UK Politics Thread III: Thready McThreadface (+ Jo Cox)

[The Huskar Social Union]

It is when you have a narrative to push.

Corbynites and Bernie supporters are very similar in some sectors, young, loud, obnoxious, unemployed, and they form some sort of cult of personality. It's so sad.

And uh that is what you call a uh eh hmm, sweeping generalisation.

[Risottia]

So Theresa May beat her competitor and will now head the Tory ship.

Is it just me or am I getting Thatcher 2,0 vibes? I got my popcorn ready that's to be sure.

I think the Thatcher comparisons are only based on her being a female Tory PM. Angela Merkel would be a more likely role model for Theresa May.

I don't think the Bundeskanzlerin would approve of this comparison, tbh.

[Imperializt Russia]

It is when you have a narrative to push.

Corbynites and Bernie supporters are very similar in some sectors, young, loud, obnoxious, unemployed, and they form some sort of cult of personality. It's so sad.

That stereotype exists. It's not actually common. It's just incredibly well-motivated.

[The Nihilistic view]

Every MP in the cabinet is elected. 0 of the commission are. Legislative primacy and a right to initiate legislation rests with MPS. Does not rest with the MEPs. We now have a method of recall for MPs by the public, commisioners don't. The differences are obvious for those not interested in yah-boo politics.

This is stuff that nobody gives a shit about when it happens in British politics. Our last commissioner had held a whole host of positions in British politics, despite never being an MP, but it's only when he sits on the EU commission that he's suddenly some terrible unelected tyrant.

Keep believing who has the power to begin legislation does not matter.

That is the reason nobody gives a shit. The power is held by the elected MPs who can block the Lords and force things through of their own after a time. That power in the EU is not help by MEPs, they can only act if the commission puts something in front of them.

[Vassenor]

This is stuff that nobody gives a shit about when it happens in British politics. Our last commissioner had held a whole host of positions in British politics, despite never being an MP, but it's only when he sits on the EU commission that he's suddenly some terrible unelected tyrant.

Keep believing who has the power to begin legislation does not matter.

That is the reason nobody gives a shit. The power is held by the elected MPs who can block the Lords and force things through of their own after a time. That power in the EU is not help by MEPs, they can only act if the commission puts something in front of them.

Citation please.

[Salandriagado]

The Commission is a better parallel of the Cabinet than it is the Commons

He is still correct: the Commission is composed of appointees with only the President drawn from the Parliament. The British Cabinet is entirely drawn from Parliament.

They don't have to be. That's pure coincidence. Also, they aren't: Jeremy Heywood isn't. Tina Stowell is, but isn't elected.

[Vassenor]

He is still correct: the Commission is composed of appointees with only the President drawn from the Parliament. The British Cabinet is entirely drawn from Parliament.

They don't have to be. That's pure coincidence. Also, they aren't: Jeremy Heywood isn't. Tina Stowell is, but isn't elected.

Peter Mandelson was on the cabinet while sitting in the Lords. In fact the whole reason he was given a peerage in the first place was to keep him around.

[The Nihilistic view]

Keep believing who has the power to begin legislation does not matter.

That is the reason nobody gives a shit. The power is held by the elected MPs who can block the Lords and force things through of their own after a time. That power in the EU is not help by MEPs, they can only act if the commission puts something in front of them.

Citation please.

Spends months debating a subject with numerous articles pages and other things provided. After the event asks for a citation. Lol

You either don't know very much on how political institutions work for somebody that hangs around a lot in politics threads discussing this type of thing. Or just fancy a bit of time wasting because you already know the answer.

[Questers]

Keep believing who has the power to begin legislation does not matter.

That is the reason nobody gives a shit. The power is held by the elected MPs who can block the Lords and force things through of their own after a time. That power in the EU is not help by MEPs, they can only act if the commission puts something in front of them.

Citation please.

I notice you didn't put the colours on.

Since this is your default response to things which you have no answer for, one imagines that it has only become so common that even copying and pasting from a wordpad file takes too much energy.

[The Nihilistic view]

He is still correct: the Commission is composed of appointees with only the President drawn from the Parliament. The British Cabinet is entirely drawn from Parliament.

They don't have to be. That's pure coincidence. Also, they aren't: Jeremy Heywood isn't. Tina Stowell is, but isn't elected.

Jeremy Haywood is not a member of the Cabinet. He is the head of the people that do the bidding of the Cabinet.

