police or armed forces, obviously.)

[Philjia]

Absolutely not. You know nothing about my social class, you make presumptions from my political opinions, which is ridiculous.

You're from a wealthy part of Surrey, whose father went to Eton; you think the minors went on strike simply because they were lazy and wanted to destroy England; you dismiss people as 'dangerous communists' over nothing - if someone wanted to create a caricature of a Tory, they'd create you. You're either posting with tongue firmly in cheek, or you're just a full on troll.

Jacob Rees Mogg is a human being who exists. Never underestimate life's ability to become unsatirisable. Yes, I did just invent the word unsatirisable.

[Wolfmanne2]

Unions are incredibly important.

Yes, if unions only represented heavy industry that'd be bad. But they didn't in 1984, and they don't today. They can be suited to a modern economy, but unionisation in Britain is pretty low.

Absolutely, I agree. But many unions are too slow to do this. Unite and UNISON, the two biggest, are practically dodos and have to deal with hard left entryism which leads to them to push for stupid campaigns that are totally unrelated to worker's rights. The successful ones are those like USDAW, Community and GMB, who have modernised to meet the demands of modern day workers and don't dabble in what essentially amount to an advanced form of student politics. USDAW for instance recognises that most retail sector workers are within the flexible labour force and lack job security, so they've focused upon state-of-the-art support from call centres rather than traditional workplace organising.

In my view trade unions represent a relatively privileged set of society. Most people do not have the luxury of belonging to an unionised industry and trade unions could make conditions worse for the non-unionised through unjust demands. It's why I personally applauded politicians like Renzi in Italy for taking on trade unions as well as big business.

hmm, perhaps the solution to this is in actual fact to unionize more workers so they can protect themselves. we can even go a step further and see if we can turn these unions into a political movement, some kind of.... labour party?

Your sarcasm is unneeded, of course I agree with that notion. But the fact is workers aren't unionising and more often than not their vested interest is of a detriment to the party.

[Vassenor]

You're from a wealthy part of Surrey, whose father went to Eton; you think the minors went on strike simply because they were lazy and wanted to destroy England; you dismiss people as 'dangerous communists' over nothing - if someone wanted to create a caricature of a Tory, they'd create you. You're either posting with tongue firmly in cheek, or you're just a full on troll.

Jacob Rees Mogg is a human being who exists. Never underestimate life's ability to become unsatirisable. Yes, I did just invent the word unsatirisable.

Are you suggesting he is the living embodiment of Poe's Law?

[Souseiseki]

Your sarcasm is unneeded, of course I agree with that notion. But the fact is workers aren't unionising

in case you're wondering, yes, i did see your first draft.

is workers won't do what's in their own best interests i don't see how that's the ones that have's problem

and more often than not their vested interest is of a detriment to the party.

oh?

[Wolfmanne2]

The capitalist-class has had immense power since the dawn of commercialism in Britain.

The only balance to this is organised labour. That doesn't just mean a bunch of lads in a steel mill, it just means ordinary people with jobs having a sense of collective consciousness and solidarity. It can apply for any job (not the police or armed forces, obviously.)

My personal experience of trade unions is that there far too many with their own vested interests who are focused on playing internal politics. When they're on your side, they're fantastic. But if they can't be bothered and provide little support, it's the waste of a due.

[Hydesland]

You're from a wealthy part of Surrey, whose father went to Eton; you think the minors went on strike simply because they were lazy and wanted to destroy England; you dismiss people as 'dangerous communists' over nothing - if someone wanted to create a caricature of a Tory, they'd create you. You're either posting with tongue firmly in cheek, or you're just a full on troll.

Jacob Rees Mogg is a human being who exists. Never underestimate life's ability to become unsatirisable. Yes, I did just invent the word unsatirisable.

Jacob Rees Mogg would never say anything as obnoxious and blunt as Lamadia, he's well mannered and has tact.

[Questers]

The capitalist-class has had immense power since the dawn of commercialism in Britain.

The only balance to this is organised labour. That doesn't just mean a bunch of lads in a steel mill, it just means ordinary people with jobs having a sense of collective consciousness and solidarity. It can apply for any job (not the police or armed forces, obviously.)

My personal experience of trade unions is that there far too many with their own vested interests who are focused on playing internal politics. When they're on your side, they're fantastic. But if they can't be bothered and provide little support, it's the waste of a due.

fair

[Wolfmanne2]

Your sarcasm is unneeded, of course I agree with that notion. But the fact is workers aren't unionising

in case you're wondering, yes, i did see your first draft.

is workers won't do what's in their own best interests i don't see how that's the ones that have's problem

and more often than not their vested interest is of a detriment to the party.

oh?

They were responsible for the 35% strategy that lost us the election and they also caused the deselection of competent frontbencher for union lackeys. They do want to win, so they're not as bad as the Corbynistas, but they can be pretty destructive. The 35% strategy was very shortsighted and if you ask me I don't know why Labour wasn't pushing for at least 45%, but god forbid, try to wipe out the Tories and you're betraying principles or something. Even if Miliband won, a Labour majority delivered by the 35% strategy wouldn't be sustainable come 2020.

In my view trade unions represent a relatively privileged set of society. Most people do not have the luxury of belonging to an unionised industry and trade unions could make conditions worse for the non-unionised through unjust demands. It's why I personally applauded politicians like Renzi in Italy for taking on trade unions as well as big business.

hmm, perhaps the solution to this is in actual fact to unionize more workers so they can protect themselves. we can even go a step further and see if we can turn these unions into a political movement, some kind of.... labour party?

For the record, I'm not anti-unionist. Trade unions are important. There are plenty of unions I think are great. But others are just funny. Consider me more frustrated by the trade union movement than antipathic.

[Questers]

It's not that the Corbynistas don't want to win. I mean, come on. They think they are going to win, that's not the same thing.

I was very, very supportive of Corbyn at the start, and while I still support him, I'm warming down tbh.

[Lamadia II]

The trade unions had turned into their new from of class- totally disconnected from the normal working man, unaware of the struggles brought on by striking, hell-bend on controlling British politics.
Their means to do so were eradicated. The recent strikes show that they are still allowed to, and do, perform industrial action.Of course people should have the right to strike- it is a democratic liberty, given to every member of our workforce outside of police/military, however this does not mean these people should be used as ammunition for a labour war.

[Imperializt Russia]

It's not that the Corbynistas don't want to win. I mean, come on. They think they are going to win, that's not the same thing.

I was very, very supportive of Corbyn at the start, and while I still support him, I'm warming down tbh.

I'm also warming down, but much less due to Corbyn himself (he has continually made concessions on his more hardline views to the mainstream) and more due to just the absurd, baseless attacks on character on him, the Labour party, and indeed supporters of Labour and/or Corbyn.

"Oh Jesus, the left exists, we forgot! Quick! Fire and venom!"

[Eastfield Lodge]

The trade unions had turned into their new from of class- totally disconnected from the normal working man, unaware of the struggles brought on by striking, hell-bend on controlling British politics.
Their means to do so were eradicated. The recent strikes show that they are still allowed to, and do, perform industrial action.Of course people should have the right to strike- it is a democratic liberty, given to every member of our workforce outside of police/military, however this does not mean these people should be used as ammunition for a labour war.

I don't get what you want here? Get rid of any and all unions? But then how would workers organize industrial action?