[Imperializt Russia]

Citation please.

I notice you didn't put the colours on.

Since this is your default response to things which you have no answer for, one imagines that it has only become so common that even copying and pasting from a wordpad file takes too much energy.

"Citation please" has a very different meaning from [citation needed] which is obviously parodying the Wikipedia content tag that basically means
"(suspected) baseless conjecture within".

[Vassenor]

It's more the double standard people have where it's OK for our government to do "undemocratic" things while the EU doing similar things is apparently the most evilest thing in the history of ever.

[Great Nepal]

I mean parliament can keep removing the commission until one of them puts forward bill it wants, refuse to approve a commission who won't, or refusing to discharge the budget until commission gives in. But clearly only thing that matters is de jure ability to directly introduce legislation; not pass or debate them mind you merely introduce them.

[Vassenor]

I mean parliament can keep removing the commission until one of them puts forward bill it wants, refuse to approve a commission who won't, or refusing to discharge the budget until commission gives in. But clearly only thing that matters is de jure ability to directly introduce legislation; not pass or debate them mind you merely introduce them.

While ignoring the fact that our own unelected chamber can introduce bills as well.

[San Lumen]

So when does May officially become Prime Minister tomorrow?

[Vassenor]

So when does May officially become Prime Minister tomorrow?

After Prime Minister's Questions.

[Questers]

I notice you didn't put the colours on.

Since this is your default response to things which you have no answer for, one imagines that it has only become so common that even copying and pasting from a wordpad file takes too much energy.

"Citation please" has a very different meaning from [citation needed] which is obviously parodying the Wikipedia content tag that basically means
"(suspected) baseless conjecture within".

Look.

There is a point at which it is obviously fair to ask for proof of something. There is a point where asking for proof in lieu of looking it up for yourself shows laziness to really participate in a debate. There is a point where asking for proof of something shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how discourse works. There is a point where asking for proof of things which are common knowledge, value-statements, or intuitively evident is done because it's a good way to intentionally piss someone off.

I don't know for sure which one Vassenor is but one doesn't need a citation to see that it is rarely, if ever, the first.

[Vassenor]

Or maybe it's because I want people to actually back up the arguments they're making rather than just hiding behind an endless stream of "take my word for it" and "it's not my job to educate you".

[Imperializt Russia]

Personally, I do it partly because I am lazy, but also because I see it as inherently of value to try and understand what angle the person is coming from to arrive at a conclusion I do not believe (the only circumstances under which anyone truly asks to see a source).

I could google the story myself and find any one of a number of debunks, or thoughtless reblogs. But if I see your source, I can (hopefully) see your thought process. Then work backwards.

[Vassenor]

And as a source for my "bills can be introduced in either House" remark, Here is the list from Hansard of all the bills debated in the Lords during the 2015-2016 session. All the bills marked [HL] were introduced in the Lords rather than the Commons.

[Freefall11111]

I'm already seeing Labourites online saying they miss Dave.

What the actual fuck is this?

[Ifreann]

I'm already seeing Labourites online saying they miss Dave.

What the actual fuck is this?

With the choice being between Andrea and Theresa, I'm starting to miss David as our leader.

At least we could laugh at how he fucked a pig's head. What have May and Leadsom fucked? Probably nothing as funny as a pig's head.

[Imperializt Russia]

I'm already seeing Labourites online saying they miss Dave.

What the actual fuck is this?

Compared to what we're getting? Dave was positively alright. Leaning a bit too hard on the "anyone can work to be a billionaire" and "the wealth will trickle down" but socially?

Dece. Flip-flopped on drugs to toe the party line so early on he was big into evidence-based policy until he realised he had to run the damned party.
I think he was never really able to reconcile that. Probably why he forced gay marriage through. His fuck-you to the party faithful and indeed, majority of MPs that either voted against or abstained.

Hell, ever since the American presidential race picked up Cruz, Rubio and Trump, I began to miss Bush, though that was partly due to modern islamophobia too.

[Questers]

It's easy to feel sorry for smooth-talking Conservative politicians but you just have to look at the effect of their policies tbh

[Geilinor]

Corbynites and Bernie supporters are very similar in some sectors, young, loud, obnoxious, unemployed, and they form some sort of cult of personality. It's so sad.

Lol. That's a hell of a generalisation. A lot of Corbyn supporters are members of unions.

The majority of union members think Corbyn is doing a bad job. http://election-data.co.uk/poll-of-trade-union-members